Religious Discussion Thread

[iNeo 0]

Hail Grim Fandango I agree with your thoughts about our own ways completely and that Christianity doesn't belong here, we were better off without it.

[Supah 0]

Gay couples shouldn't be allowed to adopt imo. In todays society, a child would get called alot of names under the sun if he/she were a child of a gay couple.

I am not really to fussed what religion people are, but i am weary about one particular religion, namely Islam.

I know a number of homosexual couples that make great parents to their adopted children. Their better parents then a lot of hetero sexual couples.

[Akira 0]

Hail Grim Fandango I agree with your thoughts about our own ways completely and that Christianity doesn't belong here, we were better off without it.

What of Islam? Hinduism? Shinto? Zen? Buddhism? Confucisium? Judaism?

Why just Christianity?

[SPQR 0]

I was raised as catholic, without being really fond of, but I recognize the learning of morality, love, ... to be short wisdom.

Having a scientific course, I recognized, with Biology, the miracle of life, how cells, genes, organs,... function, and with Physics the great known laws of the Universe, its immensity, its perfection, its mysteries,...

My point is : how could a so perfect universe, in the mathematical and biological sense, exist just thanks to a stroke of luck and chaos ? Who, What wrote the rules ?

This is why I believe of the possibility of a supreme force, something so great and infinite that any human mind could ever imagine, define and understand. Something as great and mysterious as the universe itself, if it's not the universe itself

But surely not a supreme hominoid being looking like the puny humans and caring only for them...

Moreover, how can any religion possess the ultimate truth ? Who can know ? After all, if one tells his religion is the Truth, then, all other religions become bullshit.

If christians were right, it would mean that 2/3+ of the world people believe in bullshit.

But all religions when followed with the heart of a scholar, and not the heart of a politician, seek wisdom, not supremacy.

As I said before,

Science must care of the HOW, it's a question about the Laws of the Universe

Religion must care for the WHY, a quest without ending for Mankind enlightment, not power, and it's not like a Hitch-hyker guide, written by ignorant men, 2000-3000 years ago, believing an eclipse was a divine action...

Wisdom seekers don't have to fight for their religion, they share their knowledge with others wisdom seekers

I would authorize civilian gay marriages, as it concerns all citizens considered as equals each other.

But nothing can force any religion to marry any kind of people (gay, human-ET, human-animal, plants,... minerals, whatever you want) if its contrary to their belief. It is as disrespectfull as those gainst gays whatevr the reasons.

P.S. : you, who believed in a so perfect divine earth... homosexuality exists in the animal world... so all the animal world commited sin... then how could this earth be perfect ?

Fighting homosexuality isn't wisdom, it's a question of fear, ignorance and stubbornness

But I ask the question about children adoption. I have no answer at all only questions about parental models, risks, education,...

For exemple, anti-adoption people often argue about the heterosexual couple, with the father and mother symbol as parental model.

However, what about single mother (or father, pretty rare, but that's the case of my brother) raising alone their children, the father, dead, divorced or fleeing with another person ? Should these children be withdrawn from their mother and given to a full couple ?

Things aren't so simple, black or white

[SFWanabe 0]

Gay couples shouldn't be allowed to adopt imo. In todays society, a child would get called alot of names under the sun if he/she were a child of a gay couple.

I am not really to fussed what religion people are, but i am weary about one particular religion, namely Islam.

I know a number of homosexual couples that make great parents to their adopted children. Their better parents then a lot of hetero sexual couples.

I agree with you supah. Also most people who are gay are not gay by choice so who are we to say they shouldnt be allowed to do this or that?

[Sophion-Black 0]

God created Adam and Eve NOT Adam and Adam, or Eve and Eve. homosexuals should have the right to be in HOLY bondage because it says it in the Holy Bible that you have given up being murderers, adulterers, thieves, homosexuals, liars, and many more (its kinda a long list) when you accepted Jesus as you Lord and Savor.

Quote[/b] ]

1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,  

1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.  

1Cr 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.  

hmm... it looked differant in the NIV version  

[SFWanabe 0]

I grew up knowing a loving God. A God who beileves that all of his children are equal in his eyes. Being homosexual is not a sin nor should anyone be treated as so for being homosexual no matter what the Holy Bible says.

[Akira 0]

I grew up knowing a loving God. A God who beileves that all of his children are equal in his eyes. Being homosexual is not a sin nor should anyone be treated as so for being homosexual no matter what the Holy Bible says.

Indeed. I always was taught as well that all humans are sinners, so why the distinction based on sexuality.

I was also taught "Do not judge least ye be judged."

[SFWanabe 0]

I beileve anyone who commits a sin from the 10 commandments is a sinner. The rest is just Roman Catholic church at work.

[Sophion-Black 0]

"Believing" has no place in science.

Hehe, well somebody said to me that science was a belief.

I would agree on that really since we (including me) believe so hard on science that science is the only true path to knowlage and understanding.

Science might not lead to every question in the universe but it has so far done pretty well compare to "other" religions.

Now, I'm not here to insult anyone here but thats what I believe

PS: This thread could be turning in to a BBQ so watch your fingers

Yes religious people like to say that. Mainly science scares the shit out of them. Science is based on factual evidence. Believing isnt. Science is the only true path to knowledge and understanding because it does not rely on making things up, unlike religion. It searches for explanation for occurances and phenomenons based on fact and understanding the processes at work. People put faith in science to solve their problems. That doesnt make them "believers" or their actions any kind of religion. Again, there is no place for believing in science. If people want to replace the word god with the word "science" in their bible its up to them but high unscientific of them. Science will in the end answer all questions once we know enough facts. Wether we as a species will still be around then is another thing.

you know eveything is answered by Him. you see this is what makes God so awsome, you don't know everything until He shows it to you. you may ask Him but might you may not hear an answer, but its there. that "still, small voice" is the one you're listening for. be a relegion as you wish but there are things science doesn't explain. how people survive certian incidents. or what's the end of the world going to be like. its been predicted, but in the Holy Bible it says "no man knows what year nor day nor hour the rapture will accour". many scientist believe its going to gou out with another bang, the colision of the milky way and andromida galaxy. but there are many other posibilities scientist put out there. the book of Revelation was writen by many metephores and similies, but it will (in my book) come true. War has already scrouded itself around our world. If you want to take a look at what will happen its here

remember, believe what you will, this is what I beleive

[SFWanabe 0]

Blindly beileving in something is not what God wants. If he wanted you to blindly beileve in just him he wouldnt have given you free will.

[iNeo 0]

Hail Grim Fandango I agree with your thoughts about our own ways completely and that Christianity doesn't belong here, we were better off without it.

What of Islam? Hinduism? Shinto? Zen? Buddhism? Confucisium? Judaism?

Why just Christianity?

Well, all those too, but it was Christians that happened to convert us, not the Confucisians or anyone else.

[Grim_Fandango 0]

Hail Grim Fandango I agree with your thoughts about our own ways completely and that Christianity doesn't belong here, we were better off without it.

What of Islam? Hinduism? Shinto? Zen? Buddhism? Confucisium? Judaism?

Why just Christianity?

Christianity concerns us the most since that is the religion that has been forced upon us as a people.

You could say that we heathens are a bit bitter about the subject of Christianity, but as we see it our ancestors have been burnt alive, tortured, or struck down by Christian swords while being made out to be "monsters" (werewolves, witches etc.) for believing in something other than the ruling Christians, so we do feel that we have a right to voice our disgust for what Christianity as an organisation has really done to our lands and to our people. 200 years may have passed, but I think anyone with this sort of past can relate to not wanting to forget atrocities like that. That definetely doesn't mean that we hate you or anyone else because you believe in what you believe in, but we do harbor a great deal of hatred for the religion of Christianity as an organisation.

Wether people are Christian, Jewish, Muslim or anything else is of no concern to us, they should do what they feel is right, as long as it isn't forced upon anyone else. But of course our choice of the old heathen religion means that we do not agree with the principles those religions prescribe. Also, religion forced upon people through state or otherwise is a dire form of oppression, especially seen through pagan eyes, as the heathen communities in Scandinavia still see their roots and religion being ridiculed as "mythical childrens tales" whilst Christianity gets its own class in school

Even so, I think the element of oppression has helped us more than it has damaged us. Granted, a lot of scandinavians are kept from their origins and old customs unless they study them on their own initiative, but those who do, like me (and I suspect iNeo), feel very much decieved and lied to, which makes us even more passionate in fighting for the return of our (as we see it) real religion, and like I said before, that has lead to Asetro being the fastest expanding religion at least in my country.

As a danish theologist has said; "900 years ago we embraced Christianity and we've been trying to get rid of it ever since.".

[SFWanabe 0]

So does Islam....

Quote[/b] ]Christianity concerns us the most since that is the religion that has been forced upon us as a people.

It wasnt forced upon me. Maybe my ancesters,but not me.

Quote[/b] ]"900 years ago we embraced Christianity and we've been trying to rid ourselves of it ever since.".

He may just be speaking for himself.

[Victor_S. 0]

I dont think you can say what god wants anyone to do. Though I have diffrent views than him I believe that he can believe in what he believes in however he wants .

[SFWanabe 0]

I agree. Bashing other people's religion is just asking for a flame war. So lets stop with the bashing.

[Rikki Tikki Tavi 0]

About homesexuals:

Leviticus 18:22, "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."

As a Christian (Presbyterian, PCA) that's what I believe. I still love them, and realize I sin as badly or worse than most (moreso than most). But I believe it's wrong.

[SFWanabe 0]

Yes well the bible has been rewritten over the years by the Catholic church (mostly) to serve the church's own ends.

[Victor_S. 0]

I agree I dont see how people can say that homosexuals will go to hell. There are worst sins than homosexuality and people seem to be able to forgive them.

[EiZei 0]

"Believing" has no place in science.

Hehe, well somebody said to me that science was a belief.

I would agree on that really since we (including me) believe so hard on science that science is the only true path to knowlage and understanding.

Science might not lead to every question in the universe but it has so far done pretty well compare to "other" religions.

Now, I'm not here to insult anyone here but thats what I believe

PS: This thread could be turning in to a BBQ so watch your fingers

Yes religious people like to say that. Mainly science scares the shit out of them. Science is based on factual evidence. Believing isnt. Science is the only true path to knowledge and understanding because it does not rely on making things up, unlike religion. It searches for explanation for occurances and phenomenons based on fact and understanding the processes at work. People put faith in science to solve their problems. That doesnt make them "believers" or their actions any kind of religion. Again, there is no place for believing in science. If people want to replace the word god with the word "science" in their bible its up to them but high unscientific of them. Science will in the end answer all questions once we know enough facts. Wether we as a species will still be around then is another thing.

you know eveything is answered by Him. you see this is what makes God so awsome, you don't know everything until He shows it to you. you may ask Him but might you may not hear an answer, but its there. that "still, small voice" is the one you're listening for. be a relegion as you wish but there are things science doesn't explain. how people survive certian incidents. or what's the end of the world going to be like. its been predicted, but in the Holy Bible it says "no man knows what year nor day nor hour the rapture will accour". many scientist believe its going to gou out with another bang, the colision of the milky way and andromida galaxy. but there are many other posibilities scientist put out there. the book of Revelation was writen by many metephores and similies, but it will (in my book) come true. War has already scrouded itself around our world. If you want to take a look at what will happen its here

remember, believe what you will, this is what I beleive

The rapture makes duke nukem forever pale by comparison when we are comparing vapourware. Nothing better than few vague references to war and such and there you have it - instant apocalypse.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrld.htm

Personally my distaste for just about any abrahamic religion came from reading the old testament and what happened to my ancestors.

[Grim_Fandango 0]

So does Islam....

Quote[/b] ]Christianity concerns us the most since that is the religion that has been forced upon us as a people.

It wasnt forced upon me. Maybe my ancesters,but not me.

Quote[/b] ]"900 years ago we embraced Christianity and we've been trying to rid ourselves of it ever since.".

He may just be speaking for himself.

Well I don't know where you're from, but of course I'm speaking from a local perspective. And you may not feel that Christianity has been forced upon you, but I definetely see it that way.

My country is officially defined as "Christian", all of our original Blót sites (Asetro ritual sites) have been either destroyed or churches have been built upon them, I've had Christianity stuffed down my throat in school, and I was told I wouldn't be given the same ammount of present at my nonfirmation party if I didn't get confirmed into Christianity like all the others.

To me, that's religious oppression. At least when all other religions are ignored and dismissed as make-belief. Never in my school years did I hear Asetro described as an actual belief, and never did I hear of the Edda or the principles it described. To me, that's a campaign of deception.

Regarding the quote, the man is a theologist, and he does know his history. The Danes are the least Christian people of Europe if you look at our rate of steady churchgoers which I think is lower than 3% in total. Also, he was of course referring to the reformation and the rise of protestantism, which in my oppinion was a testament both to the tyranny of the Catholic Church, but also that something was direly wrong somewhere. If you spoke out as a heathen back then you were slaughtered, so they went for the next best thing and redefined the religion.

But even so, these people who have never even read the Bible, but just had it stuffed down their throat through public education, still agree to pay 3% of their taxes to the church.

I don't know how many of them even know that that is a choice they can make for themselves.

It might be subtle and it might not be soldiers on the streets with M-16s in their hands and crosses on their shoulderpatches, but in my oppinion it's definetely oppression, even if it is "only" spiritual and intellectual.

[SFWanabe 0]

Like I said its the Roman Catholic church at work. Most of this homosexual crap came up during the inquisition,because they beileved homosexuals were heretics.

Quote[/b] ]Well I don't know where you're from, but of course I'm speaking from a local perspective. And you may not feel that Christianity has been forced upon you, but I definetely see it that way.

Well then your seeing it wrong. Now could please stop with the bashing? Your arguement has no logic and it's only going to start a flame war.

[Rikki Tikki Tavi 0]

Victor - I believe any sin, no matter how small, makes you unworthy of God, and condemns you to Hell. And Christ is the only way out of that.

[Messiah 2]

I'm very much an agnostic here... don't believe a word of it currently, but if a big white bloke with a long flowing beard comes down from the heavens and pronounces himself as god, then i'll start believing pretty damn quick...

seeing is believing in my world

also have had a poor experience of religion to a slightly loopy brother who was spoken to by god, who told him to leave his family, sell all is wordly possesions and move to albania... i shit you not - thats not religion, its madness.

[SFWanabe 0]

Victor - I believe any sin, no matter how small, makes you unworthy of God, and condemns you to Hell. And Christ is the only way out of that.

Yes well the there only 10 sins in my book and those sins are written on the 10 commandments and no where on those 10 commandments does it say the being gay is a sin.