Israel and the Palestinian

[morbid 0]

It seems that almost every day on the news there is another report of a Palestinian gunman/bomber shooting/blowing up people at nighclubs/cafes or on buses.

Then the Israelis retaliate by sending tanks/helicopters in to Palestinian settlements and destroying a radio station or security forces hq's, as well as bulldozing homes etc..

This has been the case for as long as I can remember (though reports are becoming more frequent).

What exactly is it all about?

What do the Palestinians want?

Why won't the Israelis give them it?

Can someone answer these questions?

I've tried looking around on the net, but to be honest I don't know my way around it too well, and any sites about this conflict that I have found seem to be biased towards one side or the other.

I try not to be biased towards one side or the other because I really honestly have little idea what the whole thing is about.

But being unbiased is hard when each day you hear about a Palestinian suicide bomber blowing up teenagers at nighclubs, or a gunman killing people at a party.

I'm not stupid enough to believe that the news reports are unbiased, I know they probably aren't.

Does anyone know a site I can go to to find the truth?

[Guest]

Territory, as most conflicts are about.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Well said, Monkey.

THe thing is, both parties seem to believe that the land they are fighting on is theirs.

Historical fact is, this land has changed ownership more than a dozen times in the last 3 millennia or so.

So this makes things kind of tricky.

[KingBeast 0]

One thing I do disagree on in the whole Pali/Israeli conflict is that both sides act like completel children.

If palestine sends in a suicide bomber, then each and every time without fail Israel gets in a strop and retaliates by bombing locations in Palestine, or taking land.

Israel should be far more responsible, and they should be setting an example.

If Israel retreated and gave back the land they had taken, then things may not be so bad as they are right now.

I still condemn the palestinian suicide bombers, but its hard to believe that they are 100% influenced by Arafat.

The reason the Israelis always do retaliate is because they blame every single occurence o nthe Palestinian leader, and therefore take their wrath out on the people of Palestine.

BBC News Article

[KingBeast 0]

Heres another link

BBC News Article

Displaced families

The view in Rafah depends on where you stand.

On the other side, I visit a Palestinian family which can now clearly see the military post across the flattened neighbourhood.

Some 600 Palestinians lost homes to Israeli bulldozers

Twenty-three people lived here, I was told - four different families. The army insists the houses were empty, abandoned after months of fighting.

That's news to Salam Jamah, who says he used to live here.

"The tractor and bulldozers destroyed all the houses," he tells me, "We were in here when Israel destroyed our belongings and our houses."

No matter what the future (final) agreement (with the Palestinians) would be, this will be our border with Egypt. (Palestinian leader Yasser) Arafat must be punished; after each incident, another two or three rows of houses must be razed."

Fuad says that would destroy the whole camp, and displace 30,000 people.

[morbid 0]

Ex-Ronin, do mean that Israel did not take the land from the Palesinians directly? That someone else did that and then the land change ownership until the Israel finally had it?

In that case, isn't Israels claim to the land much stronger than the Palestinians.

For the Palestinians to claim the land is rightfully theirs would be like people (who do not currently own land, or to whom it was not passed on to) claiming ownership of land because their ancient ancestors owned it, or even merely lived on it.

Anyway, I feel that terroirst attacks by the Palestinians is definately not the way to convince anyone to give them the land. It's just not right.

The Israelis are also wrong to kill innocent people or demolish homes (in what seems like mass punishment) in retaliation.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (morbid @ Jan. 19 2002,16:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ex-Ronin, do mean that Israel did not take the land from the Palesinians directly? That someone else did that and then the land change ownership until the Israel finally had it?

In that case, isn't Israels claim to the land much stronger than the Palestinians.

For the Palestinians to claim the land is rightfully theirs would be like people (who do not currently own land, or to whom it was not passed on to) claiming ownership of land because their ancient ancestors owned it, or even merely lived on it.

Anyway, I feel that terroirst attacks by the Palestinians is definately not the way to convince anyone to give them the land. It's just not right.

The Israelis are also wrong to kill innocent people or demolish homes (in what seems like mass punishment) in retaliation.<span id='postcolor'>

No.

What I mean is, this strip of land has been in the hands of almost everyone. It used to be Israeli land (like 3 millennia ago), then it became part of the Babylonian Empire, then the Egyptians had it, then the Greeks came along, then the Romans, then the Byzantine Empire, then the Ottoman's, after the Ottoman Empire collapsed (yay!) it was given to the people who lived there, namely the Arabs. Ok, now it starts getting dodgy. I think it became a British protectorate after WW2 for a while, but im not sure about that. After WW2, America and Britain decided the Israelis can live there and took it away from the Arabs. Now, the Arabs had been living there (under ottoman rule) for nearly half a millennium, you see. So it is kinda weird. Please note, I havent studied that period of history very well, nor the region, so i might have some minor/medium errors in there. but the general picture still holds.

[morbid 0]

I wouldn't worry about any errors there, it's more than I know already.

History isn't exactly my strong point. I was always more interested in science.

I'm just curious as to how the current Israel/Palestine situation came about.

[christophercles 0]

I had it all explained too me once, but then i forgot because it was so stupid and confusing.

Here is a site i found on it- http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/timelines/timelinepales.html

Keep in mind, that could be biased, since it comes from a palistine website, i dont know.

It looks like a big conflict today, one side (i dont know which) came and uzi'd a birthday party for a 12 yo girl, so the other side responded by shelling the other side with tanks.

[Guest]

isrealis is settler

and palestioana must free to do any thing

isrealis is kill our palestioanas every day with planes and tanks and all the future weapons in the world

just see here the truth from this sites

http://www.palestinehistory.com/

http://www.palestine-info.com/

and palestion only revenge for what zionists isrealis do

they dont fight for kill they fight for land and freedom

[foxer 0]

What about the ship full of guns and ammo ? Arafat gotta have something to do with that.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AHMAD @ Jan. 19 2002,20:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">isrealis is settler

and palestioana must free to do any thing

isrealis is kill our palestioanas every day with planes and tanks and all the future weapons in the world

just see here the truth from this sites

http://www.palestinehistory.com/

http://www.palestine-info.com/

and palestion only revenge for what zionists isrealis do

they dont fight for kill they fight for land and freedom<span id='postcolor'>

who the heck let YOU back in

[foxer 0]

AHMAD,you probably live in europe or north america somewhere right ?

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ Jan. 19 2002,20:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What about the ship full of guns and ammo ? Arafat gotta have something to do with that.<span id='postcolor'>

there is no proof for that.

and besides, arafat might have some control over the PLO, but he certainly doesnt control HAMAS (which he didnt let into the Palestinian Authority), Islamic Jihad and all these knobheads. Blaming everything on him is a load of bollox.

[Placebo 29]

Hi Ahmad

Bye Ahmad

[foxer 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ Jan. 19 2002,20:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What about the ship full of guns and ammo ? Arafat gotta have something to do with that.<span id='postcolor'>

there is no proof for that.

and besides, arafat might have some control over the PLO, but he certainly doesnt control HAMAS (which he didnt let into the Palestinian Authority), Islamic Jihad and all these knobheads. Blaming everything on him is a load of bollox.<span id='postcolor'>

If he can't control his people,or the people fighting for him ,how can he make a peace deal ?

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hi Ahmad

Bye Ahmad

<span id='postcolor'>

Heh! That was quick!

/me bows to the uber verwalter

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ Jan. 19 2002,20:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What about the ship full of guns and ammo ? Arafat gotta have something to do with that.<span id='postcolor'>

there is no proof for that.

and besides, arafat might have some control over the PLO, but he certainly doesnt control HAMAS (which he didnt let into the Palestinian Authority), Islamic Jihad and all these knobheads. Blaming everything on him is a load of bollox.<span id='postcolor'>

If he can't control his people,or the people fighting for him ,how can he make a peace deal ?<span id='postcolor'>

They are neither his people nor the people fighting for him.

Its as if you are saying, Bush can't be ruling the US because of the 51st State Militia in Missouri or something. The thing is that Arafat can not control everything in Palestine, nor can Bush control everything in the states, nor can Schroeder control everything in Germany. And the last two examples are countries that have existed for at least 60 yrs or more in a row, whereas Palestine never really had the chance to establish Police etc. properly.

The way I look at it, HAMAS and Islamic Jihad and all those wankers are both against the Palestinian Authority AND Israel. If it hadn't been for the Intifadah, they would have caused a civil war probably.

[Guest]

My understanding of it is this:

After the second world war, it was felt that the problem of Jewish persecution needed to be addressed. It was agreed that a Jewish nation would be set up where Israel is today.

Invariably, the people that were there got a bit miffed when they were in some cases bulldozed out of their homes. There was a short war some time in the 60s or 70s called the 6-Day war, where the Palestinians lost quite severely, using aged T-55s against American supplied Israeli tanks. (side-note: this is where a large amount of anger in the middle east aimed at the US comes from)

A peace treaty was signed up, where the Palestinians were banned from owning weaponry more powerful than assault rifles... no anti-tank or anti-air weapons were allowed. Because the people of Palestine felt that their leaders were unequipped to protect them, a number of terrorist groups sprung up. The rest you probably know from watching/reading the news.

I have one observation to make. After the First World War, Germany was crippled both economically and militarily. The country suffered enormous woes for 15 years or so, and Hitler offered them a bit of hope... I mean, hey, it couldn't get much worse could it? They let slide the whole Uebermensch thing in the hope that Germany could get back on its feet.

If a country loses a war, it should be helped to rebuild itself, rather than cast out and left to rot... this has time and time again proven to be a bad idea! This has happened in Palestine... I fell they have a valid case, as do the Israelis, but it will take huge amounts of time to undo the damage that has been done.