The Iraq thread 4

[billybob2002 0]

EDIT!!!

[shadow 6]

Unless all of you can't debate in a mature manner this topic is getting locked and staying locked.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Unless all of you can't debate in a mature manner this topic is getting locked and staying locked.

Billybob2002 actually takes the bait....

WOOT! A Saudi joins the international coalition of Billybob2002 haters.. Who is next?

Anyway,

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm....weapons

Quote[/b] ]

U.S. Commander Theorizes on Iraq Weapons

59 minutes ago Middle East - AP

By JOHN J. LUMPKIN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - As John Kerry (news - web sites) hammers the Bush administration over the disappearance of nearly 400 tons of explosives in Iraq (news - web sites), Pentagon (news - web sites) experts are suggesting the ordnance could have been moved before the United States invaded in March 2003.

An infantry commander said Wednesday it is "very highly improbable" that someone could have trucked out so much material once U.S. forces arrived in the area.

Col. David Perkins commanded the 2nd Brigade of the 3rd Infantry Division, the division that led the charge into Baghdad. Those troops first captured the Iraqi weapons depot from which 377 tons of explosives disappeared.

Two major roads that pass near the Al-Qaqaa installation were filled with U.S. military traffic in the weeks after April 3, 2003, when U.S. troops first reached the area, the colonel said.

Perkins and others in the military acknowledged that some looting at the site had taken place. But he said a large-scale operation to remove the explosives using trucks almost certainly would have been detected.

Perkins, now a staff officer at the Pentagon, was made available to reporters by Defense Department spokesmen.

The Kerry campaign has pointed to the missing explosives as evidence of the Bush administration's poor handling of the war. Bush officials have responded that more than a thousand times that amount of explosives and munitions in Iraq have been recovered or destroyed.

Mike McCurry, an adviser to Kerry, said, "From some of the Pentagon reporting today, there is a window that's available there where either just prior to or just after the invasion, there could have been an opportunity for either Saddam to move the weapons or for something happening after that facility had been abandoned.

"And that is up to the administration to best determine how to answer that question when that happened. But they don't have an answer, and that's what we're asking for," McCurry said.

Larry Di Rita, the Pentagon's top spokesman, said what ultimately happened to the explosives is unknown. The department is investigating. But Perkins' description seemed to point toward the possibility that the explosives were removed before the U.S.-led invasion to oust Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein (news - web sites), rather than during the chaos afterward.

THe colonel did not directly offer that conclusion.

And Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) said it was unfortunate the missing explosives had become "such a hot political issue in the presence of these unclear facts."

In fact, he said, "there is some suggestion there might not have been that much explosives missing in the first place."

Powell, in an interview Thursday on former Education Secretary Bill Bennett's "Morning in America" radio program, said "the facts are really kind of muddled now and we are just going to have to try to do the best we can in the very near future to get the ground truth out."

Meanwhile, The Washington Times reported Thursday that a Pentagon official said in an interview that he thinks Russian special forces troops moved many of Saddam's weapons and related goods out of Iraq and into Syria in the weeks before the March 2003 military operation.

Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Vyacheslav Sedov dismissed the allegations as "absurd" and "ridiculous."

"I can state officially that the Russian Defense Ministry and its structures couldn't have been involved in the disappearance of the explosives, because all Russian military experts left Iraq when the international sanctions were introduced during the 1991 Gulf War (news - web sites)," he told The Associated Press.

John A. Shaw, the U.S. deputy undersecretary of defense for international technology security, told The Times in an interview: "The Russians brought in, just before the war got started, a whole series of military units. Their main job was to shred all evidence of any of the contractual arrangements they had with the Iraqis. The others were transportation units."

Shaw, who was in charge of cataloging the tons of conventional arms provided to Iraq by foreign suppliers, said he recently obtained reliable information on the arms-dispersal program from two European intelligence services. He did not specifically accuse the Russians of having a role in the 377 missing tons, only saying that was still being studied.

Di Rita would neither endorse nor dispute Shaw's claims.

"I've not seen any information on this," he said Thursday.

U.S. defense officials were also studying reconnaissance images taken of vehicles at Al-Qaqaa before and during the war but have come up with nothing conclusive as to when the explosives were removed, they said.

Two weeks ago, Iraqi officials told the United Nations (news - web sites)' International Atomic Energy Agency that the explosives vanished as a result of "theft and looting ... due to lack of security."

The explosives were known to be housed in storage bunkers at Al-Qaqaa. U.N. nuclear inspectors placed fresh seals over the bunker doors in January 2003. The inspectors visited Al-Qaqaa for the last time that March 15 and reported that the seals were not broken; therefore, the weapons were still there at the time. The team then pulled out of the country before the invasion, which started March 20.

According to Perkins, his 2nd Brigade arrived in the area near Al-Qaqaa on April 3, 2003, as part of the first large coalition combat force to come so close to Baghdad. His troops were attacked by Iraqi forces based inside the installation, he said.

Perkins sent the 3rd Battalion of the 15th Infantry to secure the base and the surrounding area.

As the rest of Perkins' brigade moved on, the 3rd Battalion spent two days in the area looking for other Iraqi forces, Perkins said. The Americans did not specifically search for any high explosives, although they were aware that Al-Qaqaa was an important site for what was believed to be Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs.Troops found other weapons, including artillery shells, on the base, he said.

I wonder where did it go? The million dollar question..

[theavonlady 2]

I wonder where did it go? The million dollar question..

Old stuff but peek-a-boo?

[Blake 0]

Quote[/b] ]The only reason you can say that the country is really fecked up now because the coalition is not acting like Saddam. That is the truth and you cannot deny it.

Talking about living in denial of truth and reality huh  

If you happen to remember, the entire organization of keeping public order broke down when the invasion was declared 'complete'. And I don't mean the Saddamist toruture and execution-based political order, I mean everyday basic policing and law enforcement. There was not enought troops. There was no plan. Respect for property and law broke down. There was nothing to replace the old authority. Looting and lawnlessness was just considered 'Iraqis ventilating their frustration after years of suppression'. The effects of these mistakes are still felt today.

Order restored when coaltion starts to act like Saddam? In your dreams. Couldn't think of any better way to escalate the crisis.

I supported the war, I've said it many times but I do have the right criticize the aftermath and people who label others Saddam-lovers and live in denial of reality.

[kerosene 0]

I dont think people on the right think we like Saddam Hussein, its just a cheap shot they like taking, again and agian again.

It dosent matter that the 9/11 report says there was no real or meaningful link to al-queda, they said their was some kind of tenous, vauge link and thats good enough.

I love this response to these missing explosives: "shit happens, dont worry about it" It makes you wonder, if there were any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, whos to say those sites didnt get cleaned out?

The Republicans have more or less conceded (not publicly) that there werent enough troops on the ground, they then compunded that by disbanding the Iraqi army, even if you were pro war, how can you not see that this occupation has been planned poorly, its not like there was a shortage of people saying both ideas were shit to begin with.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Talking about living in denial of truth and reality huh  

Quote[/b] ]I admit I'm probably wrong but you are probably wrong too.

The coalition had enough manpower to "crackdown" but people would of been complaining...

[Blake 0]

Quote[/b] ]

I admit I'm probably wrong but you are probably wrong too.

Yeah but vote Bush he was right all along. And you can avoid thinking and risking being blamed for being wrong.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Yeah but vote Bush he was right all along.

I did not said he was right all the time..

[Blake 0]

Quote[/b] ]The coalition had enough manpower to "crackdown" but people would of been complaining...

Crackdown? The need was for basic guarding and policing duties, not for SWAT teams crashing into people's homes.

There simply was not enough troops.

Go figure. 1991 500,000 was needed to eject Iraqis from tiny Kuwait now you had 125,000 taking over a country 20 times larger. You do the math.

[quicksand 0]

50 Iraqi guardsman killed in Iraq followed by 11 more

Quote[/b] ]BAGHDAD, Iraq - A grisly video released Thursday showed militants killing 11 Iraqi troops held hostage for days, beheading one, then shooting the others execution-style. Another group released a video of a kidnapped Polish woman, demanding Warsaw pull its troops from Iraq (news - web sites).

The latest kidnapping dramas came as the deadline wound down for a Japanese hostage who was shown in a video aired Tuesday. His captors — said to be the al-Qaida-linked militant group of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi — threatened to behead him in 48 hours unless Japan withdraws its troops — a demand rejected by Tokyo.

CARE International announced Thursday it has closed its operations in Iraq, in an appeal for the release of its kidnapped director there. Margaret Hassan, 59, a citizen of Britain, Ireland and Iraq, was abducted Oct. 19.

In new violence Thursday, a car bomb exploded Thursday in southern Baghdad, killing a U.S. soldier and at least one Iraqi civilian and wounding two other American soldiers, the U.S. military said. Another U.S. soldier was killed when insurgents attacked his patrol south of Balad, about 40 miles north of Baghdad, the military said.

At least 1,110 members of the U.S. military have died since the beginning of the Iraq war in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count.

The killings of the 11 Iraqi National Guardsmen were claimed by a group called the Ansar al-Sunnah Army.

In the video posted on the group's Web site, each man is seen reading out his name and his unit. One man was then forced to the floor, and a militant pulled his head by the hair and cut off his head. A gunman then shot the others one by one as they knelt on the ground, their arms bound. Some of the men cringed as they heard the shots. The gunman then emptied a full clip into the bodies.

Insurgents have regularly targeted Iraqi security forces, blaming them for working with Americans. On Saturday, insurgents ambushed and killed 50 unarmed Iraqi soldiers as they headed home from a U.S. training camp northeast of Baghdad.

A voiceover on Thursday's video — identified as that of the "Emir al-Jamaa," or head of the group — addressed all members of Iraq's security forces. "Repent to God. ... Abandon your weapons and go home and beware of supporting the apostate Crusaders or their followers, the Iraqi government, or else you will only find death," it said.

A statement on the Web site said: "We will not forget about the blood of our elderly, women and children that are shed daily in Fallujah, Samarra, Ramadi and elsewhere on your hands and the hands of those you work with."

It said the 11 slain men were "responsible for guarding the Crusader American troops in the Radwaniya area" in Baghdad.

The Ansar al-Sunnah Army announced Tuesday that it had captured the men on the highway between Baghdad and Hillah, showing their photos on its Web site. It did not say when they were siezed. The movement has claimed responsibility for a number of attacks and hostage takings, including the slaying of 12 Nepalese hostages.

The Pole was the latest foreign woman to be abducted in Iraq. Hassan, the head of CARE International in Iraq, was snatched from her car last week and in a video aired Wednesday night was seen pleading for the withdrawal of British troops and the release of Iraq women prisoners.

The video Thursday of the Polish hostage, aired on Al-Jazeera television, showed a middle-aged woman with gray hair and dressed in a polka-dotted blouse sitting in front of two masked gunmen, one of whom was pointing a pistol at her head.

The woman was identified as Teresa Borcz-Kalifa, aged about 60, by one of her former superiors at the Polish Embassy in Baghdad, where she worked in the 1990s. The superior, Leszek Adamiec, told Poland's private Radio Zet that Borcz-Kalifa worked in the consular section until 1994.

Interior Ministry spokesman Col. Adnan Abdul-Rahman said the woman, a longtime resident with Iraqi citizenship, was believed to have been abducted Wednesday night from her home in Baghdad. In Warsaw, Foreign Minister Wlodzimierz Cimoszewicz said she was a Polish citizen who is married to an Iraqi.

Her abduction was claimed by a group called the Abu Bakr al-Siddiq Fundamentalist Brigades.

Her voice was not audible on the tape, but Al-Jazeera said she urged Polish troops to leave the country and for U.S. and Iraqi authorities to release all female detainees from the Abu Ghraib prison. Ahmed al-Sheikh, Al-Jazeera's editor-in-chief, said the kidnappers did not mention a specific death threat or give a deadline.

Armed Group Claims to Have Iraq Explosives

Quote[/b] ]BAGHDAD, Iraq - An armed group claimed in a video Thursday to have obtained a large amount of explosives missing from a munitions depot facility in Iraq (news - web sites) and threatened to use them against foreign troops.

A group calling itself Al-Islam's Army Brigades, Al-Karar Brigade, said it had coordinated with officers and soldiers of "the American intelligence" to obtain a "huge amount of the explosives that were in the al-Qaqaa facility."

The claim couldn't be independently verified. The speaker was surrounded by masked, armed men standing in front of a black banner with the group's name on it in the tape obtained by Associated Press Television News.

"We promise God and the Iraqi people that we will use it against the occupation forces and those who cooperate with them in the event of these forces threatening any Iraqi city," the man added.

Nearly 400 tons of conventional explosives have disappeared from the al-Qaqaa facility south of Baghdad, according to the International Atomic Energy Agency.

The U.N. agency's chief Mohamed ElBaradei, reported the disappearance to the U.N. Security C

ouncil on Monday, two weeks after Iraqi officials told the nuclear agency that 377 tons of explosives had vanished as a result of "theft and looting ... due to lack of security."

The disappearance of the explosives has become a huge campaign issue in the U.S. presidential election.

Ramadi rapidly falling in Iraqi rebel hands

Quote[/b] ]BAGHDAD, Iraq - An armed group claimed in a video Thursday to have obtained a large amount of explosives missing from a munitions depot facility in Iraq (news - web sites) and threatened to use them against foreign troops.

A group calling itself Al-Islam's Army Brigades, Al-Karar Brigade, said it had coordinated with officers and soldiers of "the American intelligence" to obtain a "huge amount of the explosives that were in the al-Qaqaa facility."

The claim couldn't be independently verified. The speaker was surrounded by masked, armed men standing in front of a black banner with the group's name on it in the tape obtained by Associated Press Television News.

"We promise God and the Iraqi people that we will use it against the occupation forces and those who cooperate with them in the event of these forces threatening any Iraqi city," the man added.

Nearly 400 tons of conventional explosives have disappeared from the al-Qaqaa facility south of Baghdad, according to the International Atomic Energy Agency.

The U.N. agency's chief Mohamed ElBaradei, reported the disappearance to the U.N. Security Council on Monday, two weeks after Iraqi officials told the nuclear agency that 377 tons of explosives had vanished as a result of "theft and looting ... due to lack of security."

The disappearance of the explosives has become a huge campaign issue in the U.S. presidential election.

Maybe some months ago it still worked for Bush to quote Allawis claims that 15 of 16 Iraqi provinces are pacified,that only ''parts of Fallujah'' are in rebel control,that the insurgents are a bunch of desperate loose enders with no agenda,now we are able to safely call them crap quoting both US military reports and daily Reuters,AFP etc. articles outlining situation on the ground.

A guerilla organisation that is able to kill 61 Iraqi national guardsman in 3 days,has 400 tones of explosives in their hands,is in firm control of a city of 300,000 inhabatants and stedeadly taking control of the capital of Al-Anbar province.More over has spectacular intelligence,is deeply infiltrated in the US appointed organisations,helds a daily ratio of 2 US soldiers kills is not a loose entity but an organisation that astonishes for it's survival against all odds that can only be explained by a steady amount of suport from the Iraqi population and their creative tacticts which cover some of the handicap military equipment wise.Indeed it has survived hundreads of airstrikes,sieges,raids and the ultimate act of mockery against George W Bush historic flight on a carrier to brandash Mission Accomplished which instead of weaking the rebels has only made them more powerful and numerous.

I wouldn't like to bend to limits of common sense but I could really call it a hydra if I were to compare it with a mythological entity.Sure you could bring any building you like to rubble and kill a few insurgents but in the same time a kebeb owner in Fallujah consequently lead his 3 sons to rise up arms against the occupation seaking revange.

It shames me to acnkowledge it's merits but it would be ignorance not to that would lead to a skewed judgement seen so often by members of one baricade who in turn are not to blame as they are only mimicking their leaders.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Go figure. 1991 500,000 was needed to eject Iraqis from tiny Kuwait now you had 125,000 taking over a country 20 times larger. You do the math.

Because the Iraqi military back then was supposed to be good.

[Blake 0]

Billybob, we are not talking about just the fighting but occupation and pacifying of country larger than california with over 20 million people.

Now, recompute, print and analyze.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Billybob, we are not talking about just the fighting but occupation and pacifying of country larger than california with over 20 million people.

Now, recompute, print and analyze.

hmm...

Quote[/b] ]Go figure. 1991 500,000 was needed to eject Iraqis from tiny Kuwait now you had 125,000 taking over a country 20 times larger. You do the math.

Stop spinning or trying to change it.

[Blake 0]

I'm done with you BillyBob. You simply fail to discuss any issues. Consider yourself ingnored.

[Acecombat 0]

I'm done with you BillyBob. You simply fail to discuss any issues. Consider yourself ingnored.

What took you so long Blake

Quote[/b] ]WOOT! A Saudi joins the international coalition of Billybob2002 haters.. Who is next?

No i only pity you. Just like i pity plenty of other people here in this region.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]I'm done with you BillyBob. You simply fail to discuss any issues. Consider yourself ingnored.

OMG, you missed it.

Quote[/b] ]

The coalition had enough manpower to "crackdown" but people would of been complaining...

Quote[/b] ]No i only pity you. Just like i pity plenty of other people here in this region.

I pity you, also

Edit: FECK FECK

[billybob2002 0]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm....allujah

Quote[/b] ]

U.S. Bombs Suspected Rebel Site in Iraq

Thu Oct 28, 5:21 AM ET Middle East - AP

FALLUJAH, Iraq - U.S. aircraft bombed a suspected rebel safehouse Thursday in the insurgent stronghold of Fallujah, killing two people, the U.S. military and witnesses said.

The overnight strike in the northern part of the city targeted a "meeting site" used by suspected allies of Jordanian terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the U.S. military said in a statement. Al-Zarqawi and his terror group, Al-Qaida in Iraq (news - web sites), are believed to be operating from Fallujah.

Fallujah Hospital officials confirmed two people had died and a third was wounded.

Residents said the two were brothers and a third sibling was wounded.

The victim's family denied the men were insurgents and relatives buried the dead men hours after the strike.

"My brothers were no fighters ... I was preparing to marry them off after the Fallujah crisis ends, now I am burying them with my own hands instead," said family member Mahmoud Nasser.

The U.S. military is stepping up attacks in Fallujah, 40 miles west of Baghdad, in an effort to boost nationwide security ahead of Iraq's planned January elections.

[billybob2002 0]

Hmm...All quiet.... To people on this forum, you know who are, I have to admit something.... If you care to look for it, I have said this war was done cheap. It was a simple post and people must of not seen it or what (Iraq thread three or something). Furthermore, this newer post:

Quote[/b] ]I did not said he was right all the time..

should of made people think. I do support the Iraqi war but the aftermath is not perfect. It is a long road but, in the end, the US and the Iraqis people are going to victorious. This is not a retreat or some shit but something I have been hinting for a long time.... Anyway, WOOT a fin has joined the coalition!!!

[Akira 0]

This will go in both Iraq and here:

The FBI has opened a criminal investigation into how the contracts to Haliburton were awarded. A whistle-blower has alleged favortism and blatant breaking of contract award rules.

[Pukko 0]

Hmm...All quiet.... To people on this forum, you know who are, I have to admit something.... If you care to look for it

Is this what you are thinking about? :

Iraq death toll 'soared post-war' (BBC)

Quote[/b] ]Poor planning, air strikes by coalition forces and a "climate of violence" have led to more than 100,000 extra deaths in Iraq, scientists say.

A study published by the Lancet claims the risk of death by violence for civilians in Iraq is now 58 times higher than before the US-led invasion.

.........

"For the sake of a country in crisis and for a people under daily threat of violence, the evidence we publish today must change heads as well as pierce hearts," he said.

...and yet another Swede joins the coalition  

[quicksand 0]

moved to next page..

[BoweryBaker 0]

AFter i tell ya'll this shit, you'd better do for me what they did for women who riveted planes in ww2.  Once again....it goes back to ancient england.  Castle walls.  Don't send americans home to sleep in iraq.  Set up a stronghold and defend the perimeter.  Bush needs to let them generals know. Putting your defences in one spot will greatly decrease the amount of manpower needed. Security on the streets should be left to the Iraqi police department. Talk to me..

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]. I do support the Iraqi war but the aftermath is not perfect.

Hi Billybob,you continue to baffle me undetered.I will take the bite and make notice of your post.So let't go step by step so that I could understand which part of the war you suport.

So right now we know it was a war against a brutal regime that had no weapons of mass destruction no intent of giving them to a terrorist organisation such as Al-Queda which was the main reason of going to war.

To further make my point the Fedayeen colonel which supposedly had high connections with Al-Queda was later found to be nothing more then a typo confusion according to a CIA report.

There was no imminent danger of a humanitarian crisis except it being triggered by a brutal invasion with sloppy calculation that would be air raiding 18 months after the war should have been finished and loosing control of important cities 2 months before ''ellections''

Once again to make myself better understood-for imminent humanitarian crisis in Iraq we could easily take a trip back in time to 1991 when the Shi'ites uprised were promised suport but instead were left at Saddam forces mercy after TBA decided to break their promise enabling his forces to comit some of the most horrendeus crimes in it's entire reign.

The invasion-the most up to date research of civillian death toll reveals at least 35,000 Iraqi civillians were killed during the invasion with a subsequent equally horrific toll of women and children forever maimed,the quick victory has now turned into a painful rebellion runed by regrouped forces.

A scope at situation today]

Now,almost an year and a half after the war officially ended we have a daily ratio of 2 US soldiers killed per day followed be tens of Iraqis,the country is unstable,less the 5% of the reconstruction projects have even begun,rebels strike at will and are in firm control of Fallujah and taking control of Ramadi the capital of Al-Anbar province.

Al-Queda has for the first time a base in Iraq striking viciously at Iraqis who were unfamiliar with daily suicide bombings before the war and other.

Tons of explosives have been stolen from the Al-Quaqa base as result of US military neglect seen in hundreads of other casis where museums and other facilities were robbed naked with only the oil ministry being kept guard go figure.

US forces according to the Iraqi health ministry are responsable for more Iraqi civillian deaths then the insurgents who fight with unprecise,outdated weapons.

This on it's own should get you thinking who really are the anti-Iraqi forces?

---

And here is an important lesson Billybob that surprisingly escaped your grasp by now.

War can't be sliced in parts that you like like the capture Saddam or the deaths of Uday and his brother,overruning his crippled army and conveniently turn a blind eye on the fact that the reasons for going to war were flawed,the tens of thousands of Iraqis killed in the war,followed by thousands more killed after May1 and ignore the Iraqi forces have by now regrouped,are coordinated more numerous and determined then ever and in strategic control of important cities.

One last thing,I took the time to answer your post schematicly,you have already wasted the patiance of other forum members,so if you plan another one of your one lined responses ''I NEVER SAID THAT'' '' accompanied by a smile overkill,don't bother.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Once again to make myself better understood-for imminent humanitarian crisis in Iraq we could easily take a trip back in time to 1991 when the Shi'ites uprised were promised suport but instead were left at Saddam forces mercy after TBA decided to break their promise enabling his forces to comit some of the most horrendeus crimes in it's entire reign.

Quote[/b] ]less the 5% of the reconstruction projects have even begun

You say that there is imminent humanitarian crisis in Iraq and it seems you are complaining about the reconstruction projects. Reconstruction projects and the humanitarian go hand and hand. Majority of Iraqi people have failed to grasp that this so called "resistance" is the one that is causing this imminenet humanitarian crisis. Billions (that is with a B) is waiting to be used but the insurgency is preventing this. The coalition maybe working slowly on reconstruction but it is progress. Some Iraqis understand this and helping the coalition to deal with this problem but majority are not. You may come back and say the insurgency is powerful well, in some american communities, the community not the police retake their streets from the drug dealers and etc. Or, there is partnership (i.e. community policing) and the coalition is waiting to work with the rest of the Iraqi people.

Quote[/b] ]Tons of explosives have been stolen from the Al-Quaqa base as result of US military neglect seen in hundreads of other casis where museums and other facilities were robbed naked with only the oil ministry being kept guard go figure.

I could go on rant on why the hell the inspectors allowed Saddam to keep those high-grade explosives. Come on it is Saddam! Anyway, the coalition have destroyed +100,000 ton of explosives and weapons.

Quote[/b] ]

War can't be sliced in parts that you like like the capture Saddam or the deaths of Uday and his brother,overruning his crippled army and conveniently turn a blind eye on the fact that the reasons for going to war were flawed,the tens of thousands of Iraqis killed in the war,followed by thousands more killed after May1 and ignore the Iraqi forces have by now regrouped,are coordinated more numerous and determined then ever and in strategic control of important cities.

I call Saddam capture and the death of his sons bright moments in post-Iraq. There were other things Bush could of used. I have already posted my feelings about civilian death.

Quote[/b] ]One last thing,I took the time to answer your post schematicly,you have already wasted the patiance of other forum members,so if you plan another one of your one lined responses ''I NEVER SAID THAT'' '' accompanied by a smile overkill,don't bother.