The Iraq thread 4

[Baphomet 0]

Quote[/b] ]Rumsfeld said insurgents would likely put up a tough fight. ``Listen these folks are determined. These are killers. They chop people's heads off. They're getting money from around the world. They're getting recruits,'' he told reporters.

I really don't like how the guy has basically lumped both the murderers and insurgents into the same category. That's basically saying that every U.S soldier that participated in the vietnam war were depraved baby killing rapists.

Quote[/b] ]``One part of the country cannot remain under the rule of assassins ... and the remnants of Saddam Hussein's regime,'' Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said. He predicted ``there aren't going be large numbers of civilians killed and certainly not by U.S. forces.''

It's also very convenient to label them assassins just because they set up a few roadside bombs or employ guerilla tactics. I'd say most nation's military forces have employed those at some point. I also seriously wonder if there are any supporters left over from Saddam's regime actually heading up the insurgency. To me it seems like a lot of them are very religiously oriented, as I understood Saddam kept those types under tight reins when his government was in power. Sounds like propaganda to me. As we all know the undisputedly negative connotations that Saddam, and assassin carry. Not to mention "killers". They all must be hellspawn to be opposing the United States.

Quote[/b] ]U.S. troops cut off electricity to the city, and most private generators were not working. Residents said they were without running water and were worried about food shortages because most shops in the city have been closed for the past two days.

Masked insurgents roamed Fallujah streets throughout the day. One group of four fighters, two of them draped with belts of ammunition, moved through narrow passageways, firing on U.S. forces with small arms and mortars. Mosque loudspeakers blared, ``God is great, God is great.''

It seems that U.S forces are taking to this offensive with a certain degree of careful thought and planning... given the above excerpt. The insurgents at this point seem to be flying headlong into a outright conflict that they'll probably lose considerable numbers in. Still, hearing allahu ackbar for hours on end would get really annoying for those U.S troops.

Link to quoted material.

[quicksand 0]

Rebels Kill 25 Police in Attacks in Iraq's Baquba

Quote[/b] ]BAQUBA, Iraq (Reuters) - Insurgents attacked three police stations in the town of Baquba northeast of Baghdad on Tuesday, killing 25 policemen and wounding many more, police said.

They said the attacks had hit the Wahda, Tahrir and Mafraq police stations in the city, 40 miles from the Iraqi capital. Insurgents had also attacked a key bridge and warned residents in leaflets to stay at home.

Chopper shot down in Fallujah

Quote[/b] ]FALLUJA, Iraq (Reuters) - A U.S. helicopter was shot down over Falluja on Tuesday as U.S.-led forces were pressing home an offensive on the rebel-held city.

"I saw the helicopter collide with a rocket. It turned into a ball of fire and fell to the ground," said Reuters reporter Fadel al-Badrani. "There was smoke everywhere."

As I suspected the rebels didn't want to fight at night because they most likely don't have necesary equipment now in broad day light when the marines are massed at the outskirts of the Jolan district where their stronghold are,well it will be an intresting battle.

[quicksand 0]

REUTERS:US airstike destroy another hospital

Quote[/b] ]Residents said U.S. bombardment had destroyed a Falluja clinic that had been receiving casualties after U.S. and Iraqi forces seized the city's main hospital on Monday night.

Some medical staff and patients had been killed at the clinic in a central district, they added.

Doctors said at least 15 civilians had been killed in Monday's fighting. There was no word on U.S. casualties.

They destroyed a hospital right before the siege,captured the most important one during the first day not allowing ambulances to move into the city and now they destroy yet another one killing doctors and patiance inside.

WHAT THE FUCK are they doing?Geneva convention,''entering the city with grave concern over civillian casualties'' I am apaulled and sicken all the way to my stomach.

I never posted one comment in such strong words but what they are doing is beyond resonable and defies everything humanity should stand for.

[Baphomet 0]

Quote[/b] ]A doctor at a clinic in Fallujah, Mohammed Amer, reported 12 people were killed. Seventeen others, including a 5-year-old girl and a 10-year-old boy, were wounded, he said.

I wonder if it was the same place...

I certainly hope not.

At any rate. The above article is the an example of stuff that fuels the insurgent's desire to fight. It's a bitter cycle.

[denoir 0]

U.S. GIs Push Into Rebel Haven of Fallujah [Washington Post / AP]

Quote[/b] ]

NEAR FALLUJAH, Iraq - U.S. Army and Marine units roared into the insurgent stronghold of Fallujah through a breach near the railroad station at dawn Tuesday, facing lighter-than-expected resistance as they began house-to-house searches in the second day of their drive to retake the city from Islamic militants.

Heavy machine gun fire crackled from the eastern and central parts of the city and black smoke rose from near a mosque. The military said the advance into the northwestern Jolan section was going "smoothly" with minimal collateral damage despite round-the-clock bombardment.

"That's our guys fighting right now," said Maj. Clark Watson, with 3rd Battalion 1st Marine Regiment, as machine guns jackhammered nearby. "It's going well, it's a good day."

Heavy street fighting was underway in the northern sectors of Fallujah, residents said. At least two American tanks were engulfed in flames, witnesses said. Residents also said a small clinic had been destroyed by bombing. There was no confirmation of casualties. Overnight Tuesday the skies over Fallujah lit up with flashes of air and artillery barrages as American forces laid siege to the city that had become the major sanctuary for Islamic extremists who fought Marines to a standstill last April.

A U.S. military spokesman estimated that 42 insurgents were killed across the city in bombardment and skirmishes before the main assault began Monday. Two Marines were killed when their bulldozer flipped over into the Euphrates near Fallujah.

U.S. troops, backed by tanks and Humvees, had advance on the city slowly from two sides, the northeastern Askari neighborhood and the Jolan neighborhood, a warren of alleyways where Sunni militants have dug in.

Just to the north of Jolan, Iraqi troops deployed with U.S. forces took over the strategic train station, opening the breach that allowed the Army and Marines to penetrate toward the city center. Artillery, tanks and warplanes had pounded the district's northern edge overnight, softening the defenses and trying to set off any bombs or boobytraps planted by the militants.

This reporter, located at a U.S. camp near the city, saw orange explosions lighting up the district's palm trees, minarets and dusty roofs, and a fire burning on the city's edge. A U.S. jet fired an air-to-ground missile at a building late Monday from which U.S. and Iraqi forces had taken fire, the U.S. command said. The building was destroyed.

U.S. troops cut off electricity to the city, and most private generators were not working - either because their owners wanted to conserve fuel or the wires had been damaged by explosions.

Residents said they were without running water and were worried about food shortages because most shops in the city have been closed for the past two days.

Masked insurgents had roamed Fallujah streets throughout the day Monday. One group of four fighters, two of them draped with belts of ammunition, moved through narrow passageways, firing on U.S. forces with small arms and mortars. Mosque loudspeakers blared, "God is great, God is great."

[quicksand 0]

US marines seize center of Fallujah

Quote[/b] ]FALLUJA, Iraq (Reuters) - U.S. and Iraqi forces punched to the heart of Falluja on Tuesday, consolidating positions in Iraq's most rebellious city after a day of fierce combat.

While bursts of gunfire could still be heard in some districts, residents said the sound of heavy bombardments and explosions eased off around 4:15 p.m. after a night and day of intense fighting between U.S.-led forces and rebels.

An American soldier wounded in Falluja said he had seen two of his colleagues killed.

"A buddy of mine and another soldier were killed and I have seen about 50 other wounded (U.S.) soldiers since the fighting began," he told Reuters while awaiting medical evacuation. He declined to give his name.

A Reuters reporter saw about five wounded soldiers being flown out by helicopter and a U.S. military ambulance driver also said he had witnessed many casualties.

Among the Iraqis killed was a nine-year-old boy, severely injured by shrapnel in the abdomen when his home was bombarded by U.S. jets overnight. His parents were unable to get him to hospital and he died hours later of blood loss, they said.

As battles raged in Falluja, insurgents hit back elsewhere with bloody attacks in Baquba and other cities in which some 60 people have been killed since Monday night.

Interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi, making fresh use of emergency powers he activated on Sunday, imposed a night curfew on Baghdad for an indefinite period.

A statement said the curfew would be in force from 10:30 p.m. to 4 a.m. with immediate effect

Iraqi insurgents seize centre of Ramadi

Quote[/b] ]Insurgents jubilate in centre of Ramadi as US snipers withdraw from their positions following 24 hours of clashes.

RAMADI, Iraq - Rebel fighters massed in the centre of the restive Iraqi city of Ramadi Tuesday after US military snipers withdrew from their positions following 24 hours of clashes, an AFP correspondent said.

The US military could not immediately be contacted for comment.

US snipers left a hotel from where they were able to control most of Ramadi's main roads, but the military remained in its headquarters in the governor's office nearby, the correspondent said.

Other US soldiers left the city for their bases in the east and west of the city.

As the snipers departed, large crowds of armed insurgents, their faces hidden by scarves, began dancing in the street and shooting in to the air, yelling "Allah Akbar" (God is great).

Banners proclaiming solidarity with insurgents in Fallujah, where US-led forces launched a massive offensive to retake the city on Monday, were hung in the streets.

"The residents of Ramadi condemn the attack against Fallujah and we appeal to the inhabitants of Ramadi to wage jihad against the American occupants who want to eradicate Islam," said one man who did not want to be named.

Seven Iraqis were killed and 24 were injured during the previous day's fighting, said Dr Saad Dulaimi at Ramadi's main hospital, although he said it was unclear how many of the casualties were insurgents.

This is sure geting us somewhere

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]This is sure geting us somewhere  

Classic! You bitch when I say something and call it childish. What the hell is that you posted?

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

My advise, go have a look at Reuters and check out the recent footages of today. It is worth a look and no "cruel" images are being shown.

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]This is sure geting us somewhere  

Classic! You bitch when I say something and call it childish. What the hell is that you posted?

Billy,billy,billy either this is yet another one of your 5:00 AM escapades on the forum or you are less able to comprehend a cristal clear message with absolutley no substrat in it then I ever fought.

US marines seize center of Fallujah

Iraqi insurgents seize centre of Ramadi

Quote[/b] ]You bitch...

Now you see,we have a problem.I come to this forums for civillised discussions and debates.While your flawed one line rethorics and ravings are at many times irking for many of us, many also try to help you acheive a better grasp of understanding no mather how futile our effort might be as do I.Would you like to point out comments that wear my signature where I ''bitch'' as you so graciously call it or maybe think longer before you engange in such immature flambiting.

Quote[/b] ]What the hell is that you posted?

Well billybob as you might have noticed in my posts I am comited to the day when Iraqis will have a better future at hand emarging from this catastrophic conflict no mather if the agressor in this case US has to stay in the country and quell the insurgency.

But when just at the very moment US marines are taking control of Fallujah centre the rebels are doing the exact same thing in the capital of the province at stake,a city that wears an even greater strategic importance well I sincerly don't consider that ''this is sure geting us somewhere'' comment is out line.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Would you like to point out comments there wear my signature where I ''bitch'' as you so graciously call it or maybe think longer before you engange in such immature flambiting.

This is sure geting us somewhere .. Now think deeply has this is childish (using your words). BTW, the airstrikes on the clinics is smart because this will make everybody go to the main hostipal and the insurgents would not like to go there or go ask the coalition for medical help. Also, civilians have went up the coalition/iraqi forces to get medical help and they helped them..

Come on! You have a complained about my posts before.

Edit: wish I can bold this .

[Acecombat 0]

I have an even smarter plan you oxymoron's , lets just drop a nuke or what was it called the new neutron bomb or something which only kills living beings? Thats guarenteed to flush kill every terrorist (not to mention EVERYONE else too).

Howzzat

[python3 0]

BTW, the airstrikes on the clinics is smart because this will make everybody go to the main hostipal and the insurgents would not like to go there or go ask the coalition for medical help. Also, civilians have went up the coalition/iraqi forces to get medical help and they helped them..

Come on! You have a complained about my posts before.

Edit: wish I can bold this .

smart, far from it. How the hell are people supposed to get over to the hospital across the river when there are bombs and artillery going off all around? please enlighten me. Smart, whats so smart about killing doctors and patients in the clinics?

the purpose of the clinic is to provide care for those who need it, but cannot make it to the main hospital.

its a war crime

[Pathy 0]

BTW, the airstrikes on the clinics is smart because this will make everybody go to the main hostipal and the insurgents would not like to go there or go ask the coalition for medical help. Also, civilians have went up the coalition/iraqi forces to get medical help and they helped them..

Come on! You have a complained about my posts before.

Edit: wish I can bold this .

smart, far from it. How the hell are people supposed to get over to the hospital across the river when there are bombs and artillery going off all around? please enlighten me. Smart, whats so smart about killing doctors and patients in the clinics?

the purpose of the clinic is to provide care for those who need it, but cannot make it to the main hospital.

its a war crime

I agree with python, theres nothing smart about it.

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]BTW, the airstrikes on the clinics is smart because this will make everybody go to the main hostipal and the insurgents would not like to go there or go ask the coalition for medical help

So let's weigh things carefully.With all due seriosity you are either a brainwashed soul plagued by stupidity or a sadistic sociopat,judging by your posts I am more inclined to pick the first option.

Just so everyone understands your reasoning well.

Billybob condones an act so atrocious it's one of the points the Geneva Convection stands most firm and oposes,for a greater purpose.

Billybob condones the slaying of dozens of wounded civillians very likely women and children reciving aid and at a clinic and doctors trying to help them,for a greater purpose.

Billybob considers that the only way Iraqis could recive aid should be at the hospital at the oustkirts of the city and those who can not reach it out of various reasons such as terminal wounds that require immidiate care or wounds that won't allow them to walk all the way to the hospital(a carfew being imposed and not even ambulances are allowed to move in the city) well they are just on tough luck,all for a greater purpose.

The greater purpose which I was refering too and Billybob has pointed out is that we have the assurance that insurgents will bleed to death with no help at hand for their petty Zarqawi associated souls regardless of how many civillan deaths and hospitals turned to rubble is needed to achieve that effect..

[python3 0]

heh, how ironic.

the terrorists purposely target civilians, but cannot keep up with the rate that the americans are killing them. makes you wonder who' who in this war.

how tragic we have people (well, at least a person) on the forums condoening the bombing of clinics and other civilian institutions meant to help those wounded. that is an act of terror if u ask me. Damn sad its not getting the attention it should on the news. I love how the world largely sits by while wholesale slaughter of iraqis occurs. I was kinda hoping for sanctions against the US, but im prob just dreaming.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]

The greater purpose which I was refering too and Billybob has pointed out is that we have the assurance that insurgents will bleed to death with no help at hand for their petty Zarqawi associated souls regardless of how many civillan deaths and hospitals turned to rubble is needed to achieve that effect..

Civilians have given their injured to the coalition (not to the hospital) and the coalition gave them the same care has if they were one of their own. I could post pictures of them working on a fallujah civilian but not in a ban mood. I wonder how they were able to give their injuried to the coalition.

Quote[/b] ]I have an even smarter plan you oxymoron's , lets just drop a nuke or what was it called the new neutron bomb or something which only kills living beings? Thats guarenteed to flush kill every terrorist (not to mention EVERYONE else too).

Howzzat

Hehe, name calling... loving it!

[Pathy 0]

Says the person who resorts to calling people a bitch.

Did you not read the previous posts? Not all civilians CAN give thier injured to the coalition, and whatever, it still doesnt justify bombing a clinic, killing doctors, nurses, patients ect.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]how tragic we have people (well, at least a person) on the forums condoening the bombing of clinics and other civilian institutions meant to help those wounded.

You love putting words in mouth? I call it smart has the people on this forum who think the insurgency is "ok". I do not agree with it but eh, the insurgents use them (dealing with the clinics). BTW, US Central Command is denying the second clinic. Why did not anybody tell me it was from Al-Jazeera? Also, the helo down is denied.

Quote[/b] ]Says the person who resorts to calling people a bitch

I did not call him a bitch but he was bitching (bitch was used in this context) about post comments being childish... big difference.

[Pathy 0]

Yeh well what US central command usually denies is usually also true

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]Civilians have given their injured to the coalition (not to the hospital) and the coalition gave them the same care has if they were one of their own.

''So let's weigh things carefully.With all due seriosity you are either a brainwashed soul plagued by stupidity or a sadistic sociopat,judging by your posts I am more inclined to pick the first option.

Just so everyone understands your reasoning well.

Billybob condones an act so atrocious it's one of the points the Geneva Convection stands most firm and oposes,for a greater purpose.

Billybob condones the slaying of dozens of wounded civillians very likely women and children reciving aid and at a clinic and doctors trying to help them,for a greater purpose.

Billybob considers that the only way Iraqis could recive aid should be at the hospital at the oustkirts of the city and those who can not reach it out of various reasons such as terminal wounds that require immidiate care or wounds that won't allow them to walk all the way to the hospital(a carfew being imposed and not even ambulances are allowed to move in the city) well they are just on tough luck,all for a greater purpose.

The greater purpose which I was refering too and Billybob has pointed out is that we have the assurance that insurgents will bleed to death with no help at hand for their petty Zarqawi associated souls regardless of how many civillan deaths and hospitals turned to rubble is needed to achieve that effect..

''

You should really try stoping selective reading,until then I will have to quote myself until you do so otherwise any further discussion with is futile.

Quote[/b] ]Why did not anybody tell me it was from Al-Jazeera? Also, the helo down is denied.

Because it wasn't from Al-Jazeera.CentCom is lying through it's theets,turn a page backwards and you will see it was Reuters who reported it first.

The helo down was yet again reported by a Reuters journalist located in the city and not by Al-Jazeera as CentCom affirms.Tsk,tsk CentCom cought lying red handed.

What's next,Fallujah citizens aren't actually kept hostages by foreign thugs crying desperatly for US marines intervention as brandashed on Centcom site?

[turms 0]

The helo was from a Reuters embedded cameraman.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]

Because it wasn't from Al-Jazeera.CentCom is lying through it's theets,turn a page backwards and you will see it was Reuters who reported it first.

Notice the also. Furthermore, CentCom did not deny that a helo. was damaged but it may it back with a injury crew (AP story). Also, Reuters (with Fadel al-Badrani reporting with somebody else) in its updated report did not say a thing about about a down helo.

Quote[/b] ]

You should really try stoping selective reading,until then I will have to quote myself until you do so otherwise any further discussion with is futile.

Quote[/b] ]I do not agree with it but eh, the insurgents use them (dealing with the clinics).

[Acecombat 0]

And since when did 'oxymoron' become name calling?

Enlighten us please ...

Oxymoron is a term used to describe dubious people like you who go to war to make peace

[bn880 5]

the terrorists purposely target civilians, but cannot keep up with the rate that the americans are killing them. makes you wonder who' who in this war.

Very interesting satire, did you think of this yourself, or is this something that many people are saying?

[python3 0]

the terrorists purposely target civilians, but cannot keep up with the rate that the americans are killing them. makes you wonder who' who in this war.

Very interesting satire, did you think of this yourself, or is this something that many people are saying?  

hehe, it just occured to me when i was reading over the posts about 100,000 civilians killed in this war and 2x the number of civilians killed by the US than terrorists.

Sad but true. How ironic can things get?