franze 196 Posted January 5, 2006 As we slowly but surely continue work with our OH-58D, there's a question that's bugged me ever since we got it in game and loaded up: What would the default loadout be? At first, we loaded it up with 2 Stingers and 2 Hellfires. Currently, it loads 7 HE rockets and 2 Hellfires. It has the capacity to load a .50 cal machine gun (port/left side only), M260 7 shot rocket pod, 2 Hellfires or 2 Stingers on either side. Add to that, rockets can be HE, MPSM, Flechette, Flare and Smoke rockets. And there's only two pylons to load them on. Now of course you can change your weapons next to a ammo truck if you need to, but the default loadout will naturally be the most used loadout since it takes time to go back and change your loadout. The Kiowa can do anti-infantry, light anti-armor, ground suppression, scout and reconnasiance roles, and weapon systems are generally used primarly as a defensive aid - the main attack being to call in artillery or air strikes to a target. What would your preferred defensive loadout be? Remember, you'll be facing everything from enemy helicopters to lone infantrymen with a PKM. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfbite 8 Posted January 5, 2006 Hmmm maybe a 50 cal and rockets Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AKM 0 Posted January 5, 2006 In Korea, the Americans learnt not to send up fighters without cannons, because when you ran out of missiles, the enemy still had his cannon left over. I'd like to see a fifty caliber on the OH-58D by default, the remaining pylon loadout is not as important to me as the ability to engage light vehicles and infantry constantly is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
franze 196 Posted January 5, 2006 That was Vietnam, but point taken. Even so, the .50 cal isn't a cannon. You won't be killing anything outside of infantry and jeeps with it - a Hind will just laugh at you. Still for a suppression role, its a pretty nice weapon to use. I wonder if that GAU-19 they were thinking about mounting ever came to pass... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gedis 0 Posted January 5, 2006 well... seeing much combat photos with 2 hellfires and 1 seven tube rocket pod, i would rather stick with this loadout heh, it seems you guys are near kiowas release... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AKM 0 Posted January 5, 2006 I am fully aware that the .50 caliber is not a automatic cannon, for example the 23mm mounted to the Mi-24P is or the 30mm on the AH-64. Quote[/b] ]That was Vietnam, but point taken. Vietnam and Korea in that case. The point here isn't history, but I do distinctly recall American fighters being sent aloft in Korea with only missiles, running out of missiles, and subsequently being shot down by MiG-17s. I am not an aviation expert though, would require more research which is not important. Quote[/b] ]You won't be killing anything outside of infantry and jeeps with it That's what I said. Sorry, in advance, if I'm misinterpreting what you've said in a more aggressive light than the comment was actually made in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
franze 196 Posted January 5, 2006 No offense meant or taken, I'm only expressing my personal point of view. The point I was trying to make about the 50 cal is that it's better than nothing, but as opposed to a real cannon, it doesn't seem like a whole lot - but then again, that's partly the point. (The GAU-19 I mentioned was simply a 3 barreled .50 cal gatling gun.) This is kind of off topic, but the fighters in Korea were almost entirely dependent on the .50 cal machine guns. Air to Air missile tech wasn't up to snuff until the mid-50s. Quote[/b] ]well... seeing much combat photos with 2 hellfires and 1 seven tube rocket pod, i would rather stick with this loadout heh, it seems you guys are near kiowas release... The only beef I have with the current loadout is: - It's pretty expressed anti-armor; 2 tanks and maybe one damaged if you're lucky doesn't make for a good tank killer! - No air defense; if you run into aircraft, you're hosed. This is why I do agree partially with AKM, because a .50 cal IS more in line with the assigned role of the aircraft as opposed to anti-armor or anti-aircraft. Trust me when I say this aircraft goes dead real quick when trying to perform the same missions as the Apache. Lastly, I'd like to hope we're nearing release but I won't give any guarentees on that. I'll have to do it soon because the OH-58 is serving as a testbed for a lot of scripting features that it probably doesn't need. The key holdup is getting the cockpit done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heatseeker 0 Posted January 5, 2006 Aint the Kiowa just a light bird? Not a gunship . I mean meant for scout and reconossaince missions mostly? Make it suck like the real thing does, i like ripping thru the BIS one with a MG . Obviously it shouldnt even try to perform like an Apache, its small, fast and agile but not the seat i would like to be in a area with MG nests, enemy armor or gunships . edit: buy a oh58 for $10 . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gedis 0 Posted January 5, 2006 no no... it's small, silent, almost always near apaches, but hidding behind trees or something, it's a secret spy in the battlefield and searching for enemy targets to be destroyed from other helicopters, but it doesn't mean this tiny spy can't destroy targets by it self... camo scheme Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heatseeker 0 Posted January 5, 2006 OK then.. scout, reconossaince and target aquisition but if it starts taking fire it better step back and call the big brother Apache . The 7 rocket mount and 50. cal should be enough for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cpt. FrostBite 0 Posted January 5, 2006 Since this bird is not armored (except for the crewseats) it's EXTREMELY vulnerable to ground fire. In Iraq kiowa's often flew just a few feet above the buildings to look for targets for infantry, but this is extremely dangerous. Quite a lot of kiowa's were shot down and pilots killed. It's weapons are just when the choppers sees a "target of oppertunity" (no other chopper is around and it's a good target) or to use it against a lightly armed enemy for defense purposes of when defending/supporting ground troops. It's by no means an attack helicopter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-HUNTER- 1 Posted January 5, 2006 Personally I would go with the Hellfire and 50cal version! But maybee it would be better to make all existing versions since you can switch ammo. Anyway, how much weight can the koiwa lift? Cuz kinda strange that they havent put somekind of minigun on there yet, or something 20mm cannon pod.... Cannot wait for this baby to be release, finally I can play proper helicopter attack missions! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VXR 9 Posted January 5, 2006 this is everything that can be mounted on.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfbite 8 Posted January 5, 2006 How about a pitbull dangling from a chain for anti infantry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TabloMaxos 0 Posted January 5, 2006 I believe the armament Vixer said is the best let's stick with realism. There is very good info about kiowa's at the page from which Vixer took the picture. http://www.cavalrypilot.com/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
franze 196 Posted January 5, 2006 @Heatseeker Yes, the Kiowa is just a light observation aircraft, however, the dilemma at hand is what would be the ideal defensive armament for the aircraft. It may be a while before other friendly aircraft can come to the Kiowa's aid, and therefore, a little bit of offensive punch can make all the difference. Also, don't tell the Kiowa pilots that you think the OH-58 sucks. @Cpt. Frostbite As far as I can ascertain, Kiowas are ideal for convoy escort and 'knife' fights. I guess that depends on who you ask. @manhunter We'd end up having around 10 variants + the other models (OH-58D Kiowa and OH-58D(I) KW) so the default loadout is really the only way to go. @Vixer We have all of those weapons availible to the aircraft in the same combinations. @Wolfbite They've already tried replacing the MMS with a guy carrying some binoculars, so why not? An image taken the other day to show a little progress - there's still a ways to go but we're getting closer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gedis 0 Posted January 5, 2006 Franze, some art woun't do harm(i think) i think Franze will be glad with as much info as can be possible to get about kiowas... kiowa crash in bosnia kiowa's blueprints OH-58 blueprints cockpits (so that kiowas would be even better then apache) site just about kiowa yup, pictures... kiowa's and other helicopter cockpits again some data/info kiowa part pictures in 2003 dammaged Kiowa have you ever been Kiowa addicted? check this site for KIOWAS some interior schemes kiowa videos something about how to transport helicopters on varios platforms sadly, very fast and deadly search on google ends... P.S. i'm already preparing to feel Kiowas, because Franze's & Xnods Apaches aren't so manueverable as they were after the release  joystick prepared comrades! manhunter09, this is search about Kiowas, not about Chinooks, so don't push me to... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-HUNTER- 1 Posted January 5, 2006 WOOOW there are some really GOOD links in there m8! Nice find! Also for other projects to use! RNLAF CH-47D for instance! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
franze 196 Posted January 5, 2006 @Gedis Thanks for the effort, but the majority of the information you found we already had access to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Serclaes 0 Posted January 5, 2006 The Kiowa looks quite good, nice work Personnally i would prefer the .50 Cal / FFAR loadout. Thats enough for light armored targets to soft and entrenched positions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
echo1 0 Posted January 5, 2006 Are you going to have the ability to change loadouts? That would solve alot of problems Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Commando84 0 Posted January 6, 2006 i think you could do a couple of different versions just like the bas kiowa warrior came in a couple of different versions but if i had to choose, i would go for 2 hellfires a minigun or a .50 cal on the center or side but maybe have a gun on center isn't realistic and then 14 ffars or something on pods at the sides. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
franze 196 Posted January 6, 2006 Are you going to have the ability to change loadouts? That would solve alot of problems Yes, we already have that. It can load whatever is necessary for a situation anytime it is nearby a BIS Ammo truck. Options are as Vixer posted, being 7 shot M260 rocket pods, M296 .50 cal ("My great grand-daddy's .50 cal" -- a KW pilot) on the port side, ATAS (Air-To-Air Stinger for those not in the know), and Hellfires. Additionally, rocket types are availible as they were for the AH-64, with the addition of Flare and Smoke rockets (Flare and Smoke can only be loaded on a single 7 shot pod, not dual pod config.) Quote[/b] ]i think you could do a couple of different versions just like the bas kiowa warrior came in a couple of different versions We have the following versions of the OH-58D availible: OH-58D Kiowa, Cold War era unarmed version (can be armed if necessary or for 'Prime Chance' scenarios - but no dynamic arming) OH-58D(I) Kiowa Warrior, Early '90s configuration. Armament options more limited - AGM-114A Hellfires, less rocket types availible. OH-58D® Kiowa Warrior, Modern configuration. Most powerful offensive platform of the three, better EW capability, more features. The I and R variants have dynamic arming, so it's redundant to have additional armament configurations in the editor. The default configs are customizable through init field commands, as with the AH-64. Quote[/b] ]i would go for 2 hellfires a minigun or a .50 cal on the center or side but maybe have a gun on center isn't realistic and then 14 ffars or something on pods at the sides. Two weapons only, please. The Kiowa only has two pylons, and not a whole lot of carrying weight. I'm kind of suprised at how popular the .50 cal + XYZ configuration is - I was expecting something more along the lines of 4 Stingers or 4 Hellfires. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-HUNTER- 1 Posted January 6, 2006 Ohh, which does bring us to the next question? Will you add proper .50 sounds? There are some videos arround of the Koiwa's doing dive attacks in Iraq, firing their mg. Also do you know how much the max weight of the weapons is? Just wondering... Still strange why they didnt mount a minigun like on the littlebirds.... And will the MMS have a nice rectangle and well HUD view? maybee got screeny, I hope I can monitor units from really far away before going into attack mode? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gedis 0 Posted January 6, 2006 i'm trying to create something about being a Kiowa Warrior pilot... Laser's Army pilots fits good with Franze's & Nodunit's Ah-64s, BIS Kiowa( planing to replase it with new MAS Kiowa:)), as well FK's army opened hummer... i'm trying to create something casual, i mean, pilots training... Franze, notice that .50cal is only on the left side and if Kiowa is equiped with Stingers, where is kiowa's air radar? in that ball with two shiny eyes? or Kiowa pilots aim through stinger missile's warhead sight? that i realy don't know... found some more video sites: airshow videos some us heli vids(need to see apache tree strike and kiowa auto rotation!!! again some vids some vids about us weapons using DU and again few vids u.s. propaganda again very much videos! again some vids enough those vids, i'm getting bored because of that propaganda... P.S. i think i know that old M2HB isn't it  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
