DarkLight 0 Posted May 9, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ruskiesrule @ 15 April 2003,20:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">At the end of the war, in my home city of Sunderland, all the warships fired off some round in celibration, but sombody forgot to tell the magazine men to send up blankes. Well, the shells came down in the middle of the city and killed some people. Can you imagen surviving the blitz, and the whole war for 6 years, and then being killed like that?<span id='postcolor'> Ppl killed by bullets that were fired in the sky? Doesn't look very likely to me, a bullet that gets shot all the way up and then drops down will hurt if it hits you but it won't kill you. With some luck it won't even penetrate your skin... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tex -USMC- 0 Posted May 9, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (loopy @ 09 May 2003,13:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">snip<span id='postcolor'> best story yet lol And here I was thinking that you Brits could only put together a decent riot when a soccer match is involved. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jinef 2 Posted May 9, 2003 Nothing like a good battering eh? Yeah the violence within the British Military is where the real action is, on our escape and evasion exercises we get a few knocks here and there. Great Story Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tovarish 0 Posted May 9, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ 09 May 2003,18:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ppl killed by bullets that were fired in the sky? Â Doesn't look very likely to me, a bullet that gets shot all the way up and then drops down will hurt if it hits you but it won't kill you. Â With some luck it won't even penetrate your skin...<span id='postcolor'> Elementary physics. An object going down has the exact same amount of energy as it did when it started going up. Yes, you can quite easily be killed by a bullet that was fired directly upwards as it falls back to earth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bn880 5 Posted May 9, 2003 2--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ 09 May 2003,172)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Elementary physics. An object going down has the exact same amount of energy as it did when it started going up. Yes, you can quite easily be killed by a bullet that was fired directly upwards as it falls back to earth.<span id='postcolor'> Elementary Physics of <insert name here> college... bullet going up travels faster than terminal velocity, comes down much slower. EDIT: Sorry Tovarish, but I think I know who told you this also... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tovarish 0 Posted May 9, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ 09 May 2003,23:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ 09 May 2003,17<!--emo&)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Elementary physics. An object going down has the exact same amount of energy as it did when it started going up. Yes, you can quite easily be killed by a bullet that was fired directly upwards as it falls back to earth.<span id='postcolor'> Elementary Physics of <insert name here> college... bullet going up travels faster than terminal velocity, comes down much slower.<span id='postcolor'> Lol maybe you got me there. I know Air resistance plays a role, but I didn't think the difference of potential energy at the peak of the object's trajectory would be significantly different. After all, this is the reason that it is illegal for people to fire guns to the sky in celebration (which is sort of a tradition in areas of the US with large latino populations) As you can see by these graphs potential and kinetic energy of an object are directly opposite... *edit* and My Prof for Physics was Neil Hamilton Good guy if a bit harsh with his lab standards, he gave into our pressure and let us go watch the Belarus vs. Canada Olympic hockey match in the school's bar instead of giving us a quiz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jinef 2 Posted May 9, 2003 But the terminal velocity of an aerodynamic bullet coming down is still very much enough to kill you. It's a bit like dropping a bullet off the Empire state building. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jinef 2 Posted May 9, 2003 Hmm, weird graphs. Apparently the bullets are bouncing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tovarish 0 Posted May 9, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jinef @ 09 May 2003,23:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hmm, weird graphs. Apparently the bullets are bouncing  <span id='postcolor'> LOL sorry, but not a lot of uni/college labs perform this sort of experiment with a bullet. Bouncing balls are usually standard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bn880 5 Posted May 9, 2003 I don't know why the graphs, you are simply showing that once energy is in speed and the other time (near top) the energy is in height. Point is, terminal velocity of bullets varies, some estimates are around 200MPh... We are not talking about the same energy, not at all, the energy the bullet has will be about 1/15th or so, due to air friction at terminal velocity. You don't care about potential energy since the air resistance will not be removed. lol, I mean, okay may still be deadly, but not the way some people told you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tovarish 0 Posted May 9, 2003 I understand your point bn880, and I concede that you are right, I'm just trying to illustrate that it would still likely kill you. I'd forgotten for a minute there that our physics lectures described a "perfect frictionless world" and that friction was eliminated as much as possible from our labs. So much for practicality (unless we go into space). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jinef 2 Posted May 9, 2003 Okay so we are agreed then, if you fire a 5.56 or other high velocity bullet in the air and your unlucky enough for it to hit you again (that would be funny) then you would not live to tell the tale....yes? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bn880 5 Posted May 9, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ 09 May 2003,17:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I understand your point bn880, and I concede that you are right, I'm just trying to illustrate that it would still likely kill you. I'd forgotten for a minute there that our physics lectures described a "perfect frictionless world" and that friction was eliminated as much as possible from our labs. So much for practicality (unless we go into space).<span id='postcolor'> Yeah ok, I remember our prof insisting that a bullet speed coming down will be the same as going up, (well maybe in the days of the catapult), as usual I grinned and didn't say anything. That was a bad lesson to oh say 60 people in the class... maybe that's why some soldiers are so afraid of bullets flying up that they fire at the people responsible. (helmets will do a fine job for this...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bn880 5 Posted May 9, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jinef @ 09 May 2003,17:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Okay so we are agreed then, if you fire a 5.56 or other high velocity bullet in the air and your unlucky enough for it to hit you again (that would be funny) then you would not live to tell the tale....yes?<span id='postcolor'> Pretty much so. If you are hit where you have no body armor (you wouldn't normally) or no helmet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jinef 2 Posted May 9, 2003 Good, back to the contradiction in terms then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bn880 5 Posted May 9, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jinef @ 09 May 2003,17:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Good, back to the contradiction in terms then.<span id='postcolor'> ? I was never at a contradiction of terms. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bn880 5 Posted May 9, 2003 Yeah right, this is no fight... just trying to clear up a misconception. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tex -USMC- 0 Posted May 10, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ 10 May 2003,01:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yeah right, this is no fight... just trying to clear up a misconception.<span id='postcolor'> I know, I just always start hearing 'Eye of the Tiger' in my head when I hear or see people arguing over mathematical concepts like this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLight 0 Posted May 10, 2003 Gimme some time and i'll show you guys that a bullet fired all the way up can not kill you... I'll have to find a certain book to show it so give me some time, i also need to translate it to english, this sux cuz my english sux but i'll give it a try... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLight 0 Posted May 10, 2003 Found the book, i'll try to translate it, don't expect too much. The book is a book about a Belgian radio program, during this program you could call to the radio station and ask a question about weird science stuff. After they've found a good question other ppl can call the station to say what they think is the truth. The goal is to make an expert call the station, this man or woman will then solve the whole 'mystery'. I'm not really fond of these programs, but hey, at least this situation shows us that it can be pretty helpful Ok, here we go... A bullet that gets shot all the way up, doesn't go back in the same way, we all know that the bullet goes all the way up, then it stops, and then it goes all the way down. Now we've all learned in school that the enery of the bullet at the liftoff is equal to the enery of the bullet when it comes down. I can't explain this much better cuz my english sucks but i suppose most of you know what i'm talking about. These laws about the enery are all true, HOWEVER, they are all true in theory, that means some things are not being thought of. When bullets go up, they are very stable, because bullets kinda turn in the air due to the shape of the barrel, right? When the bullet goes up he already loses some enery by the resistance of the air (i dunno what i need to call this, but you all know what i mean, right ), once he reaches his highest point the bullet loses a huge amount of enery. A bullet that reaches his highest point doesn't turn 180° and fall back down, no, the bullet just falls down with his 'side' pointing towards the ground. This creates a lot of extra resistance by the air. It has been proven that a bullet that weights 9 gram and who leaves with a speed of 3000km/h (!!! and who has 3000J kinetical enery (sorry for the spelling and translation) and if the bullet gets fired in a 89° angle, the bullet will fall down about 100m away from where it was fired from, by then, the bullet will have lost a huuuge amount of it's energy and it will have only 30 J enery left. Enough to hurt you, but absolutely not enough to cause serious damage, so trust me just for this once, it won't kill you... Once again, science has won... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-TU--33ker 0 Posted May 10, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ 09 May 2003,18:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ruskiesrule @ 15 April 2003,20:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">At the end of the war, in my home city of Sunderland, all the warships fired off some round in celibration, but sombody forgot to tell the magazine men to send up blankes. Well, the shells came down in the middle of the city and killed some people. Can you imagen surviving the blitz, and the whole war for 6 years, and then being killed like that?<span id='postcolor'> Ppl killed by bullets that were fired in the sky? Â Doesn't look very likely to me, a bullet that gets shot all the way up and then drops down will hurt if it hits you but it won't kill you. Â With some luck it won't even penetrate your skin...<span id='postcolor'> i don't think they were killed by "bullets". warships usually shoot grenades, and they usually explode when they hit something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jinef 2 Posted May 10, 2003 Military Stupidity - Contradiction in terms it was a lame and feeble attempt at a joke. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bn880 5 Posted May 11, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ 10 May 2003,05:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It has been proven that a bullet that weights 9 gram and who leaves with a speed of 3000km/h (!!! and who has 3000J kinetical enery (sorry for the spelling and translation) and if the bullet gets fired in a 89° angle, the bullet will fall down about 100m away from where it was fired from, by then, the bullet will have lost a huuuge amount of it's energy and it will have only 30 J enery left. Enough to hurt you, but absolutely not enough to cause serious damage, so trust me just for this once, it won't kill you... Once again, science has won...<span id='postcolor'> This is a really bad conclusion, it is how the energy is dissipated that matters. The bullet is sharp has a small contact area, this "proof" has valid numbers, quite a heavy bullet, and proves that the terminal velocity of the bullet is 300Km/h, 1/10th of starting speed. The problem is assuming a 9g lead object in the shape of a bullet doesn't travel through someones scull or torso (near neck). All the energy will be transferred into a single point, and no part of the human body takes that very well. Hit the right spot and you are toast. EDIT: I was bored, check this out: http://perpetualbeta.com/woifm/archive/002290.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
