German Elections

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

How am I supposed to have sympathy for a population that increasingly prefers communist or right wing parties?

The problem is that they can complain as long as they want to but it wont change anything about the lives. Nor do protest help, the only one who can make your own life better is yourself and a prosperous economy.

To let the economy prosper you need to reduce labour costs. Unfortunately we dont have the money right now to reduce these costs without cutting elsewhere too.

I worked long enough in the tourism sector to know that with a little discipline you can EASILY find a job as a waiter. NO PROBLEM, but I guess most of these east german fellow are too proud to do that job. And why working 30 days if you would only earn a few euros more?

My sympathy has ended, time to play tough on them! I grew up in a very wealthy family but still I wasnt girly enough to not do the LOWEST jobs in a hotel. It taught me a lesson.

Either they learn to find a job or they starve to death. Keep the social welfare for those that realy need it. And yes, if a architect cant find a job anymore with 40 then he has to go back finding something else. Only proaction makes you get a job... time to learn that.

[raedor 8]

[...]

still I wasnt girly enough to not do the LOWEST jobs in a hotel.

[...]

what do you mean with lowest jobs? waiter?

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

with lowest job I mean housekeeping (cleaning living rooms, & bathrooms). That is what I mean.

Work needs to be done and money needs to be earned. I know many examples of people that started like this and reached good positions within few years.

I was lucky that my parents were able to send me to a private university in switzerland but even if it this wouldnt have been the case I would have no problem starting down at the bottom of the food chain again... .

[raedor 8]

a private university in switzerland and the lowest job do not really fit together. i mean, there are lower jobs than you mentioned, but if everyone would think like you do we would have less problems. that's motivation.

[llauma 0]

with lowest job I mean housekeeping (cleaning living rooms, & bathrooms). That is what I mean.

Work needs to be done and money needs to be earned. I know many examples of people that started like this and reached good positions within few years.

I was lucky that my parents were able to send me to a private university in switzerland but even if it this wouldnt have been the case I would have no problem starting down at the bottom of the food chain again... .

But the thing is that not everyone can climb the career ladder. A huge majority will always have to do the serving.. What would the world be without garbage men, cleaners, grocery store cashiers etc.. I know people who has gone from a poor family to the finest neighbourhoods of London so it's possible, but not for all.

Anyone can do the lowest jobs without complains if they know that they wont be doing that for the rest of their healthy lives.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

with lowest job I mean housekeeping (cleaning living rooms, & bathrooms). That is what I mean.

Work needs to be done and money needs to be earned. I know many examples of people that started like this and reached good positions within few years.

I was lucky that my parents were able to send me to a private university in switzerland but even if it this wouldnt have been the case I would have no problem starting down at the bottom of the food chain again... .

But the thing is that not everyone can climb the career ladder. A huge majority will always have to do the serving.. What would the world be without garbage men, cleaners, grocery store cashiers etc.. I know people who has gone from a poor family to the finest neighbourhoods of London so it's possible, but not for all.

Anyone can do the lowest jobs without complains if they know that they wont be doing that for the rest of their healthy lives.

Sure, I know that. Still, I did it for several months and worked in lower positions for more than 2 years. In the tourism sector you are obliged to climb that way in order to have respect of these people once you are in charge of them.

The problem for those people is not so much the salary but the acknowledgement they earn during their work.

In germany we reached somewhat american standards. People are embarrassed to take lower positions and think they are worth more just because they did this or that school or because their parents are architects or doctors.

We look down on people working as potwashers or porters and have adopted the attitude: better no job than a job below my standards. This is totally wrong. We should have more respect of someone working in a lower position than of someone who studied, is unemployed and not willing to start at the bottom. And believe me, there are only very few people not being able to climb the career-ladder with the time. In a hotel you can rise from basically any position within a few years and reach a decent salary.

The only problem is that basically NO german is willing to start at the bottom. They do it for 2 weeks, are embarrassed of what they do, and then leave again. The only one willing to do the job is probably a guy from India, but he wont be able to rise because he barely speaks the language. For someone with adequate language skills and little bit of common sense can rise from a pot washer to a General Manager within 15 years. That is no lie but pure experience. Once you start as a pot washer and impress superiors with your diligence, they offer you a 2 year traineeship and that is the first step into the management.

So I disagree, if you are capable to speak your language, to think logically and to work hard you can easily rise from every position within 2 years.

I ask those graduates that are currently unemployed: "have you tried it this way, so you can judge"? What makes you so sure that you deserve to work in a well payed position?

If you dont intent to work in a scientific or academic position then university means nothing. That is the first thing an arrogant graduate needs to learn.

[MASTAKILLA 0]

what´s going on?

EU sanctions for germany - now  

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

lol, not realy. We are still FAAAR below the european average as far as right wing parties are concerned.  

Unlike in austria they are not ruling the state, and definetly not the country!

[MASTAKILLA 0]

maybe, but i would feel better if the eu send the "drei weisen" to germany for a closer look...

[denoir 0]

what´s going on?

EU sanctions for germany - now  

I doubt the EU would authorize sanctions against itself.. for..well..apparent reasons.

[-33ker 0]

Quote[/b] ]All that 'the polish find enough jobs here' crap is utter bullshit. Notice how they don't have to live here, but just work here for a short time: most are seasonal workers in agriculture or in construction - the latter are there because german construction companies subcontract the actual work out to cheaper polish companies. The latter leading to the ruin of german companies and more people on the dole. Now you could say that this is just because german workers are too expensive: well, thanks to the secondary costs (health insurance, pensions, etc) they are. Do you want the state to pay for that so they can compete?

The polish worker returns home after some time and there the money's much more worth (in what you get for the same sum) than in Germany. Costs of living are much lower there and thus it's good money for hard work. Here it's less than you get on the dole and not enough to feed your family anyways.

That exactly is the point! Work has to be worthy doing it! Germans would go to the fields and work there if they could feed their families with the money they earn. The state must create such jobs to reduce unemployment!

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Quote[/b] ]All that 'the polish find enough jobs here' crap is utter bullshit. Notice how they don't have to live here, but just work here for a short time: most are seasonal workers in agriculture or in construction - the latter are there because german construction companies subcontract the actual work out to cheaper polish companies. The latter leading to the ruin of german companies and more people on the dole. Now you could say that this is just because german workers are too expensive: well, thanks to the secondary costs (health insurance, pensions, etc) they are. Do you want the state to pay for that so they can compete?

The polish worker returns home after some time and there the money's much more worth (in what you get for the same sum) than in Germany. Costs of living are much lower there and thus it's good money for hard work. Here it's less than you get on the dole and not enough to feed your family anyways.

That exactly  is the point! Work has to be worthy doing it! Germans would go to the fields and work there if they could feed their families with the money they earn. The state must create such jobs to reduce unemployment!

Oh you can easily feed your families with the money you earn there. But why doing it if the unemployment support gives you basically the same money for NOT working!

And only a minority of the unemployed males have a family to feed. Many of them just wait for the PERFECT job to be offered to them!

(I know I sound pretty ignorant and extreme)

[joltan 0]

Albert, it is ignorant as the majority of longterm unemployed have a vastly different profile from what you mention: they are too old, and they lack the qualifications for most jobs. And often they have to compete with students and pupils who are even cheaper to employ (also I wrote above: you only need so many waiters etc. - and then a nice 20 year female student looks much better than a 40 year old male with a beer belly).

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]The state must create such jobs to reduce unemployment!

A state can not create jobs. A state can prepare the environment for companies and that´s what´s happening but the companies exploit this situation , make false proposals and promises to the government and to the people of germany and exploit the financial benefits from the state without providing what they agreed on.

Anyway, there are a lot of job programs by the state but they only create an artificial environment of bringing people temporarely out of their jobless situation. In the end it´s the individual that has to get active. A thing, a lot of former east german citizens don´t understand or do not accept for blockhead reasons.

Montagsdemos are THE perfect example for this. They should better use the time they spend on the street to demonstrate and swing 3rd Reich paroles with getting their future into their hands.

Bundeswehr has a lot of free slots for willing people but judged by the rate of former east germans who signed up for the BW and left us because it is too "stressy" really didn´t really surprise me. Same for the consumption of alcohol and drugs among those. I don´t talk about the evening joint, that I can live with during peacetime conditions but heavy alcoholism and drug abuse among them.

Sorry but if you get offered a really well paid job and mess it for alcohol or drugs it´s your fault. Noone else is to blame for that.

[Metalmalte 0]

build up the wall again!

[raedor 8]

build up the wall again!

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ]build up the wall again!

While this comment is somewhat off the mark ,i do spot as outsider here some real cultural difference's between East and West Germany that seem to be very hard to close up.

Or otherwise said ,while the wall may be fysicly down ,cultury it seems to be still in existance and actually growing stronger again.

[kavoven 4]

Quote[/b] ]build up the wall again!

While this comment is somewhat off the mark ,i do spot as outsider here some real cultural difference's between East and West Germany that seem to be very hard to close up.

Or otherwise said ,while the wall may be fysicly down ,cultury it seems to be still in existance and actually growing stronger again.

Yes, I think you're right. Many problems(don't blame me if I call them like that) would be solved, if the wall was still there. In think the government tranfers 90 million euros each year into the east. In many eastern Bundesländer, the unemployment rate is much higher than the avarage and so on.

But I think that wouldn't make both Germanys stronger, than they're now, so it's just a short-term solution. And a new wall would create even more fear and hate.

But a big problem is, that the whole thing develops into the same kind of conflict, the US have with other countries. They're looking down on them and West-German people start doing the same. Or better, they did that already before.

[joltan 0]

The problem is the wall in the heads that's still there. As can be seen here in this thread many people in the west still thim in "us - them" cathegories - and many people in the East do the same. Although I have to say that in my experience west german people are worse in their prejudices. They border on arrogance and make the situation just worse for both sides. The people in the East are just unhappy how the situation there developed, and they complain a lot - but who wouldn't.

[der bastler 0]

Quote[/b] ]build up the wall again!

While this comment is somewhat off the mark ,i do spot as outsider here some real cultural difference's between East and West Germany that seem to be very hard to close up.

Or otherwise said ,while the wall may be fysicly down ,cultury it seems to be still in existance and actually growing stronger again.

Yes, the Wall is still existent, and it will be existent for decades. 40 years of disunion leave deep, ugly scars behind...

In the east there are people who remember "se good ol' dez": the GDR as a paradise in terms of public social services. They will admit that they couldn't travel far and that such services would have crashed the country in the 90s. But hey, "se good ol' dez"! Life seemed nicer back then...

In the west there are people who remember "se good ol' dez": The economy hadn't to shoulder two countries. Somewhere in the east was a border of a fortified and closed country, but that's other people's business (opb). Life seemed easier back then...

P.S.: It would be rather poor for Europe to intervene in german internal politics. The Republic has to stand right-wing hillbillies, otherwise it wouldn't be a democracy worth defending...

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

It is like this

"someone who was born with in Brooklyn, will always explain any misery or failure in his life with the words

"it is because I was born there, and people dont like that"

[-33ker 0]

Quote[/b] ]The state must create such jobs to reduce unemployment!

A state can not create jobs. A state can prepare the environment for companies

That's what I meant, thank you.

BTW I've been in the East the last few days and think that the money the west is pumping into the east was wort it! The cities look much better than they did a few years ago. Too bad I couldn't stay there till today to see how many protesters there really are on the streets.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Quote[/b] ]The state must create such jobs to reduce unemployment!

A state can not create jobs. A state can prepare the environment for companies

That's what I meant, thank you.

BTW I've been in the East the last few days and think that the money the west is pumping into the east was wort it! The cities look much better than they did a few years ago. Too bad I couldn't stay there till today to see how many protesters there really are on the streets.

Have you been to Halle or Franfurt / Oder ?

Sure there are cities that have become beautiful (like Rostock for example) but most of the money was used to renovate the inner part of the old cities and to subsidise semi-dead companies.

The schools in the East still look shit! And I mean it!

[-33ker 0]

You're right! but after all, I thinkit's not right to say we should have left them alone not caring for their issues after the reunion. Many mistakes were done and the money was put into the wrong things sometimes, but it was desperately needed.

[raedor 8]

Quote[/b] ]The state must create such jobs to reduce unemployment!

A state can not create jobs. A state can prepare the environment for companies

That's what I meant, thank you.

BTW I've been in the East the last few days and think that the money the west is pumping into the east was wort it! The cities look much better than they did a few years ago. Too bad I couldn't stay there till today to see how many protesters there really are on the streets.

Have you been to Halle or Franfurt / Oder ?

Sure there are cities that have become beautiful (like Rostock for example) but most of the money was used to renovate the inner part of the old cities and to subsidise semi-dead companies.

The schools in the East still look shit! And I mean it!

with the schools you're wrong again.

these are pics of my school in greifswald:

http://www.hgw.shuttle.de/hgw....sse.htm

http://www.hgw.shuttle.de/hgw....cht.jpg

(2 houses)

now some of my new school in erlangen:

http://web36.virthost01.ip-exchange.de/tour....1&d=1.2

http://web36.virthost01.ip-exchange.de/tour....2&d=1.2

but the other thing (renovation) is true. greifswald's old city is really beautiful, but teterow...