Upgrade AGP vs buy PCIe

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

First of all sorry for not posting very much these days, but I am very busy during work, so no time for websurfing!  

Anyhow, here comes the topic.

I think that most of us still work with AGP motherboards instead of PCIe. Looking at the prices of graphic cards I realise that PCIe is not only faster, but also cheaper AND most modern graphic wont be available for AGP!

Now I am stuck with a P4 3.0, 9800 Pro and 1 Gig of Ram and already need to choose whether I will have to buy a new PC during the next quarter. Or maybe I should try upgrading my system one last time with an AGP monster such as Ati's X850XT PE.

Ever thought about it? Stay with old AGP motherboard and upgrade or switch to PCIe instead?

[shadow 6]

I must say you've got quite a dilemma there.

If you change your motherboard to a type that support PCI-E you probably want one that has the newer socket which means a new CPU (and maybe new RAM modules) .... in short: a new pc. And considering you already have a decent CPU (P-IV 3GHz) it really does'nt make alot of sense to upgrade that part.

On the other hand you could buy a X800 or 6800-series card in AGP and hope it will last you untill you really want to upgrade that CPU.

I have the same CPU as you do and a GF6800gt in AGP. I have no plans on upgrading anything untill I want a new CPU. I'm hoping my CPU will be suficent for another 7-8 months. Then I will change motherboard, cpu and switch to a PCI-E graphics card.

If I were you and had the same plans for future upgrades I'd go with a mid-range card of the fastest series of the graphics-cards: GF6800gt or Ultra or X800pro or Xt in AGP for now.

Unless your wallet really mean your computer needs a complete upgrade. I don't know the price for the X850 you're talking about but I would'nt pay too much for a card today if I knew I would have to buy another one next time I upgrade my computer anyways.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

I get your point and I see you will actually be facing the same dilemma one day!

OF course a 6800gt will be sufficient for all games that will be published during christmas period and maybe also spring/summer 2006. But after that you will have to get some 1500 Euros together to buy yourself new system. So I agree, maybe I shouldnt spend 500 Euros now to survive the next 6 months!

[tankieboy 0]

I say upgrade now and send me your P4 3.0, 9800 Pro, 1 Gig Ram and AGP MB.

[Heatseeker 0]

3gig cpu, 1 gig of ram and a 6800 GT or ultra AGP will be suficient for a long time, it will be more than enough for a year or more, the diference betwean pci-e and agp8x is unoticeable, pci-e will only make a noticeable diference in future products.

I dont see any games coming out requiring anything close to those specs, i would recomend a 6800 GT/ultra over the current X800 ati series tough, better performance, compatbility with future games (MS3.0), etc.

I think buying a new AGP card for your system is still a good decision, but a 9800 pro should still be quite capable? Really depends on what games you plan to buy in the future .

[shadow 6]

That's Shader Model, not MicroSoft 3.0

[Heatseeker 0]

That's Shader Model, not MicroSoft 3.0

Indeed Shadow Moderator, indeed .

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Now I found out about another problem. Owning a Dell system (dont hit me) means having only a 250W power supply! But for a 6800Gt or X850XT PE I would need 350 at least!

[Acecombat 0]

Well just buy a new one and have it replaced.

Also i would recommend you buy a PCI-E card/board and total PC upgrade when OFP2 comes round , by that time the PCI-E cards/tech would have also matured plus prices would be down a bit and hopefully nvidia and ati would have cleared this gap that they have created between their releases , right now Ati is one step behind which leaves one guessing as to how their equivalent cards would perform against nvidias hence that evil indecision delimma strikes again .

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

You see... the problem is.... DELL is special, so special that only very few power supplies fit (same with Ram)  

As far as I could research it there is only one available that would fit, this one http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/viewproduct.php?show=T425D

[shadow 6]

You see... the problem is.... DELL is special, so special that only very few power supplies fit (same with Ram)  

As far as I could research it there is only one available that would fit, this one http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/viewproduct.php?show=T425D

That is a regular off the shelf PS. That company is ripping you off if they charge extra for that so-called "Dell-PS".

Dell's tower-pcs have regular ATX PS.

Even the diagram on their site shows the meassurments 150x86x140mm which is regular ATX.

edit: Now that I've seen the price-tag they put on it they are ripping you off. Buy your power supply elsewhere. I recommend Mist or Antec if you want a strong PS (but slightly noisy on idle) or Fortron/Source if sound is of more concern when idle. F/S is a little more noiser under very heavy load compared to Antec and Mist, other than that there is no practical difference.

I'm using a 350w and a 400w Fortron/Source PS in my two computers.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Quote[/b] ]Even the diagram on their site shows the meassurments 150x86x140mm which is regular ATX

You seem to be the person to talk to  

I will check this evening when I come home what the measurements are of my power supply!

I read a comment in a forum of someone who actually called the Dell helpline and they said that the pins and the ATX plug are organised differently.

Refering to the picture here he said the white -5 VDC pin does not exist in the plugs of other versions than those of dell!

But unfortunately that is where his comments end, so I dont know if he changed the supply at all and what the results were!

[shadow 6]

I'd take that with a grain of salt. I dont have a spare PS or a Dell handy so I can't verify. What I can tell you is that I've replaced power supplies on Dell Dimension(?) computers many times and not one customer have complained. I always use quality branded power supplies. Can't really say I've seen any missing leads on the ATX20 connectors.

Either way, just go with a regular branded ATX supply and you'll be fine.

Antec, Mist and Fortron/Source are my personal favs.

All three can have a high load on the 12V (which is the only relevant thing regarding video-cards). 18A is more than enough for a normal to big home-computer (4-6xHD,2xoptical drives and a X800XT/6800U). So 350w is more than enough (when choosing a real decent brand).

The reason I upgraded from 350w F/S to 400w F/S on my main computer was so that the current load is "less" for a stronger PS (F/S is slightly more noisy under heavy load) because I wanted less noise. 350w is more than I need and 400w is overkill, but I want my computer to be as quiet as possible.

edit: Found a Chieftec 300 "chieftec-watts" supply here at work. It has all 20 connectors connected (yes, the white one is there at the same place as your diagram).

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Okay, thanks!    I will try ... and give you feedback once I it is done. Anyhow, I need to make an aditional hole for the on/off switch of the power supply since Dell doesnt have it!

Oh, and BTW, yes it is a Dell Dimension 8300!

[shadow 6]

I need to make an aditional hole for the on/off switch of the power supply since Dell doesnt have it!

Oh, and BTW, yes it is a Dell Dimension 8300!

Hole for what?  

I've changed PS on the 4400,4500 and 8200-series among things. As far as I can tell the case is the same as your 8300. I never had to do anything with the case.

If you use F/S, Mist or Antec I can assure you you the power-switch on the PS is not in the way of anything. Even the dreaded Chieftec fits fine.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

It looks like it on the pic as if it could be in the way!  

Anyhow, I let you know once I have chosen a power supply and maybe you can then tell me whether you believe it is okay.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

I tried to transfer all parts from my Dell into a new midi tower, Unfortunately dell systems are build to last, which means many parts are kept together by plastic parts instead of screws. So I had to cut some connectors in order to get them out of the case. My experience was that a dell motherboard doesnt realy fit into a new case! And yes, it would have been possible to use a non DELL power supply for it!

After this failed attempt I put all parts back into the dell case. This was pretty hard because I had to cope with it without using screws. Actually I currently use rubber band to keep the cooler on top of the CPU. It sounds strange but currently it works. (I hope it wont blow up before I buy a new system).

I intent to change from Intel to Athlon and from Ati to Nvidia.

My plans are to get a

Asus A8N-SLI Premium

Athlon 64 3700+

Sharkoon SilentStorm 535 Watt (too much power but good ratings)

and probably a 7800GT

Do you have any alternative ideas for the motherboard and the energy supply?  

[shadow 6]

Sharkoon SilentStorm 535 Watt (too much power but good ratings)

Never heard of that brand but it sounds cheesy

There is no such thing as too much power, alright

The only interesting rating is how much Amps it can deliver on 12V. 18A and upwards is decent. If the supply is cheap its not really a 500W supply. Thats just the meassurement they reached when it lasted more than a second before it blew up in the lab.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Shadow, you perfectly helped me so far . You know any alternatives? Especially for the motherboard and the power supply? There are too many controversial benchmarks out there. I chose the sharkoon because it got good rating on Toms Hardware Guide (source ) and the Asus Premium mobo because it was rated best in a german gaming magazine!

BTW the power is

+3,3V 32 A

+5Vsb 2,5 A

+5V 32 A

+12V1 18 A

+12V2 18 A

+12V 34 A

-12V 0,8 A

[shadow 6]

I would'nt change the mobo brand. Asus is my #1 choice (Intel being #2 but you're going with AMD here).

Looks like the cheesy power-supply is decent enough. Only thing Tom's does'nt go into is how noisy it is. The only power-supplies I know of that use Papst fans (the only brand that have the same noise-level 14 days later) are Mist, Antec and Fortron/Source.

Hint: If the power-supply has user-adjustable rpm for the fans chances are the fans are noisy. No point in lowering the rpm on already silent fans...

Just for reference: my 13 month old F/S 400w supply is still idling at 23db and around 31db under heavy load. F/S usually only have one fan, but its a 120mm and its on the side "inside" the computer and not at the rear-end which means lower noise.