Cobra Vs. UH60 -- Controls.

[BLSmith2112 0]

Is it just me or does it seem like the Cobra cannot turn left or right. (Not to be confused with banking left or right). The UH60 doesn't seem to have this problem.

Also, with the UH60, is it true when it reaches higher speeds that it cannot 'turn' left or right and must bank?

[JdB 151]

Also, with the UH60, is it true when it reaches higher speeds that it cannot 'turn' left or right and must bank?

Was already that way in OFP

[dead meat 0]

According to the wiki (http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/ArmA:_Flying_Helicopters),

turning (not banking) a helicopter becomes impossible at high speed (not that high from my experience)

[BLSmith2112 0]

Alright, that's what I thought.

What about the Cobra not being able to "turn" at all? I keep trying but nothing happens. Its much easier trying to turn a uh60... its almost like you cant turn a cobra at all. Is it true you cant?

[frederf 0]

The word turn is very unhelpful. Turn means to change direction, but in 3D there are many ways to change direction.

Do you mean pitch, bank, yaw?

Do you mean change your compass azimuth?

[BLSmith2112 0]

YAW.

I tried discounting banking when I made the thread. I guess some may have gotten it confused.

[urbanwarrior 0]

i have also noticed the fact that the cobra is stupidly hard to fly, the uh60 however is quite nice and is really much more fun to throw about than the cobra, if you try to bank, it either noses down and crashes or it damn near barrel roles itself, it can turn around but its turning circle is huge, its also very difficult to be smooth with it, quite dissapointed in that, atleast i've got the uh60

[celery 8]

My clanmate S-0S.bay and I have made a special training mission for choppers, basically you have to fly from waypoint to waypoint at a very low altitude or you will die. After several dozen tries at an "impossible turn" we finally got better and now that kind of stuff is child's play. Chopper flying is difficult to learn, but the fruits of education are sweet!

If you need to turn at a high speed, roll your chopper almost sideways and pull up all the way, either with your joystick or [down] key.

[max power 21]

Also, I find that a hammerhead turn is an excellent maneover if you're not in direct AA threat because it allows you to put the target in your sights for a long time and it doesn't change your angle to the target very much. You can do a run down a street, fly away for a bit, do a hammerhead turn, and run back down the street, for instance. This type of turn give you a lot of yaw control initially because your speed is very low at the apex of the turn, allowing you to set up nicely. Once you dive to complete the maneover, you're back up to highspeed and low once again. Just make sure you don't pull this maneover in front of a shilka or something.

[dead meat 0]

That sounds interesting Celery...

Having no experience whatsoever in mission editing, I would really appreciate being able to play that mission of yours. I use a saitek x52 (but I'm still a noob) and I have found that flying a cobra is quite a challenge compared to all the other choppers : I often end up upside down or losing control alltogether...

In other words I feel like trying to control a flying epileptic elephant on acid if that can give you a better idea (it seems urbanwarrior has the same kind of difficulty )

Any chance of you uploading that mission celery (please please please)? Any advice on chopper flying for noobs is also welcome...

[ck-claw 1]

hey celery, is that the flightschool mission??

with the 14 waypoints and shilkas??

if so thats an excellent mission for helo pratice!

[celery 8]

The mission is named MCY Helitrainer I and can be found on the [MCY] MercenaryS -GAY BAR- server if you want to play or download it. The mission is pretty versatile, but because of advanced scripting and lots of bubble gum fixes, it has some bugs especially in spectating and outro.

Got it uploaded: click me!

The map is best played on multiplayer because of mission settings. You can make your own server to play it.

[Maddmatt 1]

The mission is named MCY Helitrainer I and can be found on the [MCY] MercenaryS -GAY BAR- server if you want to play or download it. The mission is pretty versatile, but because of advanced scripting and lots of bubble gum fixes, it has some bugs especially in spectating and outro.

Got it uploaded: click me!

The map is best played on multiplayer because of mission settings. You can make your own server to play it.

I think the name of the server scares away quite a few people .

[ck-claw 1]

thanks for the upload!

lol would upload it to our dedi server,except it's stuck on 1.02!!

[dead meat 0]

Yeah thx a lot celery. Will give it a try as soon as I get a chance

[Radic 0]

I notice there's a comment about changed helo controls in the latest German patch - I hope this fixes it as IMO from the demo they have helo control and/or flight model WRONG in ArmA (UH60 is closest to correct - MI17 is bunged and I'm not surprised to hear other types are wrong too) - they had it pretty damned good in OFP so I don't know why they buggered with it!!!

[Maddmatt 1]

I notice there's a comment about changed helo controls in the latest German patch - I hope this fixes it as IMO from the demo they have helo control and/or flight model WRONG in ArmA (UH60 is closest to correct - MI17 is bunged and I'm not surprised to hear other types are wrong too) - they had it pretty damned good in OFP so I don't know why they buggered with it!!!

Just because it's not easy doesn't make it unrealistic. It's far better than the OFP flight model. Practice.

[ck-claw 1]

agreed! practice!!

now in our clan we have to have a dedicated pilot/pilots!

as now not just any rambo can fly excellently!

[casum 0]

Can anyone recommend bindings for a stick? I want to use my cyborg evo with ArmA for flying copters, but I'm not sure what I should assign to stick twist (banking or pedals or turn?) or to the throttle control.

[celery 8]

I haven't got the throttle lever working in ArmA for its original purpose, so I gave it the valuable task of toggling zoom in and out, very handy for situational awareness and precision tasks. Use the twist for rudder, while in motion you won't be using it much and since the twist axis can really break your wrists, it's better to use it only when necessary.

[Radic 0]

I notice there's a comment about changed helo controls in the latest German patch - I hope this fixes it as IMO from the demo they have helo control and/or flight model WRONG in ArmA (UH60 is closest to correct - MI17 is bunged and I'm not surprised to hear other types are wrong too) - they had it pretty damned good in OFP so I don't know why they buggered with it!!!

Just because it's not easy doesn't make it unrealistic. It's far better than the OFP flight model. Practice.

Haha - and to the contrary - more difficult does not make it more realistic ;-)

I'm actually an aircraft mechanic by trade and have a fairly good understanding of how helicopter controls and aerodynamics work - I understand what you're saying and I do think the general control dynamics are very good and realistic - but as I've said - there are a few things - particularly to do with how the tail rotor systems operate - that are simply not right (in the demo at least) and this frustrates me. As I said - hopefully they'll get on top of it.

I can in fact fly both the Blackhawk and the MI17 in the demo quite competently including landing on buildings - just like the real thing it has been a matter of lots of time and practice - but still doesn't change the fact that it's (in the demo at least) NOT quite right.

[Shashman 0]

I agree that the Cobra is a pregnant yak to control in comparison to the Blackhawk. It doesn't make sense. The Blackhawk is a (comparatively) bulky chopper next to the Cobra, so it should be the other way around

[max power 21]

Well, for what it's worth, a cursory comparison of the information FAS.org has on the subject, the blackhawk uh60L has a better climb rate (almost twice!! and a better top speed, no doubt owing to its rotor design when compared to the AH-1F. I'm not sure about the 4 blade rotor cobras.. though, I'd imagine that their performance was much improved. 4 blades allow you to get more power to the purpose of propelling the aircraft, and allow you to have faster rotors if you decrease their length without running into compressability problems. This may account for the performance difference between the aircraft, but so may a lot of other factors including the test conditions, etc.

So, it's not unheard of that a larger aircraft will be able to outperform a smaller one, especially in terms of responsiveness and climb or accelleration performance. Most of this numbers have more to do with power loading and wing loading (in fixed wing aircraft, which I am more familiary with) and wing design. I think in rotor aircraft wingloading is called disc loading or something like that. It's a complicated subject, much too for the flight model in ArmA, I think, but it's not unheard of.

[Shashman 0]

But climb rate isn't the issue here. It's yaw that's posing a problem with the AH-1Z, whereas it appears to be better for the Blackhawk.

[max power 21]

You said that is was a pregnant yak compared to the uh60. Are you talking only about the yaw? Talk about an overstatement.