The Iraq thread 4

[Thunderbird 0]

US army ___ that's time to leave irak...everyday innocent people're dying under their bullets...

US army out of Irak please...Stop 'blood for oil'

If this army will stay there , everyday a lot and a lot of people will die... they must go back now.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]Did they not have headlights on?

What does that matter? If it was dark enough to warrant headlights, then that greatly increases the likelyhood that they didn't even see "hand and arm" gestures.

From the sound of it, there is a lot more to this story and I highly doubt we will hear all of it. Whether it was a communication fuck up or a delibrate act, we won't know. One question arises, if they had past all the checkpoints ok, why did a patrol still feel it necessary to fire on the car since obviously it had been checked out?

Speculating that they were "in Arab clothes" doesn't matter. If they had been through numerous checkpoint, undoubtedly the truth of their situation would have been revealed. If not, then I suggest a lot more training for the checkpoint guards.

[Wilco 944]

Quote[/b] ]"Giuliana had information, and the US military did not want her to survive," he added.

That part gets me. If the U.S. didn't want her to survive, then why isn't the other bodygaurd speaking out against the U.S.? Also, if they wanted to kill her since she had so called "information", why not just blow the living hell out of the car? Since they were prepared for her arrival then you think they would have an IFV or MBT waiting for her car also?

Anyone mind clearing that up for me?

[Wilco 944]

For those familiar with Iraq in this conflict,we all know that this is nothing new.Many lifes were lost at the cost of imprudance and indiscriminate fire on US account.The story is always the same either civillians are shot dead at poorly marked checkpoints at night or shot by US soldiers firing indiscriminatly after being hit by roadside bombs.I still can not understand what is the point of spraying gunfire randomly in every direction,when it is obvious that the insurgents are at a safe distance of hundreads of metres away when they detonate the IEDs

Panic sets in, and you have a rifle.  These guys are 18-19 years old, sure they've been trained in dealing with this, but training isn't anywhere near the real thing.  You think they do it because they're trained to do that?  It's panic, you're instinct is to get out of the area alive, and you have a rifle to help you out, so you shoot.  It could be the man behind the convoy, could be guys 500 yards away, you or I don't know, the terrorists blend in with the civilian population, who's who?

Ever heard of the "Fight or Flight" response that kicks when you're scared?

[denoir 0]

Anyone mind clearing that up for me?

You have to look at who said that:

Quote[/b] ]

"I don't believe a word of the American version," said Oliviero Diliberto, head of the Italian Communist party

"The Americans deliberately fired on Italians. This is huge. All of the center-left must vote in parliament for the withdrawal of our troops."

The Italian left has its own anti-war agenda and Italian politicians like to make sensational claims.

It's rubbish as the shooting only serves to damage relations with Italy and America. Italy's participation in Iraq is of great symbolic value as it is one of the very few EU countries that has troops there.

It would make no sense whatesoever to target a just released Italian hostage.

I'd put more stock in the explanation that Sgrena's partner Pier Scolari put forward:

Quote[/b] ]we are dealing with imbeciles or terrorized kids who shoot at anyone

[theavonlady 2]

Take this with a lump of salt until confirmed or dismissed but you heard it here first:

Quote[/b] ]Iraqi Sources Claim U.S. Forces Arrest Leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq

14:06 Mar 06, '05 / 25 Adar 5765

Sources in Iraq claim that United States Armed Forces have arrested the leader of al Qaeda in Iraq, Abu-Masab E-Zarqawi.

Some sources say he was arrested with three assistants, while others claim he was arrested before Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld’s last visit to Iraq.

The United States has posted a $25 million award for information leading to the capture of the al Qaeda leader.

UPDATE: Source of the news is Saudi Arabian paper Al-Watan, according to Arutz-7's original article in Hebrew.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Panic sets in, and you have a rifle.  These guys are 18-19 years old, sure they've been trained in dealing with this, but training isn't anywhere near the real thing.  You think they do it because they're trained to do that?  It's panic, you're instinct is to get out of the area alive, and you have a rifle to help you out, so you shoot.  It could be the man behind the convoy, could be guys 500 yards away, you or I don't know, the terrorists blend in with the civilian population, who's who?

Ever heard of the "Fight or Flight" response that kicks when you're scared?

in other words not ready for the job? when left cliaims that US troops are trigger happy, conservatives say it's not true, but seems like such stance quickly changes when it will serve them better.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/03/06/italy.iraq/index.html

Quote[/b] ]ROME, Italy (CNN) -- An Italian journalist shot by American forces in Iraq after being released from a month in captivity has disputed a U.S. account of the incident in which she was wounded and a security agent protecting her was killed.

In an article published Sunday in her paper, Il Manifesto, Giuliana Sgrena wrote, "Our car was driving slowly," and "the Americans fired without motive."

She described a "rain of fire and bullets" in the incident.

The U.S. military said Sgrena's car rapidly approached a checkpoint Friday night, and those inside ignored repeated warnings to stop.

Troops used arm signals and flashing white lights, fired warning shots in front of the car, and shot into the engine block when the driver did not stop, the military said in a statement.

But in an interview with Italy's La 7 Television, the 56-year-old journalist said "there was no bright light, no signal."

And Italian magistrate Franco Ionta said Sgrena reported the incident was not at a checkpoint, but rather the shots came from "a patrol that shot as soon as they lit us up with a spotlight."

Rules of engagement permit coalition troops to use escalating levels of force if they feel threatened. They can use lethal force, for example, if a car refuses to stop for a checkpoint.

The road where the incident took place was particularly dangerous, said CNN's Nic Robertson.

It remains unclear whether U.S. officials knew that the Italian security team would be transporting Sgrena to the airport. U.S. and Italian officials have not said.

Sgrena was lightly wounded in the shoulder and underwent treatment at a U.S. hospital in Baghdad. She is now back in Rome, getting follow-up treatment at the city's military hospital.

In her article Sunday, headlined "My truth," Sgrena described the harrowing ordeal of "the most dramatic day of my life" -- including the moment that 50-year-old security agent Nicola Calipari threw himself on her to protect her from the bullets and she heard "his last breath."

An autopsy found Calipari, an experienced negotiator who had previously secured the release of other Italian hostages in Baghdad, was killed by a single shot to the head and died instantly.

<snip>

[theavonlady 2]

when left cliaims that US troops are trigger happy, conservatives say it's not true

!00% are trigger happy?

60%?

30%

10%

2%

0.5?

What?

And what if there weren't 300-400 shots? Who was doing the counting?

What if they were going "fast" and failed to obey orders to halt? And might that mean that no one was trigger happy at all?

And what if everything so far is speculation based on the word of a rabid anti-American and her Leninist rag fellow staffers?

Just because we all want the facts presto doesn't mean we've got them.

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]Just noticed the story is from Al Jazeera. Pass me a grain of salt, please.

Simply pathetic.Is it Aljazeera views or are they reporting from a press conference that dozens of agency attended,my guess is the second.

Quote[/b] ]The press conference was attended by more than 20 Iraqi and foreign media networks, including the Iraqi ash-Sharqiyah TV network, the Iraqi as-Sabah newspaper, the U.S. Washington Post and the Knight-Ridder service.

Talk about reeking with bias,I seriously recomand you to largen your perspective right now you are closing the same league with Wahabi extremists that no mather what you tell them and edvidence you sustain they will  brush off any of your sources as being from apostates and infidel affliated organisations.

Several days have passed. I cannot find this story at any of the press agencies or networks you've mentioned and those left unmentioned.

The only other place it shows up besides Al Jazzera is one of the Chechnyan terrorist's main web sites (no link, as it might break forum rules), other Jihadi sites and US and Euro left sites. Birds of a feather............................

I'm sure there's a logical explanation.

[Wilco 944]

Panic sets in, and you have a rifle.  These guys are 18-19 years old, sure they've been trained in dealing with this, but training isn't anywhere near the real thing.  You think they do it because they're trained to do that?  It's panic, you're instinct is to get out of the area alive, and you have a rifle to help you out, so you shoot.  It could be the man behind the convoy, could be guys 500 yards away, you or I don't know, the terrorists blend in with the civilian population, who's who?

Ever heard of the "Fight or Flight" response that kicks when you're scared?

in other words not ready for the job? when left cliaims that US troops are trigger happy, conservatives say it's not true, but seems like such stance quickly changes when it will serve them better.

It's the bodies natural reaction to fear, you can't train anyone to not have a natural reaction.  If you can or have any evidence that you can, please tell me about it.  I'm not saying that we should rule out "trigger happy" soldiers, I'm just saying that we shouldn't rule out a humans natural reaction.

You can train and mock an ambush or an IED attack so many times and still not be ready for the real thing. During a training mission you know you have that thought in the back of your head it's all a drill.  But once shit starts hitting the fan in real time, and you know the enemy isn't using blanks, you start to lose control sometimes, and the best thing you can do is shoot back.  You certainly can't jump off of a 5t while it's rolling unless you're asking for a death wish.  So what does that leave us with since "flight" is ruled out?

[ralphwiggum 6]

Panic sets in, and you have a rifle.  These guys are 18-19 years old, sure they've been trained in dealing with this, but training isn't anywhere near the real thing.  You think they do it because they're trained to do that?  It's panic, you're instinct is to get out of the area alive, and you have a rifle to help you out, so you shoot.  It could be the man behind the convoy, could be guys 500 yards away, you or I don't know, the terrorists blend in with the civilian population, who's who?

Ever heard of the "Fight or Flight" response that kicks when you're scared?

in other words not ready for the job? when left cliaims that US troops are trigger happy, conservatives say it's not true, but seems like such stance quickly changes when it will serve them better.

It's the bodies natural reaction to fear, you can't train anyone to not have a natural reaction.  If you can or have any evidence that you can, please tell me about it.  I'm not saying that we should rule out "trigger happy" soldiers, I'm just saying that we shouldn't rule out a humans natural reaction.

You can train and mock an ambush or an IED attack so many times and still not be ready for the real thing.  During a training mission you know you have that thought in the back of your head it's all a drill.  But once shit starts hitting the fan in real time, and you know the enemy isn't using blanks, you start to lose control sometimes, and the best thing you can do is shoot back.  You certainly can't jump off of a 5t while it's rolling unless you're asking for a death wish.  So what does that leave us with since "flight" is ruled out?

you are missing th point. when triggerhappy incidents are happening, conservatives quickly run for cover and say it's nothing, and is natural to happen. but when it is time to face the fact that they are not trained, conservatives just pick up the shield of patriotism and 'support our troops' and yell at left.

i wonder just how many non armed vehicles are legitimate targets. i'm pretty sure that most of them are IED carrying suicide bombers since if only a few of them are, there wouldn't be much concern, right?

!00% are trigger happy?

60%?

30%

10%

2%

0.5?

What?

And what if there weren't 300-400 shots? Who was doing the counting?

What if they were going "fast" and failed to obey orders to halt? And might that mean that no one was trigger happy at all?

And what if everything so far is speculation based on the word of a rabid anti-American and her Leninist rag fellow staffers?

Just because we all want the facts presto doesn't mean we've got them.

yes, so don't assume that Itaians were speeding and running over check points. your nice choice of words for the news reporter shows that you already decided to conclude based on US's initial claim, which is now being scrutnized.

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]Just noticed the story is from Al Jazeera. Pass me a grain of salt, please.

Simply pathetic.Is it Aljazeera views or are they reporting from a press conference that dozens of agency attended,my guess is the second.

Quote[/b] ]The press conference was attended by more than 20 Iraqi and foreign media networks, including the Iraqi ash-Sharqiyah TV network, the Iraqi as-Sabah newspaper, the U.S. Washington Post and the Knight-Ridder service.

Talk about reeking with bias,I seriously recomand you to largen your perspective right now you are closing the same league with Wahabi extremists that no mather what you tell them and edvidence you sustain they will  brush off any of your sources as being from apostates and infidel affliated organisations.

Several days have passed. I cannot find this story at any of the press agencies or networks you've mentioned and those left unmentioned.

The only other place it shows up besides Al Jazzera is one of the Chechnyan terrorist's main web sites (no link, as it might break forum rules), other Jihadi sites and US and Euro left sites. Birds of a feather............................

I'm sure there's a logical explanation.

Sure there is AvonLady,and you must be prety blind not to see it.It serves the Jihadi sites agenda to post the story about US military using napalm and chemical weapons to point out their ruthlesness and the need for Muslims to mobilise and join the resistance.

I am sure they weren't shy on quoting CNN when they had exclusivity on the abuse photos story so I fail to see your argument.

Here is another theory for you.Aljazeera hadn't in fact lied on the Health Ministry meeting with the journalist taking place and many agencies taking part,using the health official name and quoting him so on and so forth,they had exclusivity on the story and the other news agencies are doing a poor job in reporting the story brushing it aside as lacking truth and probably got a nice denial comment from US military official satisying themselves not to raise any further questions.

[theavonlady 2]

yes, so don't assume that Itaians were speeding and running over check points. your nice choice of words for the news reporter shows that you already decided to conclude based on US's initial claim, which is now being scrutnized.

I have no idea what happened and I fail to fathom how everyone else has concluded what the facts are.

That's my opinion.

[Balschoiw 0]

Therefore you are pretty fast in swinging the Avon-flag of unshakeable trust in coaltion forces. Well let´s read what the eye-witness number 1 has to say:

Quote[/b] ]ROME - Left-wing journalist Giuliana Sgrena claimed American soldiers gave no warning before they opened fire and said Sunday she could not rule out that U.S. forces intentionally shot at the car carrying her to the Baghdad airport, wounding her and killing the Italian agent who had just won her freedom after a month in captivity.

....

Sgrena's editor at the daily Il Manifesto, Gabriele Polo, said Italian officials told him 300-400 rounds were fired at the car. Italian military officials said two other intelligence agents were wounded in the shooting; U.S. officials said only one other agent was hurt.

Without backing up the claim, Sgrena said she believed it was possible she was targeted because the United States objected to methods used to secure her release.

"The fact that the Americans don't want negotiations to free the hostages is known," the 56-year-old journalist told Sky TG24 television by telephone, her voice hoarse and shaky. "The fact that they do everything to prevent the adoption of this practice to save the lives of people held hostage, everybody knows that. So I don't see why I should rule out that I could have been the target."

Sgrena said she knew nothing about a ransom payment, and no details have emerged about how authorities won her release. An Italian Cabinet minister said money likely changed hands.

U.S. officials object to ransom payments or negotiation with kidnappers, claiming that only encourages further hostage-taking.

...

But in an interview with Italian La 7 TV, Sgrena said, "There was no bright light, no signal." She also said the car was traveling at "regular speed."

...

"I remember only fire," Sgrena wrote in Il Manifesto. "At that point a rain of fire and bullets came at us, forever silencing the happy voices from a few minutes earlier."

She said the driver began shouting that they were Italian, then "Nicola Calipari dove on top of me to protect me and immediately, and I mean immediately, I felt his last breath as he died on me."

Doesn´t matter much as she´s a leftist terrorist supporter, right ?

I bet that will be the next approach towards her personality and credibility.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Therefore you are pretty fast in swinging the Avon-flag of unshakeable trust in coaltion forces. Well let´s read what the eye-witness number 1 has to say:

What about eye-witnesses two (agent), three (agent) , and the patrol/checkpoint who are equally important.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]

What about eye-witnesses two (agent), three (agent) , and the patrol/checkpoint who are equally important.

Agents working for an agency, especially injured ones are not known for being the the most telling ones in such issues.

Apart from that, the italian government has already stated that more people (agents) got injured than the US authorities list in their first report.

So come in again billybob, maybe with up-to-date info....

If you can´t , don´t spam the thread with assumptions.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]

What about eye-witnesses two (agent), three (agent) , and the patrol/checkpoint who are equally important.

Agents working for an agency, especially injured ones are not known for being the the most telling ones in such issues.

Apart from that, the italian government has already stated that more people (agents) got injured than the US authorities list in their first report.

So come in again billybob, maybe with up-to-date info....

If you can´t , don´t spam the thread with assumptions.

What are you talking about? Italian military officials said two other intelligence agents were wounded in the shooting and americans say it was one ( http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm....hostage). So, who was in the car according to the italians? the woman and agents (4 people). Only one person died and that leaves three people who were wounded according to the italians. The two other agents status is unknown has of now. You need to stop spamming. Just trying to look at the whole picture. Anyway, in a new translated interview she said it was a tank now (probably a bradley).

[Wilco 944]

Quote[/b] ]

What about eye-witnesses two (agent), three (agent) , and the patrol/checkpoint who are equally important.

Agents working for an agency, especially injured ones are not known for being the the most telling ones in such issues.

Apart from that, the italian government has already stated that more people (agents) got injured than the US authorities list in their first report.

So come in again billybob, maybe with up-to-date info....

If you can´t , don´t spam the thread with assumptions.

What are you talking about? The italian military officials said two other intelligence agents were wounded in the shooting and americans say it was one ( http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm....hostage). So, who was in the car according to the italians? the woman and agents (4 people). Only one person died and that leaves three people who were wounded according to the italians. You need to stop spamming. Just trying to look at the whole picture. Anyway, in a new translated interview she said it was a tank now.

A tank?  Haha, why not call in the whole god damn 1/2!

If it's true she says a tank fired upon her vehicle, then they can check out her claims easily on that one.  Reviewing the entry holes in the vehicle and also looking for some shell casings if the .50 supposedly fired upon the vehicle.  I don't know about you guys, but seeing that she's changing her story, something smells fishy.

Another thing, why would we not want her to return to Italy? Any suggestions on this one?

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ] You need to stop spamming. Just trying to look at the whole picture.

That´s what I´m doing smartass.

You just posted it yourself:

Quote[/b] ] The italian military officials said two other intelligence agents were wounded in the shooting and americans say it was one

Funny that americans should know better, as the agents in question were treated in a US led hospital....

Quote[/b] ]So, who was in the car according to the italians? the woman and agents (4 people).

So ? Wanna play freaky ? What´s your funny point, argument or non-existing base of counterpoint ? I can´t see it ! Enlighten me.

Quote[/b] ]You need to stop spamming. Just trying to look at the whole picture.

Ah yes ? 400 shots fired at a car that passed several checkpoints, reached the inner sec-circ of Baghdad airport, announced by italian coalition forces, declared as "high valuable object", getting shot at, killing one, injuring 2 ? that´s the picture I get. That´s the picture the people onboard got.

Talk of bullshit. Talk of lack of com. Talk of failure, but don´t talk of spam. Not you billybob. Provide facts, provide word, provide info, but don´t try to cheat us into another "this is all made up".

People died or got seriously injured because of that shit and the only reason why this made it into the press was that the persons involved were some kind of people who had some reputation or people cared about them. If you transport this incident to the general Iraqi situation you´ll know that the coalition forces in service act anything but effective or professional. That´s the bottom line.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ] You need to stop spamming. Just trying to look at the whole picture.

That´s what I´m doing smartass.

You just posted it yourself:

Quote[/b] ] The italian military officials said two other intelligence agents were wounded in the shooting and americans say it was one

Funny that americans should know better, as the agents in question were treated in a US led hospital....

Quote[/b] ]So, who was in the car according to the italians? the woman and agents (4 people).

So ? Wanna play freaky ? What´s your funny point, argument or non-existing base of counterpoint ? I can´t see it ! Enlighten me.

Quote[/b] ]You need to stop spamming. Just trying to look at the whole picture.

Ah yes ? 400 shots fired at a car that passed several checkpoints, reached the inner sec-circ of Baghdad airport, announced by italian coalition forces, declared as "high valuable object", getting shot at, killing one, injuring 2 ? that´s the picture I get. That´s the picture the people onboard got.

Talk of bullshit. Talk of lack of com. Talk of failure, but don´t talk of spam. Not you billybob. Provide facts, provide word, provide info, but don´t try to cheat us into another "this is all made up".

People died or got seriously injured because of that shit and the only reason why this made it into the press was that the persons involved were some kind of people who had some reputation or people cared about them. If you transport this incident to the general Iraqi situation you´ll know that the coalition forces in service act anything but effective or professional. That´s the bottom line.

You are the one jumping to conclusions, bals. The americans said it happened at Checkpoint 504-Camp Victory near Baghdad airport and we do not know if she passed through Iraqi/American checkpoints or none(http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0307/p01s04-woiq.html ). She said in a new audio interview that it was a "tank" that fired at the car. This raises doubt on her in that she said it was a "american patrol" that fired on the car originally. Which one was it? A tank or patrol. In addition, if "400 rounds" were fired at that compact car, that car would had been swiss cheese and probably nobody would of likely survived. Nevertheless, State Department official in Washington said the Italians did not tell either the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad or U.S. military commanders about Sgrena's release, even though a U.S. hostage coordinator had been working closely with them on the case ( http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm....005mar4 ) . The bottom line is that you cannot throw a blanket on every checkpoint incident. All the facts have not come out.

This raise my "wait for more info" alert after reading other interviews:

<a href="]http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=aRueVtaX.ri0" target='_blank'>]http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=aRueVtaX.ri0</a>

Quote[/b] ]

Shooting Started

Sgrena told Rome prosecutors Franco Ionta and Pietro Saviotti that the shots didn't come from soldiers standing at a checkpoint.

It wasn't a checkpoint, but a patrol that started shooting after pointing some lights in our direction,'' the Ansa news agency cited Sgrena as telling the prosecutors. ``We hadn't previously encountered any checkpoint and we didn't understand where the shots came from.''

Didn't you say she passed through some checkpoints?

[theavonlady 2]

Therefore you are pretty fast in swinging the Avon-flag of unshakeable trust in coaltion forces.

Obviously your English has degraded, if you could not comprehend my last post on this thread.

But I didn't jump onto this thread cleerleading the coalition. I jumped on countering the blind assumptions that the coalition MUST be guilty.

Sometimes I wonder whether people like you are waving red flags with hammers and sickles on them.

But it seems to be turning on right that this marxist crackpot can't tell a straight story. From Sgrena's CNN interview - the need for speed:

Quote[/b] ]'My truth'

........

The car kept on the road, going under an underpass full of puddles and almost losing control to avoid them. We all incredibly laughed. It was liberating. Losing control of the car in a street full of water in Baghdad and maybe wind up in a bad car accident after all I had been through would really be a tale I would not be able to tell. Nicola Calipari sat next to me. The driver twice called the embassy and in Italy that we were heading towards the airport that I knew was heavily patrolled by U.S. troops. They told me that we were less than a kilometer away...when...I only remember fire. At that point, a rain of fire and bullets hit us, shutting up forever the cheerful voices of a few minutes earlier.

........

[denoir 0]

But I didn't jump onto this thread cleerleading the coalition.

No, you jumped in badmouthing the Italian hostage and fellow forum members.

[theavonlady 2]

But I didn't jump onto this thread cleerleading the coalition.

No, you jumped in badmouthing the Italian hostage and fellow forum members.

Who badmouthed other forum members and the US without batting an eye.

Works both ways. If you want to dish it out, be prepared to take it.

And my bottom line - and I've clearly stated it - is that I don't know how anyone here can claim so much as to be eyewitnesses, though Sgrena's latest words are only indicating that the way they were driving and their attitude was not a healthy combination when driving towards US troops in a war zone.

And the pic of the car doesn't show anywhere near 400 rounds of high caliber ammunition being pumped into it.

And here's some more backpedalling by Sgrena, courtesy of the BBC. There is no claim anymore of a deliberate shooting. She has no idea. It's a tank that fired - not soldiers. The shooting stopped when shouts of "we're Italian" were made after the car came to a halt. Coupled with her CNN interview, showing a love for careless driving down the avenue, there's a lot of evidence, by Sgrena's own word of mouth, that this was either a bad mistake on the US troops part or that the way this car was driving was begging to be stopped by anything it would take.

Quote[/b] ]Transcript: Giuliana Sgrena interview

Transcript: Giuliana Sgrena interview  

In an interview with the BBC's World Today programme, freed Italian hostage Giuliana Sgrena began by describing the conditions in which she had been held hostage for a month.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What did your captors tell you when you were hostage?

That I needed to help them to ask [silvio] Berlusconi to withdraw the troops. They saw all what happens in Italy, demonstrations against the occupation, demonstrations for my liberation. And so they [became] aware that I was really working against the occupation and people were supporting me and so they told me: "We have seen that you are very appreciated in Italy". And that helped me to be freed.

You then became aware presumably that negotiations were going on about your possible release.

 I can't say it was deliberate because we can't say if there was a lack of information

I could imagine that negotiations were going on but I can't tell you more because I was not aware of what was the object of the negotiations. And when I was freed it was the last of my problems which kind of negotiations were going on.

You do not know whether money was paid for your freedom?

No, I don't know.

Tell us about the man [italian security agent Nicola Calipari] who came to try and secure your release.

I saw him for the first time when he came to [collect] me. He was a very special man. I immediately felt in contact with him and he gave me hope. But this was too short because he died after half an hour.

Tell us about the car journey you shared with him.

We were on our way to the airport when the tanks started to strike against us and he tried to cover me and he was shot. He died and, me, I was safe but he was dead.

When did you become aware that your car was being fired at?

We had no signal. We were just on the way to the airport. They started to shoot at us without any light or signal. There was no block, there was nothing. It was so immediate. I didn't know how I was alive after all that attack.

Why do you think the Americans opened fire?

We were not a hidden car. We were just a car on the road with lights and we were not running without any signal. So you have to ask the Americans because we don't know what happened.

Nicola Calipari died protecting Ms Sgrena

Did the Americans continue to fire when your car had come to a halt?

Our car was destroyed. And then the driver got out and was shouting "we're Italian, we're Italian". So they came and they saw what happened. But I was badly injured so I can't explain exactly what happened after because I was waiting for 20 minutes on the road for a military car to bring me to the hospital.

I don't know if they knew what they were doing or not but it's a big responsibility so they have to respond to what happened because it's impossible to shoot a car on a road to the airport without giving any signal, any stop or any check.

Do you think it was deliberate?

I can't say it was deliberate because we can't say if there was a lack of information. But also a lack of information in this case is [their] responsibility because you are in a war field and you have the responsibility to pass immediately any information.

The information was given to the Italians to tell the Americans that we were on the road. Now, I can't say why they shot at us in this way but it's a very big responsibility and we ask for a response on what happened.

So what did this security agent do when he heard the firing?

When the driver said "they're attacking us", one of the [agents] tried to say we're Italians but it was impossible to get out of the car because the car was under this rain of fire.

And the other one tried to protect me and he died. I was pushing down to avoid the bullets and after I don't know how long, I found that he was dead.

He died in your arms?

Yes.

How do you feel about the man who saved your life?

I am very, very sad and feel pain for him. I'm sorry not to be able to go to the funeral because I am in hospital.

He was a brave man.

Yes.

UPDATE:Apparently it is now being reported that the pic of the car distributed by the Associated Press that's been widely assumed to be the one Sgrena was injured in, was not. In fact, apparently that's the car that Sgrena was abducted from a month ago. Great editing, AP!

Here's the AP video that has the car scene from the kidnapping spliced into it:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm....f847688

[der bastler 0]

Sometimes I wonder whether people like you are waving red flags with hammers and sickles on them.

Neo-McCarthyism?

Seems brgnorway was right, the level of discussion is going down the drain...

[theavonlady 2]

Neo-McCarthyism?

Neo-Leninism/Trotskyism/Stalinism?

Silly insulting game you're playing, isn't it?

Quote[/b] ]Seems brgnorway was right, the level of discussion is going down the drain...

Thanks for the assist.