Albert Schweitzer 10 Posted September 18, 2005 Worse than I thought but happy Sir Opportunistic (Schröder) has lost and CDU is currently strongest Party! Just kidding! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhoCares 0 Posted September 18, 2005 As I can't imagine Black+Yellow+Green and from hearing Ms. Merkels fairly open statements I now pretty much expect a Great Coalition and I am not so pessimistic about such a solution; in fact I was and still am looking forward to it. Red+Yellow+Green is another theoretic option, but I don't see that either... Current (SAT1): SPD (red) 34.1% CDU (black) 35.6% Gruene (green) 8.2% FDP (yellow) 10.1% Links (red) 8.3% (Rest 3.7%) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denoir 0 Posted September 18, 2005 What about a left-left coalition? I.e SDP + Links + Grüne? That would add up to > 50%. (At least in Sweden, this is a regular type of coalition, i.e social democrats, commies and greens) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
der bastler 0 Posted September 18, 2005 So I definatly do not agree with you bastler, is there any advantage for the BRD? Or do I have to remember you, what happend to the last system, in which we had small parties all around... Back then it was a different setup. The system of the Wimarer Republik had for more bugs which could be exploited. But what do you think, would it be good to let Schily/Beckstein mess around with our basic civil rights? Wouldn't it be better to have at least some who remember what Schily --lawyer of RAF terrorists in the 80s-- has apparently forgotten? That would be the guys you've called "green fanatics" and "frustrated leftists". --- Just to add... 50 votes are declared nil and void because of wrong voting papers http://www.n-tv.de/581006.html Same applies for Dortmund, some of the approx. 90,000 mail voters have received wrong papers: http://www.tagesschau.de/aktuell....00.html And because a NPD politician passed away brain-dead (no joke, apoplexia), a part of Dresden will vote fourteen days later. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhoCares 0 Posted September 18, 2005 There are clear statements from all sides that there will be no coalition with the Linkspartei, from before the election as well as now after the election. Even the main representatives of the Linkspartei did say that. Lafontaine is a former chairman of the SPD and after leaving the former government from the position of a minister of finances in 1999, he was often a very vocal opponent of Schroeder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raptor 10 Posted September 18, 2005 What about a left-left coalition? I.e SDP + Links + Grüne? That would add up to > 50%. No, Schröder won't have a coalition with PDS.die Linke. Shame. Lol..CDU Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denoir 0 Posted September 18, 2005 I this because of their DDR history? Or because they have completely different political ideas? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raptor 10 Posted September 18, 2005 I this because of their DDR history? .... and ideas, but i think more the history part. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kavoven 4 Posted September 18, 2005 What about a left-left coalition? I.e SDP + Links + Grüne? That would add up to > 50%.(At least in Sweden, this is a regular type of coalition, i.e social democrats, commies and greens) That would be what I call: "The worst case of the worst cases" It would be even worse than CDU/SPD, because nobody will agree with anyone... And as all parties said: There will be no coalition with the communists. edit Quote[/b] ]I this because of their DDR history? Or because they have completely different political ideas? Partly yes, the PDS is the former SED, and partly because of the people running this party. They are not able to run anything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhoCares 0 Posted September 18, 2005 I this because of their DDR history? Or because they have completely different political ideas? I edited my previous post with some further reasons, but it's SED history is definatly another reason not to work with them. Furthermore, they see themselve just as a party in the opposition. Always when you heard them speaking they were mostly attacking the deed/ideas of the competitors but had little substantial programatic ideas themselve... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denoir 0 Posted September 18, 2005 Well, a CDU/SDP coalition might be interesting, but most likely you'll be looking at a completely paralyzed government. As I understand their reform ideas are completely different, which will translate to no reforms at all if they're in the same government. This was probably not the best turn of events for Germany.. Quote[/b] ]Furthermore, they see themselve just as a party in the opposition. Always when you heard them speaking they were mostly attacking the deed/ideas of the competitors but had little substantial programatic ideas themselve... If they have little ideas themselves, then including them would perhaps not be a bad move. They would just fill up the percentage and then remain irrelevant. How's the East-West division on that part? Does Links have a more solid supporter based in ex-East Germany? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denoir 0 Posted September 18, 2005 By the way, the 34/35 percentage..from the exit polls. Well, that's statistically very uncertain. Usually exit polls have a confidence of +-3 to 4 percentage points. So it is probably worth waiting for the votes to be counted before concluding that CDU got more votes than SDP. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vektorboson 8 Posted September 18, 2005 At least it is a small victory for civil rights as the voice of reason (Grüne, Linke) has gained some more weight. I'm completely against Beckstein and Schily, but Linke as voice of reason for civil rights?  You probably forgot, that the Linke still consists of former STASI-people? I don't see how they could improve our civil rights, after Dubya's adventures. I'm pretty pleased with the result, as it could bring more dynamics into our politics. It's a shame that FDP don't won't the traffic light coalition, and that black-yellow-green one is not a realistic option. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhoCares 0 Posted September 18, 2005 I have already posted about that Great Coalition in my first post in this thread (before the election somewhere around page 2). As I described there we already were in some kind of such a Great Coalition for the last seven years. But I think the way they could have to work together now would solve some of the paralysis of the last years... Oh and those numbers are no more just exit polls, but actual results from the faster counting regions   By now I'd expect that maybe 50-70% have already been counted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
der bastler 0 Posted September 18, 2005 You probably forgot, that the Linke still consists of former STASI-people? I don't see how they could improve our civil rights, after Dubya's adventures. Tell me about former STASI-people. And what about Angela Merkels, back in the GDR she was a FDJ secretary for agitation and propaganda... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kavoven 4 Posted September 18, 2005 You probably forgot, that the Linke still consists of former STASI-people? I don't see how they could improve our civil rights, after Dubya's adventures. Tell me about former STASI-people. And what about Angela Merkels, back in the GDR she was a FDJ secretary for agitation and propaganda... Well, it was her only way to get some "practise". I don't think she believed in the GDR. But the PDS members did and I really do not want to be governed by communists! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denoir 0 Posted September 18, 2005 What's the difference between CDU and SDP when it comes to EU politics? As a pro-EU, non-German EU citizen, is there a natural choice of who I would want to win? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vektorboson 8 Posted September 18, 2005 You probably forgot, that the Linke still consists of former STASI-people? I don't see how they could improve our civil rights, after Dubya's adventures. Tell me about former STASI-people. And what about Angela Merkels, back in the GDR she was a FDJ secretary for agitation and propaganda... Bisky, Gysi, Porsch... btw. we don't need to discuss about das Merkel, I'm not defending her. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redface 1 Posted September 18, 2005 You probably forgot, that the Linke still consists of former STASI-people? this is rather useless as an argument; during the fifties, West-Germany was shaped to a considerable extent by people who had held offices in the previous system as well. It amazes me how anything related to the former DDR-system is being stigmatized. The control, censures and restrictions exerted by the Stasi has its equivalent in the way a capitalist society floods its consumers with trash and noise (to quote Bernard Werber). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albert Schweitzer 10 Posted September 18, 2005 I this because of their DDR history? Or because they have completely different political ideas? It is because of Mr. Lafontaine. Schröder would create a coalition with everything and everyone just to stay in power, except if a guy named Lafontaine would run it. Lafontaine was once supposed to run the country together with Schröder, but he was unsatisfied with the power struggle in the SPD and decided to leave the party and the entire political stage. He criticised Schröder opportunism! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kavoven 4 Posted September 18, 2005 What's the difference between CDU and SDP when it comes to EU politics? As a pro-EU, non-German EU citizen, is there a natural choice of who I would want to win? I don't see one Both parties have the same views concerning the EU, I think the differences begin with outer EU countries... (Not really sure) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vektorboson 8 Posted September 18, 2005 this is rather useless as an argument; during the fifties, West-Germany was shaped to a considerable extent by people who had held offices in the previous system as well. It amazes me how anything related to the former DDR-system is being stigmatized. It amazes me, how the criminals from yesterday are gaining again ground, whereas their victims live in poverty and terror. I've spoken with some, I've visited the former main STASI-prison. You don't need to bring up the NSDAP-people, as I don't like them too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albert Schweitzer 10 Posted September 18, 2005 What's the difference between CDU and SDP when it comes to EU politics? As a pro-EU, non-German EU citizen, is there a natural choice of who I would want to win? CDU is a ultra capitalistic and Neo-Liberal Party SPD is a socialist party of the bureaucrats and unionists (and of course anti americans! Sorry, I am not in a good mood today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denoir 0 Posted September 18, 2005 What makes my stomach turn about the CDU is well.. Christlich-Demokratische Union. I really really dislike religion being mixed with politics. I'm sure these guys would be on the side that want a passage in the EU constitution saying that the "Union is based on Christian values". In Sweden at least the Christian Democrats are de facto religious nuts with amongst other things an anti-abortion, anti-gay etc agenda. They try hard to hide it, but are not very successful at doing so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kavoven 4 Posted September 18, 2005 What makes my stomach turn about the CDU is well.. Christlich-Demokratische Union. I really really dislike religion being mixed with politics. I'm sure these guys would be on the side that want a passage in the EU constitution saying that the "Union is based on Christian values". In Sweden at least the Christian Democrats are de facto religious nuts with amongst other things an anti-abortion, anti-gay etc agenda. They try hard to hide it, but are not very successful at doing so. They are not more related to the church than the greens. They called themselves like that 60 years ago and that is just the same trick the NSDAP used, to gather voters from the leftwing and the rightwing (Nationale == rightwing; sozialistische == leftwing). But things changed and today fewer people believe in god and the church, so perhaps they should change their name... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
