The Middle East part 2

[Messiah 2]

can you blame us

its all rather theoretical though, so its hard to comment with 100% certainty on any possible actions taken by the UK. Plus if it were to happen recently, we have no troops left to send, they're bailing out the US in afghanistan, and being attacked in Iraq...

[Bernadotte 0]

The last time US forces were helping out Israel in Lebanon (1983) they lost 241 servicemen in one of the first instances of a suicide attack.

[mp_phonix 0]

yes it was an attack on a marine base i think . .

[Garcia 0]

can you blame us  

its all rather theoretical though, so its hard to comment with 100% certainty on any possible actions taken by the UK. Plus if it were to happen recently, we have no troops left to send, they're bailing out the US in afghanistan, and being attacked in Iraq...

No, can't really blame you

I hate it when UK sometimes seems to be doing TBAs wishes on command, simply because TBA seems to do things for the wrong reasons, and then they drag UK into the dirt with them. Same goes for our last goverment. Our last prime minister seemed to do whatever Bush did, even though he didn't have support in the people.

Isn't it kinda ironic, US invade Iraq and Afghanistan, then they go shouting for other countries, some who didn't even support the invasion, to do their part and send in forces

[Messiah 2]

Bring back Maggie

[deanosbeano 0]

well we may owe them some debt morally ala ww2 etc but at least we dont owe them any money now .uk`s debt to U.S paid off.Money makes the world go round unforunately.

[Garcia 0]

I know this is off-topic, but just a fast note

Honestly I don't feel countries owe US so much after WWII. USA joined the war only when they were threatened, they just didn't care too much until then. UK and France etc. at least cared about Germany going crazy. Also, USA earned shitloads of money, both from WWI and WWII, before they joined the wars and claimed to be heroes. To me it's more like taking advantage of the wars by first earning money and then, when they're forced into the war, they go play hero. If they really were the heroes they claim(ed) to be, they would have joined both WWI and especially WWII much earlier.

[Nemesis6 0]

...Killed when up to 5 Israeli missiles hit his car. The journalist who had interviewed him in June, later mentioned that everyone knew where Abu Shanab lived; his home was unguarded and, when the journalist visited there, Shanab's 5 year-old daughter had answered the door. Little wonder that today's Hamas members don't recognise Israel considering how Israel has treated those who did.

Killing him was justified. Let me quote some of the other things he has said - "Developing this intifada into a popular military intifada...", that's he described Hamas' political manifesto. Here's another - "We encourage people to carry guns". Abu Shanab was also arrested some years ago by Arafat's security forces, along with Ismail Haniya for violations of a truce that was in place. And don't forget that his death came as a result of 20 killed in the suicide bombing of a bus in Jerusalem.

You thought you found a moderate, you were wrong.

[booradley60 0]

Garcia, that's almost flame-baiting.

On-Topic: Israel claims to have intelligence saying that guerillas are trying to move the kidnapped soldiers to Iran. Nothing confirmed yet, though. Honestly, the only things I trust right now are the pictures, and even those have a bias in their context.

[Garcia 0]

Garcia, that's almost flame-baiting.

And it's also facts and my opinion of the debt some people feel towards USA after WWII.

Quote[/b] ]Bring back Maggie

Doesn't she have senil dementia or something? Though, with the limited knowledge I have of her "rule", she seemed like a good prime minister.

Anyways, Hamas did agree to a document that recognises Israels right to exist.

[deanosbeano 0]

...Killed when up to 5 Israeli missiles hit his car. The journalist who had interviewed him in June, later mentioned that everyone knew where Abu Shanab lived; his home was unguarded and, when the journalist visited there, Shanab's 5 year-old daughter had answered the door. Little wonder that today's Hamas members don't recognise Israel considering how Israel has treated those who did.

Killing him was justified. Let me quote some of the other things he has said - "Developing this intifada into a popular military intifada...", that's he described Hamas' political manifesto. Here's another - "We encourage people to carry guns". Abu Shanab was also arrested some years ago by Arafat's security forces, along with Ismail Haniya for violations of a truce that was in place. And don't forget that his death came as a result of 20 killed in the suicide bombing of a bus in Jerusalem.

You thought you found a moderate, you were wrong.

please alow me to give the link to your quote, i know you couldnt possibly link the BBC , because of its very anti israel policy .

the source or at least A source.

[Nemesis6 0]

Anyways, Hamas did agree to a document that recognises Israels right to exist.

Wrong. That is a lie.

"Palestinian minister Abdel Rahman Zeidan told the BBC the Hamas-Fatah document did not in any way recognize the state of Israel".

[-HUNTER- 1]

And I hope they will get their butts kicked for good this time! Maybee then they will understand that Israel is there to stay and they are much more powerfull...

I say the palestinians and their terrorist groups are too blaim for the whole situation and what has been going on for some time. They should have gotten the clue long ago.

They use terrorisme and fear as a weapon, but infact only the palestinians themselves are getting killed by their own terror campaign. Because Israel will retaliate again and again. And they if you see the news how many kids have been killed by the Israeli well that probally due to the fact the palestinians are too dumb to understand that you shouldnt go and observe gunbattle from up close!

[Bernadotte 0]

Killing him was justified. Let me quote some of the other things he has said - "Developing this intifada into a popular military intifada...", that's he described Hamas' political manifesto. Here's another - "We encourage people to carry guns".

How did saying those things justify killing him??  

Abu Shanab was also arrested some years ago by Arafat's security forces, along with Ismail Haniya for violations of a truce that was in place.

LOL  You'll even believe Arafat's motives when it agrees with your agenda.  Well I certainly never trusted Arafat.

And don't forget that his death came as a result of 20 killed in the suicide bombing of a bus in Jerusalem.

I can understand an Israeli reprisal hit - they do it all the time.  But why not target some Hamas commander instead of the political guy who was ready to recognise Israel??  

You thought you found a moderate, you were wrong.

I never called him a moderate.  But, he could certainly be described as relatively moderate for a Hamas leader.  Just think of a moderate Hamas leader as a treatable form of cancer rather than the malignant tumors in their military wing that can only be surgically removed.

[Nemesis6 0]

Or better yet, you shouldn't do this -

Quote[/b] ]A Palestinian youth pretends to fire at Israeli troops behind a burning barricade during an Israeli army incursion in Beit Lahiya, in the northen Gaza Strip, Friday July 7, 2006. (AP Photo/David Guttenfelder)

[Garcia 0]

And I hope they will get their butts kicked for good this time! Maybee then they will understand that Israel is there to stay and they are much more powerfull...

I do think most of the palestinians fighting know that Israel is more powerful than themself. That is partly why they use suicide bombers.

Also, at this point, I think many of them also know that Israel is there to stay. Many now fight for other things than the destruction of Israel.

Quote[/b] ]I say the palestinians and their terrorist groups are too blaim for the whole situation and what has been going on for some time. They should have gotten the clue long ago.

And Israel is totaly to blame because they've got the military power, they are the strong part, and therefor it's their duty to use their power to find a good solution to this (not use their power to kill all palestinians).

But seriously, that was just a sarcastic counter-argument that was about as silly as the quote. Actually, you can't give anybody the full guilt anymore, and if you think you can, then you're plain stupid. Terrorists are to blame for their constant attacks, though IDF is also to blame for all the different shit they've done (let's not start discussing what they've done, we all know they've done lots of bad things too).

Quote[/b] ]They use terrorisme and fear as a weapon

Well, the retaliation attacks by IDF is certainly using fear as a weapon. They perform retaliation attacks so people are to fear attacking Israel. If you attack Israel, IDF will run over your familys house. The fact that retaliation attack have stopped doesn't change that fact that Israel was/sometime still are using the same "weapon".

Quote[/b] ]but infact only the palestinians themselves are getting killed by their own terror campaign. Because Israel will retaliate again and again.

And Israelis are getting killed by their own retaliation attacks. Quite many of the suicide attacks are probably retaliation for Israels retaliation attacks for a suicide bombing which was retaliation for a Israeli retaliation attack for a suicide bombing which was retaliation for a Israeli retaliation attack...

Quote[/b] ]And they if you see the news how many kids have been killed by the Israeli well that probally due to the fact the palestinians are too dumb to understand that you shouldnt go and observe gunbattle from up close!

Or possibly because the Israelis are to dumb to see the difference between a guy with an AK47 and a child with a teddybear? Or possibly because the Israeli pilots are to dumb to see the difference between children playing football and the real target? Or possibly because all Israelis are dumb?

Now, that was sarcastic again, just to show how stupid it is to say that palestinian children die because they're "dumb".

[lwlooz 0]

It is quite sad state of affairs if humans see the killings of a dozen of civilians as justified for the kidnapping of military personell.But well, as long as Isreal can get away attacking other countries and killing as many people as it feels like without consequences,it will go on doing it.

Not that the other side is any better , they surely know how to make their cause totally unpopular in the world.

So: Same old,Same old.Two retarded factions killing each other and it will go on and on

Edit: Btw,I always find it suprising that people like manhunter who lack any sort of human decency and post quite disgusting stuff can go about on this forums as they want,while people are getting banned for >100kb pics

[Nemesis6 0]

Ok, we're now three people who support Israel in this thread who various people want banned - Me, The Avon Lady, and Manhunter.

By the way, Looz, if anything's disgusting, it's either you as a person or your morals.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Ok, we're now three people who support Israel in this thread who various people want banned - Me, The Avon Lady, and Manhunter.

By the way, Looz, if anything's disgusting, it's either you as a person or your morals.

I think I gave you enough warning in previous encounters. Flaming. wait for sentencing.

same gos to lwlooz

Quote[/b] ]Edit: Btw,I always find it suprising that people like manhunter who lack any sort of human decency and post quite disgusting stuff can go about on this forums as they want,while people are getting banned for >100kb pics

[Jinef 2]

As uncivilised and un-diplomatic as Looz's statement was. I agree.

[mp_phonix 0]

Or better yet, you shouldn't do this -

Quote[/b] ]A Palestinian youth pretends to fire at Israeli troops behind a burning barricade during an Israeli army incursion in Beit Lahiya, in the northen Gaza Strip, Friday July 7, 2006. (AP Photo/David Guttenfelder)

Yes and then we are balimed for killing civillians with no reaseon.

IDf pilots are stupid ? we have the best pilots in the world.

Can't tell the diffrence from gun to teedy-bear ? we can

Telling the diffrence from a toy-gun to a real gun ? sorry we can't, the soldiers are little busy when they are being fired by terrorists.

[Garcia 0]

IDf pilots are stupid ? we have the best pilots in the world.

Can't tell the diffrence from gun to teedy-bear ? we can

Telling the diffrence from a toy-gun to a real gun ? sorry we can't, the soldiers are little busy when they are being fired by terrorists.

oh christ...I am starting to have doubts about your ability to either read or understand english, because something is clearly wrong here...first you have problems understanding the reason why Bernadotte brought up genocide, even after myself and Bernadotte told you that he wasn't comparing IDF actions to nazi action, and now you manage to not see the clear sarcasism, even though I wrote that I was being sarcastic...

Quote[/b] ]Or possibly because the Israelis are to dumb to see the difference between a guy with an AK47 and a child with a teddybear? Or possibly because the Israeli pilots are to dumb to see the difference between children playing football and the real target? Or possibly because all Israelis are dumb?

Now, that was sarcastic again, just to show how stupid it is to say that palestinian children die because they're "dumb".

ok, even though I was supposed to write "Now I was sarcastic again", I don't see how you could possibly miss that last notice.

I'll just say it again, so you hopefuly get it...

When I wrote the sentance you refer to, I WAS BEING SARCASTIC...

[scary 0]

IDf pilots are stupid ? we have the best pilots in the world.

How exactly did you come to that hilarious conclusion?

When was the last time an IDF pilot faced effective air defense, AAA, SAMs, etc.? When was the last time an IDF pilot faced another aircraft, dog-fight style? When was the last IDF anti-armour helicopters faced, you know, armour? When was the last time an IDF pilot did something as simple as a carrier landing?

IDF pilots spend their time shooting fish in barrels. Best in the world

Quote[/b] ]Can't tell the diffrence from gun to teedy-bear ? we can

We? You're not in the IDF yet. They that are do find difficulty telling the difference between armed terrorists and children playing football though.

Quote[/b] ]Telling the diffrence from a toy-gun to a real gun ? sorry we can't, the soldiers are little busy when they are being fired by terrorists.

Perhaps they should hold themselves to a higher standard.

[mp_phonix 0]

and who are you scary ? saying you are military man but not telling in which country . .I wonder why is that ?

strange, I don't remmember any airofrce dealing with 3 countries at once {exepct WWII}.

Quote[/b] ]

the difference between armed terrorists and children playing football

that was allready cleared that hte missle missed his target, it was not the pilot's fault.

Again, saying sentences like "you should put higher standartts" ..

Just tell me in what army you serve ? US ? they kill civilians in iraq to.

Quote[/b] ]

something as simple as a carrier landing

thats because we don't have carriers

[Messiah 2]

strange, I don't remmember any airofrce dealing with 3 countries at once {exepct WWII}.

dealing with 3 countries?

if you call 'dealing':

blowing up bridges, that cant move or fight back

power stations, that cant move or fight back

civilian houses, that cant move or fight back

Beirut's runways, that cant move or fight back

They do manage to hit moving Hamas vehicles... oh, wait, no, they have a nasty habit of hitting something 100m away instead/taking out half the neighbourhood in the process

I mean, christ hold me back now, these shows of pure skill and expertise make the rest of the world quite envious. Nothing like proving you can hit a mile long runway with a precision weapon...

Im not saying they're bad pilots, but your argument that they're the best in the world because they're taking on three countries at once is naive and frankly ignorant...

on the basis of your theory, that means Iraq in 1991 must have had the best pilots in the world, as they were fighting against a coalition of what, 6/7 countries? Bloody hell, how did Iraq lose the Gulf War?