Black Hawk Down

[Dr Bibber 0]

You are right about that, i was being a little bit sarcastic.

But being influenced by some other "hollywoodized" stupid movie is just plain sad

[Wobble 1]

I know what ya mean.. Enima at the gates.. Perl Harbor AWFUL! I hear Blackhawk down is more of a documentary than it is a movie... no love story.. no lesson to be learned.. just a really good and graphic reinactment of what happened..

I hope to see it this week.

[Oligo 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ Jan. 24 2002,22:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1: Japan STARTED the war by launching a attack without declaring war.. which is wrong..

2: ya ever hear what the COMMIN treatment for POWs of teh Japanese? beheadings (for fun) and using them for bayonet practice was the norm, not the exception..

dropping the Nukes saved more people than they killed.. seeing as how the entire contanent of Japan was brainwashed by the emporor to kill themselves before surrender..<span id='postcolor'>

WTF?! Are you actually trying to explain that dropping the nukes was the right thing to do? Man, you're talking about the most horrible atrocity that has ever happened on Earth! Nukes are way too horrible weapons ever to be used. First you blow the crap out of thousands of people and injure countless others. Then you poison the land with radiation, effectively killing people for years and years. You are actually killing and maiming unborn children. Your atrocity will have an effect for generations and generations...

Wobble, even you cannot be such a blind yank that you try to justify that. Just admit that this one thing U.S. did was wrong.

[The Ferret 0]

And it got even worse...that radiation awoke Godzeera!

Not to mention Gamera...and it stunted the growth of those two little women who ride around on Mothra!

How many times must Godzeera trample Tokyo before those poor bastard Japs will have paid for bombing Pearl Harbor?

The Japs said they were solly, and I for one accept their apology!

Let's get that big lizard back to Monster Island were he belongs.

[Placebo 29]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ Jan. 25 2002,10:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Man, you're talking about the most horrible atrocity that has ever happened on Earth!<span id='postcolor'>

Personally I consider the Holocaust the most horrible atrocity that has ever happened, but I guess we're all entitled to our opinions.

[Pete 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @ Jan. 26 2002,01:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Man, you're talking about the most horrible atrocity that has ever happened on Earth!<span id='postcolor'>

Personally I consider the Holocaust the most horrible atrocity that has ever happened, but I guess we're all entitled to our opinions.<span id='postcolor'>

agreed....but stalin did a lot more bad things during/after the war.

the nazis holocaust is very horrible, specially when they killed to exterminate a whole "group" of people totally

the red khmeres (sp?) were bad, and they were stopped only when the vietnamese got in and kicked them after the vietnam war, other wise they too would have gone more "kills" than hitler.

those 3 are the top 3 i quess.

the 2 nukes were horrible, but at the time "somewhat" justified, wrong targets tho...but back then it was the normal thing to do when you kill civilians.

im in no way defending the decision to nuke tho, only saying that of many bads they werent the worst.

[Daishi 0]

I am not an American, so whatever I said should not be taken as american-biased.

The World War is a massive tragedy of humanity. In a war, there is no such thing as right. Everything is wrong. You fight to kill the enemy.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki are just sacrifices for peace. If the A-bombs were not used, if America and her Allies were to continue with Operation Olympic and invade Japan, I doubt Japan would exist as it does today.

Japanese were known to be suicidal, civilians and military personel alike. Just look at the Battles for Okinawa and Iwo Jima. Casualties were incredibly high for both sides, and the civilians would rather die than surrender to the "imperialist" Allies.

Using those battles as a good predictor of what will happen if the Allies were to invade Japan, the casualties of World War 2 can easily double and Japan would be nothing but scorch earth.

As for whether it is right or wrong to use the A-bomb, I have no answers. We do have benefit of the hindsight, President Harry Truman doesn't. Luckily, it turned out to be a good decision and the world had peace (after the surrender of Japan). To judge the act, just look at the result: Japan is the 2nd largest economy of the world (for now). It is one of the most modern society, and its global standing is similarly high. If an invasion took place, rather than the A-bombs, would Japan be where it is today?

[Placebo 29]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Daishi @ Jan. 26 2002,08:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The World War is a massive tragedy of humanity. In a war, there is no such thing as right. Everything is wrong. You fight to kill the enemy.<span id='postcolor'>

I agree completely, 50-70M dead depending on who/what you read, there can be no joy taken from that, no victory....

WWII was a defeat for mankind, a great loss of humanity that needn't have happened, Hitler and the Nazis would never have gotten into power if we hadn't beaten Germany into the depths of despair with the Versailles treaty.

Just my tuppence

[Guest]

Well if hitler did not come to power, stalin would have marched on europe.

[Placebo 29]

What do you base that statement on? Personally I was always of the impression he had enough work on his hands beating his own people into submission, that and having anyone/everyone executed that his paranoid mind told him was up to no good.........

[Blink Dog 0]

Just saw BHD today. I was pleasently impressed. I thought going into it that it would be like Pearl Harbour with happy american ending, but I was wrong. I especially liked the mini guns.

[Oligo 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Daishi @ Jan. 26 2002,09:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hiroshima and Nagasaki are just sacrifices for peace. If the A-bombs were not used, if America and her Allies were to continue with Operation Olympic and invade Japan, I doubt Japan would exist as it does today.

Japanese were known to be suicidal, civilians and military personel alike. Just look at the Battles for Okinawa and Iwo Jima. Casualties were incredibly high for both sides, and the civilians would rather die than surrender to the "imperialist" Allies.

Using those battles as a good predictor of what will happen if the Allies were to invade Japan, the casualties of World War 2 can easily double and Japan would be nothing but scorch earth.

As for whether it is right or wrong to use the A-bomb, I have no answers. We do have benefit of the hindsight, President Harry Truman doesn't. Luckily, it turned out to be a good decision and the world had peace (after the surrender of Japan). To judge the act, just look at the result: Japan is the 2nd largest economy of the world (for now). It is one of the most modern society, and its global standing is similarly high. If an invasion took place, rather than the A-bombs, would Japan be where it is today?<span id='postcolor'>

Yeah, it also seems that the Sep. 11. thingy has only produced good results, since Bush finally got his head out of his a*** and maybe will start to think a little more globally. If this crap didn't go down, you can be sure that he would have just carried on giving the rest of the world the finger. I'm still sure, though, that anybody who bought it under the towers doesn't see things quite like that. Or their family.

I'm just trying to say that the A-bomb is very much unlike any other weapon we have. It is quite old already, but we haven't managed to come up with anything quite as horrible for a long time. Now that it has been used in anger, the genie is out of the bottle and it's just a little easier to use it in the future. You know, just so that you can do some good, save some lives.

The holocaust was bad, but it consisted of many atrocities coming in succession. The a-bombs were the worst single acts of inhumanity in the history of our species.

[Guest]

Alot of countries are using the excuse of "We're Fighting them because the're terrorists" but they never said this before, such as india and pakistan.

[Frizbee 0]

I'm not American, but in my opinion The United States dropping the nuclear weapons on Japan, although horrible, was necessary to prevent the deaths of millions of allied servicemen and women, and countless more civilians at the hands of the Japanese.

I have no doubt that the war would have lasted many more bloody years, with an even higher death toll had the Japanese not been bombed.

It also served as a warning to everyone just how terrible such weapons were, perhaps preventing a much more disasterous use of them during the cold war..

just think what would have happened had Russia or the US thought "Well I can always launch these...."

[Wobble 1]

WTF?! Are you actually trying to explain that dropping the nukes was the right thing to do?

Yes, seeing as how if not then its likley Japan would not have surrendered, and the emp ("god") had instructed the people of the Empire to die fighting or commit suicide before allowing capture or defeat.. and from what was seen in the island hopping up to that point it was obvious they would do exactly that..  evern man woman and child in the Japanese empire was ordered by their GOD to either die fighting or kill themselves.. and they would have done it... needless to say the number of dead would be well in excess of how many people the 2 nukes would EVER kill.

Man, you're talking about the most horrible atrocity that has ever happened on Earth!

whats horrible is the fact that given the situation, it was the best thing to do (for both sides).. thats what is horrible.

Wobble, even you cannot be such a blind yank that you try to justify that. Just admit that this one thing U.S. did was wrong

its an uncontestable fact that the dropping of the Atomic bombs saved more people.. allied and Japanese than continueing the war.. so no the US was not wrong in its decision to use them.

sucks to be proven wrong by a "blind yank" doesent it

The a-bombs were the worst single acts of inhumanity in the history of our species.

in hind sight it was the best thing that could have happened to Japan given the circumstances... it offered the lest possable loss of life..  and compared to the Japanese atrocities on its POWs, the holocaust, the Stalin purges.. as far as being "inhumain" it doesent even come close..  it was done for military reasons.. with the goal of winning the war.. the Japanese atrocities were done... well pretty much for fun.. the holocause was a sadistic attempt to rid an entire race from the earth, and the stalin purges were ruthless foundless murders carried out under the sadistic and practically insane whimes of a paranoid madman dictator.

lets also not forget that the target cities (Hirshima and Nagasaki) were targeted because they were massive production centers, NOT because of population..

the US could have just as easily dropped the bombs on more densly populated cities.. INCLUDING TOKYO, abd vaporized the emporer...

and as a final though: more civilians were killed in the Drezden(sp) firestorm when the RAF firebombed it than died in either Hiroshima or Nagasaki..

and all sides bombed civilian targets in WW2.. so dont dare try to make the US some sort of villian for doing it.. hipocritic ass.

[Oligo 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ Jan. 28 2002,09:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes, seeing as how if not then its likley Japan would not have surrendered, and the emp ("god") had instructed the people of the Empire to die fighting or commit suicide before allowing capture or defeat.. and from what was seen in the island hopping up to that point it was obvious they would do exactly that.. evern man woman and child in the Japanese empire was ordered by their GOD to either die fighting or kill themselves.. and they would have done it... needless to say the number of dead would be well in excess of how many people the 2 nukes would EVER kill.

<span id='postcolor'>

I think you have all proven the point about them dying rather than surrendering. But why did you need them to surrender? Why not make peace? You already got the islands back. Just make peace and let them tackle their shit on their four islands, surrounded by hostile nations. They would have fallen in no-time and kicked their "god" out.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">its an uncontestable fact that the dropping of the Atomic bombs saved more people.. allied and Japanese than continueing the war.. so no the US was not wrong in its decision to use them.

<span id='postcolor'>

I wonder how many people would have been saved by just containing the morons on their island. No man, the reason you used the a-bombs was that you wanted the war over as soon as possible so that your boyz could go home to eat some apple pie. Well worth wasting some civvies.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">sucks to be proven wrong by a "blind yank" doesent it

<span id='postcolor'>

The reason I called you a "blind yank" (and I apologize for that) is because I doubt that you can come up with even one thing the U.S. has done wrong. So can you publicly point out even one such thing of your country? To show good faith, I'll reciprocate: Finland (my country) should have stood more firmly and not given even those few jews to the nazis. It's a shame our country did such a bad thing.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">in hind sight it was the best thing that could have happened to Japan given the circumstances... it offered the lest possable loss of life.. and compared to the Japanese atrocities on its POWs, the holocaust, the Stalin purges.. as far as being "inhumain" it doesent even come close.. it was done for military reasons.. with the goal of winning the war.. the Japanese atrocities were done... well pretty much for fun.. the holocause was a sadistic attempt to rid an entire race from the earth, and the stalin purges were ruthless foundless murders carried out under the sadistic and practically insane whimes of a paranoid madman dictator.

<span id='postcolor'>

You're right in pointing out how evil those people were. We all agree on that. But dropping nukes on people (civvies or soldiers) is still wrong. It is an atrocity and no good intentions can justify it. I bet Hitler thought that he was doing good with his shit.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">and as a final though: more civilians were killed in the Drezden(sp) firestorm when the RAF firebombed it than died in either Hiroshima or Nagasaki..

and all sides bombed civilian targets in WW2.. so dont dare try to make the US some sort of villian for doing it.. hipocritic ass.

<span id='postcolor'>

The firebombing of Dresden was an atrocity as well. So was bombing London and Stalingrad and Helsinki and whatever. Everybody who did it IS on some level a villain (includes my country). The point is to remember what you did and try to avoid it in the future. I'm not trying to be a hipocrite, but your country is also bad (although not the worst).

[Fenix83 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ Jan. 24 2002,22:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So?...the US is responsible for killing more then a Ë million Iraqi childeren.

opinion courtesy of Saddam propagenda and no real commin sense..

think the Americans are sick! How can they cheer and be happy at a sight of dropping a nuke on Japan and kill thousands of people and trying to destroy their infrastructure?

well.. lets see

1: Japan STARTED the war by launching a attack without declaring war.. which is wrong..

2: ya ever hear what the COMMIN treatment for POWs of teh Japanese? beheadings (for fun) and using them for bayonet practice was the norm, not the exception..<span id='postcolor'>

In June 1997, after 7 years of criminal sanctions, the United Nations, the UNICEF, the WHO (the World Health Organization) and of WFP (World Food Program) estimated at 1,2 million the number of deaths, because of the shortage of food and drugs, including 750.000 children of less than 5 years old.

The first secretary Madeleine Albreight said, when she knew that :

the price is worth paying

If I knew that my government had caused that, I would not be proud to be an american...

for your culture concerning Japan: You do not know who realy directed Japan. You think simply that there were the nice ones (allies) and the malicious ones (Bloody japs). To tell the truth, the emperor did not direct any more Japan, they were his militarist ministers who decided to enter in war for mainly economic reasons.

Question: If the Japanese people were suicidal why did they abdicate after two bombs nuclear power?

The answer: simply because American had needs to test their bomb on a real city!

Et paf !

Je detestes je plus en plus les ricains

(i'm sure that ran will know what i want to say)

[christophercles 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Dr Bibber @ Jan. 25 2002,02:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">OMFG, how can people be influenced by just some other dumbass hollywood movie?

This has to be the most pathetic thing i have ever seen on the net, even more pathetic then l337 talk

"Hey the somalis shot down american helicopters that were trying to detain a criminal, they deserve what they get. "

So?...the US is responsible for killing more then a Ë million Iraqi childeren.

People like you need to be removed from the gene pool.<span id='postcolor'>

U fool!!! so i deserve to be removed from the gene pool, because i think that people shouldnt shoot at others while they are detaining a criminal? ok, next time a guy is raping you in the ass, it should be allowable that the cops are allowed to be detained from coming to your rescue?

It isnt a "dumbass hollywood movie" im being influenced by, its the facts of the real life event.

Who brought up iraq?? anyway, if suddam hadnt leaked information that they were hiding scuds in hospitals and in schoolyards, those children wouldnt have had to die.

[Fenix83 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (christophercles @ Jan. 28 2002,13:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">OMFG, how can people be influenced by just some other dumbass hollywood movie?

This has to be the most pathetic thing i have ever seen on the net, even more pathetic then l337 talk

"Hey the somalis shot down american helicopters that were trying to detain a criminal, they deserve what they get. "

So?...the US is responsible for killing more then a Ë million Iraqi childeren.

People like you need to be removed from the gene pool.<span id='postcolor'>

U fool!!! so i deserve to be removed from the gene pool, because i think that people shouldnt shoot at others while they are detaining a criminal? ok, next time a guy is raping you in the ass, it should be allowable that the cops are allowed to be detained from coming to your rescue?

It isnt a "dumbass hollywood movie" im being influenced by, its the facts of the real life event.

Who brought up iraq?? anyway, if suddam hadnt leaked information that they were hiding scuds in hospitals and in schoolyards, those children wouldnt have had to die.<span id='postcolor'>

What children ?

[Fenix83 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">OMFG, how can people be influenced by just some other dumbass hollywood movie?

This has to be the most pathetic thing i have ever seen on the net, even more pathetic then l337 talk

"Hey the somalis shot down american helicopters that were trying to detain a criminal, they deserve what they get. "

So?...the US is responsible for killing more then a Ë million Iraqi childeren.

People like you need to be removed from the gene pool.<span id='postcolor'>

U fool!!! so i deserve to be removed from the gene pool, because i think that people shouldnt shoot at others while they are detaining a criminal? ok, next time a guy is raping you in the ass, it should be allowable that the cops are allowed to be detained from coming to your rescue?

It isnt a "dumbass hollywood movie" im being influenced by, its the facts of the real life event.

Who brought up iraq?? anyway, if suddam hadnt leaked information that they were hiding scuds in hospitals and in schoolyards, those children wouldnt have had to die.<span id='postcolor'>

LMAO I can see the scene :

A young boy speaking with another young boy in an iraqi hospital :

Oh Geeeez i found a scud under my bed !!!

Did you know that in scoolyards of iraq they were playing Scudball ? To mark a TD they had to touch an american barrack.    

[christophercles 0]

Hey, thats what happend. He ordered the scuds to be hidden in playgrounds, hospital car parks, and civilian bomb shelters, so the U.S would get bad press when it destroyed his weapons.