The Iraq thread 4

[billybob2002 0]

ouch, even more info....

http://www.thekcrachannel.com/news/4085077/detail.html

Quote[/b] ]

Police: Marine On Drugs During Fatal Shooting

Raya Laid To Rest

POSTED: 4:21 pm PST January 14, 2005

UPDATED: 5:24 pm PST January 14, 2005

CERES, Calif. -- A Marine who killed one police officer and severely wounded another during a shooting in Northern California this week was high on drugs, according to investigators.

Authorities say a weeklong investigation confirmed that Andres Raya (pictured, right), a Marine who was headed back to Iraq, was a known gang member and never actually saw combat in Iraq, which are factors that, investigators say, prove the soldier did not have post-traumatic stress disorder when he killed Sgt. Howard Stevenson (pictured, below) and critically injured Officer Sam Ryno in a shooting in Ceres Jan. 9.

Raya was later killed by police in a nearby alley. Authorities are investigating Sunday's gunfight as a "suicide by cop."

"Raya admitted to his fellow Marines he was a Norteno gang member," said Stanislaus County Sheriff's Department spokesman Lt. Bill Heyne. "Raya talked about how screwed up the world was, and that the end was near."

Investigators said a weeklong investigation proves Raya couldn't have developed mental illness in Iraq.

"In essence, he drove around Humvees and trucks for the military. He was not, I repeat, not in a combat unit and did not see combat in Iraq," Heyne said.

Raya's family says its son witnessed death and destruction in Iraq, but Marine officials said stories Raya told them are either exaggerated or not true.

"No one close to him was killed in combat. He was not in Fallujah. (There is) no indication he ever fired his weapon," Heyne said.

Officials say there is surveillance video from Ceres High School last month that shows Raya was involved with the Norteno gang and used illegal drugs. And a toxicology report indicated that Raya had a large amount of cocaine in his system when he killed Stevenson.

As for the weapon Raya used in the shooting, investigators said that Raya told fellow Marines he had purchased an SKS assault rifle in Modesto.

"When asked why, he responded, '(A) 7.62 round could penetrate a cop's armor,'" Heyne said.

A motive in the shooting is not clear, but Heyne believes it's an idea Raya may have had before his Marine days. A shopping list was found in a safe in Raya's room, dated March 2002. It included an AR-15 rifle.

"Had we known these things, he would have been bounced out of the Marines quicker than a heartbeat," said Marine Corp spokesman T.V. Johnson.

As for why Raya would volunteer to go to war, investigators say it is their biggest fear.

"In reality, he got the training to carry out what he did that night on those officers. What he did is straight out of the military," Heyne said.

Also on Friday, a funeral service was held for Raya, and he was later laid to rest in the city of Hughson. He was not given full military honors that the family had sought, meaning there was no honor guard, no 21-gun salute, and no American flag handed t the family.

There was no official delegation from the U.S. Marines, just two Marine casualty officers as observers. Marine officials said he did not receive full military honors because "Raya's actions have dishonored himself and the Marine Corp."

Ironically, Raya's final resting place is just of few yards from a memorial for Stanislaus County peace officers, where there were fresh flowers in honor of fallen Officer Stevenson.

ouch

[theavonlady 2]

ouch, even more info....

http://www.thekcrachannel.com/news/4085077/detail.html

Quote[/b] ]

Police: Marine On Drugs During Fatal Shooting

Speaking of crack Al Qaeda troops:

Quote[/b] ]NARCOTIC FERVOR: Fallujah insurgents were addicted to more than mayhem

By TONY PERRY

Los Angeles Times

FALLUJAH, Iraq - Although the ferocity of insurgents is generally attributed to religious fervor and a hatred of America, Marines who participated in the November assault on Fallujah say many of their foes also had something else to bolster their tenacity: drugs.

The Marines say they found numerous stockpiles of needles and drugs such as adrenaline and amphetamines while battling insurgents in the fiercest urban combat waged by U.S. forces since the Vietnam War.

In some homes used by insurgents, crack pipes were found, the Marines say.

Senior U.S. military officials in Iraq say some of the drug caches discovered during the Fallujah offensive had an estimated street value of several thousand dollars.

Top military officials consider the discoveries evidence not just of drug use among insurgents, but also of smuggling operations that they say the Sunni Muslim rebels in Fallujah may have been using to finance the insurgency.

"They are just as likely to be indications of drug smuggling as insurgents being doped up to provide stamina or have the courage to fight and die," a senior military official in Baghdad said.

Officers in Iraq say soldiers and Marines found similar evidence of drug use among Shiite Muslim militiamen during April and August uprisings in Najaf.

The conduct of many of the insurgents during the fighting in Fallujah suggested that they had ingested drugs that allowed them to continue fighting even after being severely wounded, Marines and Navy medical corpsmen say.

"One guy described it as like watching the `Night of the Living Dead,' " corpsman Peter Melady said. "People who should have been dead were still alive."

Marines say the information prompted them to change their strategy on how best to kill their enemy.

"On the second day of the fight, word came down to focus on head shots, that body shots were not good enough," said 1st Lt. Tim Strabbing, a platoon leader with the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, one of lead units in the assault to oust the insurgents. The battalion, known as the Thundering Third, suffered 23 dead and 300 wounded.

Strabbing said his platoon found five locations with stockpiles of needles and adrenaline. "My guys put five (machine gun) rounds into a guy who just stood there and took it and then took off running," he said.

Stimulants can allow the body to continue functioning despite mortal wounds, momentarily forestalling, although not preventing, death, medical experts say.

Many combat veterans recall watching insurgents in Fallujah who had been shot at close range return fire and hurl grenades at Marines who stormed their strongholds.

"We actually shot four or five guys multiple times and they got up and moved across the room," said corpsman Quinton Brown, who had accompanied a front-line platoon to treat wounded Marines.

"It reminded me of the stories you hear about people on PCP who just keep going," 1st Lt. Cosmo Calvin said. "I think it's safe to say that nearly 100 percent were doped up on this stuff."

Second Lt. Adam Mathes said the fighting tempo of the insurgents seemed to suggest drug use: hyper-energy in the morning and early afternoon, possibly after a fix, and then less energy as the day wore on.

"When you see a house land on somebody and they're still kicking, you know something is wrong," he said.

[DracoPaladore 0]

Must be horrible for morale with marines

Reminds me of things I heard about in Africa, with militia and fanatics running around with missing limbs.

[Baphomet 0]

Quote[/b] ]"Raya admitted to his fellow Marines he was a Norteno gang member," said Stanislaus County Sheriff's Department spokesman Lt. Bill Heyne. "Raya talked about how screwed up the world was, and that the end was near."

Investigators said a weeklong investigation proves Raya couldn't have developed mental illness in Iraq.

"In essence, he drove around Humvees and trucks for the military. He was not, I repeat, not in a combat unit and did not see combat in Iraq," Heyne said.

Raya's family says its son witnessed death and destruction in Iraq, but Marine officials said stories Raya told them are either exaggerated or not true.

Sounds like a white wash to me. Damage control obviously. Regardless of whether you believe he was the victim of mental illness. At this point it's readily conceivable that they'd spew anything at all to discredit and wash their hands of this individual and the incident, by any means necessary.

You're a fool to think that your nation's military especially your army wouldn't have a fair share of ex gang members in it's ranks. It's usually the best career people from low income families can do in a lot of situations. The job also precludes the use of deadly force and violence. This again is going to be something of familiarity to a gang member. Military propaganda also sensationalizes the violence of combat putting a patriotic or exciting spin on it. Of course you're going to attract people who have a history of violence or sadism. The ringleader in the Abu-Ghraib abuse incident was a spouse abuser. The point is that it's not aberrant for people proclive to violence to enlist in the military. It's just when that violence is misdirected that they have a problem. Clearly in this case something during his service in Iraq made him snap.

Furthermore. People are not like ninjas, they don't flip out and kill people for no reason at all. Saying he couldn't be exposed to combat or anything remotely unsettling as a marine soldier in Iraq is like saying you're not going to find ice cream when you go to Baskin Robbins. In short, mitigating if not flat out denying the situation in Iraq as a catalyst for this incident is truly absurd and unreasonable.

[Akira 0]

Ninjas??

[Baphomet 0]

Yeah. You know. The possessors of the "real ultimate power â„¢"? There are three well known and immutable truths about the mysterious ninja:

1.    Ninjas are mammals.

2.    Ninjas fight ALL the time.

3.    The purpose of the ninja is to flip out and kill people.

Having said that. We (myself at least) can ascertain through observation of the behavior of the general public that the bulk of the population living on the north american continent are in fact not ninjas. This includes Andres Raya, so we can pretty much exclude any possibility of him flipping out and killing people for no reason whatsoever.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

german source

North of Iraq. American plane crashes into hole on the runway!

since when are those people doing their job? Flight control forgot to mention that there is a big hole in the runway because of construction works....

how the hell can you forget to mention that?  

[theavonlady 2]

[Ares1978 0]

Waiting for some Iraqi group to claim responsibility for making that hole.

[EiZei 0]

Pothole martyrs?

[theavonlady 2]

Waiting for some Iraqi group to claim responsibility for making that hole.

May not have to if it occurred in one of Iraq's holey cities.

Quote[/b] ]Pothole martyrs?

Trench warfare.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

jihad suicide diggers!

vs.

Runway Anti Destruction Squad (RADS)

[theavonlady 2]

http://www.news.navy.mil/management/photodb/webphoto/web_030429-N-2517J-003.jpg

I hope that's not quick-dry cement!

[Akira 0]

Yeah. You know. The possessors of the "real ultimate power â„¢"? There are three well known and immutable truths about the mysterious ninja:

1. Ninjas are mammals.

2. Ninjas fight ALL the time.

3. The purpose of the ninja is to flip out and kill people.

Having said that. We (myself at least) can ascertain through observation of the behavior of the general public that the bulk of the population living on the north american continent are in fact not ninjas. This includes Andres Raya, so we can pretty much exclude any possibility of him flipping out and killing people for no reason whatsoever.

LOL

I can't argue with that logic

[ozanzac 0]

From an online translator, the plane was 'travelling in darkness'...So, we can assume the lighting conditions were poor, and that the pilots had very little chance of spotting the ditch before it was too late...That would have been one hell of a suprise!

[Baphomet 0]

Judging from the accident that hole didn't look too big, however it was just deep enough to effectively shuck the plane of it's landing gear and send it skidding on the pavement for a quite a distance. That would have been a quite a start for the crew onboard.

[billybob2002 0]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...._s_aide

Quote[/b] ]

Tape: Al-Zarqawi Aide May Have Been Killed

Thu Jan 20, 6:03 PM ET   Middle East - AP

BAGHDAD, Iraq - A speaker believed to be al-Qaida's leader in Iraq (news - web sites) said in an audiotape found on the Internet Thursday that one of his top lieutenants was killed in last year's U.S.-led assault on the insurgent stronghold of Fallujah.

The speaker, claiming to be Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, said top aide Omar Hadid was killed during fighting in November when U.S. and Iraqi forces recaptured the city.

It was the first public report by the insurgents that Hadid, a leading guerrilla commander in the city, was dead. It was widely believed that Hadid, who was in his 30s, fled the city as it was being attacked.

"Days after the battle began, one of the commanders suggested to brother Omar Hadid and brother Abu Harith Mohammed Jasem al-Issawi to shave their beards and leave Fallujah through a safe exit so that they can start working from outside," the speaker said.

"The two heroes refused, saying: 'By God we will not leave as long as there is one immigrant fighting in the city.' They were martyred. May God's mercy be upon them."

The authenticity of the tape could not immediately be verified.

Al-Zarqawi hinted that the battle of Fallujah was the beginning of a long war.

"Ferocious wars are not determined by the outcome of days or weeks," the speaker on the tape said. "They take their time until it's time to announce the victory of one of the parties."

Al-Zarqawi is the leader of an al-Qaida affiliate that was responsible for kidnapping and beheading several foreigners, including Americans, before the fall of their Fallujah base. The United States has offered a $25 million reward for al-Zarqawi's capture or death — the same amount as for Osama bin Laden (news - web sites).

Didn't Quckie post something on Omar...

[Daddl 10]

Judging from the accident that hole didn't look too big, however it was just deep enough to effectively shuck the plane of it's landing gear and send it skidding on the pavement for a quite a distance. That would have been a quite a start for the crew onboard.

Not a big hole? Admittedly it wasn't very deep, but I wouldn't call that small:

[Necromancer- 0]

new form of terrorist attack?

Removing landing plates of runways?

[Baphomet 0]

Quote[/b] ]Video: Sidewalk Beheadings

2 Killed as Cars, Pedestrians Pass By:

Zarqawi group beheads two Iraqis -Web site

DUBAI, Jan 21 (Reuters) - A group led by al Qaeda ally Abu Musab al-Zarqawi beheaded two Iraqis who said they worked at a U.S. base in Iraq and the group posted an Internet video of the killings on Friday.

Quote[/b] ]A statement by the group which appeared on the video warned that this would be the fate of those who "sold their religion and honour for the pleasures of life" and labelled them atheists and rejectionists -- what Sunni militants call Shi'ite Muslims.

Basically from what I've -seen- it's a streetside beheading in broad daylight. In full view of passers by and all. Truly horrific to behold.

The news agencies are finally catching up and posting info about this. I knew about it a little while ago. It's truly revolting. They're definitely taking things to an extreme with the impending elections. Obviously the back of the insurgency is not broken.

This does not bode well for the current conflict. You can raze as many cities as you like. In my opinion it won't stop crazies like this. The whole rationale some have of just leveling the place because of the situation is about as fair as what these sick bastards are doing exposing and essentially threatening iraqi civilians, particularly shi'ites. Although admittedly I had a hard time wondering whether or not the cars honking in the background were just honking or cheering on the executions...

Either way it's a fine mess this country's getting into. I cannot see elections simply fixing this. In fact once elections take place there will be a definite target for terrorist and insurgent alike to set their sights on. Which they can further exploit to influence and demoralize the iraqi civilian population.

Officially I think the current situation Iraq has progressed to the point of surpassing if not equaling anything as bad as the previous regime had imposed upon it's people. Only twofold in a way. You have people of your own kind killing you for trying to take action and work towards the rebuilding effort, and you have the occupiers who say they're helping you whilst at the same time blowing away your family in bombing raids, helicopter strafings and at checkpoints.

In this incident one might contend that only two people died, but it's the manner of their execution, done in such a brazenly open manner that to me indicates things are about to drastically change for the worse.

[ralphwiggum 6]

http://www.cnn.com/2005....ex.html

Quote[/b] ]WASHINGTON (AP) -- Vice President Dick Cheney said Thursday that he overestimated the pace of Iraq's recovery from the U.S.-led invasion because he didn't realize the lasting devastation wrought by Saddam Hussein on his people after the first Gulf War.

Asked to name his mistakes in planning the war in Iraq, Cheney said he had not anticipated how long it would take the Iraqis to begin running their own country. Not until after Saddam was ousted did the United States realize the extent of the Iraqi leader's brutality in putting down revolt in 1991, Cheney said.

"I think the hundreds of thousands of people who were slaughtered at the time, including anybody who had the gumption to stand up and challenge him, made the situation tougher than I would have thought," he said on "The Don Imus Show" on the radio.

"I would chalk that one up as a miscalculation, where I thought things would have recovered more quickly," Cheney said.

Classic blame the other guy argument. It was TBA that decided to go to war, they should have prepared for it. When Clinton 'mistakes' in personal life, he had to go through impeachment. I say Cheney needs to get some ass whooping.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/01/22/iraq.main/index.html

Quote[/b] ]BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Extraordinary security measures, including a ban on weapons, restrictions on who may drive and a curfew, will be in place before and during elections on January 30, a top Iraqi official said Saturday.

"The government's goal is to provide a secure Iraq," Interior Minister Falah Al-Nakib said. "We have taken all necessary procedures to secure this purpose. All our security forces have been put on alert ... all citizens should abide by these rules and measures."

Also, Baghdad's airport will be closed on January 29 and 30, Al-Nakib said.

January 29, 30 and 31 have been declared holidays in Iraq, the minister said. Many areas will have a curfew from 8 p.m. until 6 a.m. on those days and anyone in violation will be arrested, he said.

Carrying weapons will be banned. Anyone violating the ban will be arrested and the weapons confiscated, he said.

Driving on the streets will be restricted, Al-Nakib said, to elections supervisors and other officials.

Instead, the Iraqi interior and transportation ministries will provide transportation for voters needing help to get to the polls.

Iraq's borders will be closed except to Iraqis returning from the annual Hajj pilgrimage, the minister said. Baghdad's airport will be closed January 29 and 30, and no transfer will be permitted between provinces.

Walking in and around the polling places will be restricted, Al-Nakib said.

wow, nice to know that gun control is in works. can't beleive the phrase 'an armed society is a polite society' is not working...

[Baphomet 0]

Quote[/b] ]Vice President Dick Cheney said Thursday that he overestimated the pace of Iraq's recovery from the U.S.-led invasion because he didn't realize the lasting devastation wrought by Saddam Hussein on his people after the first Gulf War.

What's more relevant? A devastated country with a marginally willing population to rebuild. Or what is readily turning into a civil war with the US sort of stoking the fires. The insurgents and terrorist cells are pissed off and the U.S is going about in the most hamfisted way possible of dealing with it. I'd equate the assault on Fallujah to a failed parlor trick in which someone attempts to yank out a tablecloth from beneath a fully set table. Only thing is. They obviously didn't get all of the tablecloth, if you get my analogy, they sure did make a mess of the rest of the table though.

This current conflict is doing far more currently, to the detrement of Iraq's people and infrastructure than the previous conflict did.

Quote[/b] ]Driving on the streets will be restricted, Al-Nakib said, to elections supervisors and other officials.

That changes what? So now insurgents will shoot rpgs from buildings, knowing unequivocally that who they're shooting at is their intended target.

Quote[/b] ]wow, nice to know that gun control is in works. can't beleive the phrase 'an armed society is a polite society' is not working...

Surprising isn't it?

A society that's stable and conditioned to behave in a civilized manner will be a polite society. It is that which keeps those individuals with guns from turning into the people you see in the streets on Iraq. Not the other way around.

Teach people the value and benefits of a stable and peaceful society and they'll be less proclive to kill. Unless you're of course some crazy nihilistic death worshipper who wants to cut people's heads off in the streets.

[Baphomet 0]

Quote[/b] ]

Army Prepares 'Robo-Soldier' for Iraq:

The rain is turning to snow on a blustery January morning, and all the men gathered in a parking lot here surely would prefer to be inside. But the weather couldn't matter less to the robotic sharpshooter they are here to watch as it splashes through puddles, the barrel of its machine gun pointing the way like Pinocchio's nose.

I'll be interested to see how this shapes up. I can't imagine they won't have their complications. I can see something like that blowing away a few civilians. I would personally love to see a whole bunch of insurgents prancing and shouting about in the street trying to beat one of those things with a metal pipe. Watching it clumsily turn about trying to shoot them would be hilarious too. On a practical note however, this could be the thing the U.S forces need to use when they want to scout out an area they are pretty sure has insurgents holed up. This would draw and sustain fire long enough to reveal their position and potentially sway a battle. I still really don't like the idea of putting rpgs on the thing though. What this could potentially do is put U.S soldiers well out of harms way and further encourage the usage of excessive force with a lot of collateral damage resulting.

Picture.

linch.

Quote[/b] ]A car bomb exploded outside a Shiite mosque Friday where worshippers were celebrating a major Muslim holiday, and a suicide bombers set off an explosives-packed ambulance at a Shiite wedding in attacks that killed at least 21 people and wounded dozens, police and hospital officials said.

The attacks were the latest to target Shiites ahead of the Jan. 30 parliamentary and provincial elections, and they came a day after a chief terror leader in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, denounced Shiites in an Internet audio recording. It was the second blast this week outside a Shiite mosque in the capital this week.

The fact that Zarqawi allegedly denounced the Shiite majority is divisive and will probably make the U.S/coalition effort there at least somewhat easier or at least feasible. It certainly does not help their cause in any way.

link.

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]I'll be interested to see how this shapes up. I can't imagine they won't have their complications. I can see something like that blowing away a few civilians.

It won't in Iraq..

Go home Yanks, says PM in waiting

Quote[/b] ]THE Shi’ite Muslim cleric tipped to become prime minister after next Sunday’s election in Iraq has said it will be the duty of the new government to demand the withdrawal of American forces “as soon as possibleâ€.

“No people in the world accepts occupation and nor do we accept the continuation of American troops in Iraq,†said Abdul Aziz al-Hakim, leader of the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq.

“We regard these forces to have committed many mistakes in the handling of various issues, the first and foremost being that of security, which in turn has contributed to the massacres, crimes and calamities that have taken place in Iraq against the Iraqis.â€

In comments certain to raise eyebrows in the United States, al-Hakim spoke of a role for Iran and Syria — both regarded in Washington as enemies in the war on terror — along with Iraq’s other neighbours, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Kuwait, in the security of the country.

“These countries have past experiences and good security forces and with good relations we can solve this problem together,†he said.

“Should the security problem continue, it will not end at the border of Iraq but extend to their countries.â€

Al-Hakim, who heads a list of 228 candidates representing the United Iraqi Alliance — a coalition of the main Shi’ite factions — refused to be drawn into specifying a timetable for American withdrawal, saying that the details had to be worked out after the election.

However, speaking slowly and emphatically, he added: “Iraq can rely on itself and its people and it does not want foreign troops in its country.â€

President George W Bush’s administration has said that an Iraqi request for the removal of the 173,000 American and other foreign troops in the country would be honoured but declined to give any indication of timing.

Britain does not want to keep troops in Iraq for “a moment longer than we need toâ€, the Foreign Office said yesterday. “It’s a matter of staying sufficiently long for the Iraqis to be sufficiently robust to achieve security.â€

The powerful alliance headed by al-Hakim was formed on the initiative of Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, Iraq’s most revered spiritual leader. It is expected to win a majority of seats in the 275-member transitional national assembly, from which the prime minister will be chosen.

The election is being boycotted by most Sunni political parties, both secular and religious. Although outnumbered by the Shi’ite majority, the Sunnis dominated Iraq under Saddam Hussein but will emerge from the election with their influence sharply reduced.

Bush has heralded the election as the first test of his hopes for the spread of democracy to the Middle East but the administration appears increasingly concerned about the Shi’ite-dominated government that it is now expected to produce.

Further cause for pessimism has emerged with an American intelligence report warning that the elections will be followed by more violence, with an increased likelihood of clashes between Shi’ites and Sunnis that could lead to civil war.

It is all a far cry from Bush’s earlier vision of a secular Iraq that would become a crucial ally in the Middle East.

To give further light to this,Hakim is the leader of the party that was located in Iran for decades in exile,his relationship with the Iranian government is as close as it could ever be,he is a fundamentalist and you can place a safe bet on Iraq becoming close knit copy cat of Iran with him in power.

All though he is favoured to win there are other powerful candidates .For example former Al-Sadr frontman Fattahlah Ghazi al-Esmaili is running and expected to win some important votes in the forthcoming ellection,his strategy is also clear:Complete immidiate US withdrawl from the country.

It's obvious that both by the political pressure of a a democraticly ellected government and the increasingly effective resistance to the occupation,US days in Iraq are numbered and they will be finally forced to withdraw,all though Bush will probably take pride that the sharia imposing government which hates USA guts and will be facing a possible Shia-Sunni civil war,fuel and electricity shortages in a country which was once worlds top exporters is indeed democraticly ellected.

[python3 0]

well, if the US is forced to withdraw and the Shi'ites take over and a whole civil war begins with war crimes etc., i think it would turn into a wider ME conflict between Arabs and persians. Most of the Arab world being Sunni with small Shi'ite minorities will not take the The Shi'ites power move in iraq cuz that will serve as inspiration to their own minorities. It will be 1988 all over again.That or Iraq will split up. either way you look at it the US will have failed.

Iran next?.............hahahaha, i really dont think so, not unless the american people dont learn from their mistakes.