The Iraq thread 4

[theavonlady 2]

They wait for the "one man one vote" promise G.W Bush has given them. And they know that he has betrayed them about exactly this.

IMO, they're wrong. The betrayers are those Iraqi, Arab and Muslim terrorists who have brought instability, terror and misery to Iraq's people and economy.

The sooner they're dealt with, the sooner the elections, under fair conditions.

Quote[/b] ]There will never be a "one man one vote" democracy in Iraq. Neither do people support an Islamic state with Sharia. They want to run the country their way and they want the oil contracts nullyfied as they want to sell their oil on their own and not some US companies.

I guess they have the right to and I´m sure if the election goes as planned they will throw the coalition troops out of the country.

Imsha'allah!

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]The betrayers are those Iraqi, Arab and Muslim terrorists who have brought instability, terror and misery to Iraq's people and economy.

How can they be betrayers if that`s exactly what the Iraqi people want?A majority of Iraqis suport attacks on US soldiers,if the Iraqi rebels didn`t have the suport they have from the population,US deathtoll would have never reached 1,000 with a majority killed after "mission was accomplished".

Have it ever crossed your mind that someone else could be guilty for the suport the resistance has,for the instability and misery instead of the Iraqis who never asked for this war?

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]The betrayers are those Iraqi, Arab and Muslim terrorists who have brought instability, terror and misery to Iraq's people and economy.

How can they be betrayers if that`s exactly what the Iraqi people want?A majority of Iraqis suport attacks on US soldiers,if the Iraqi rebels didn`t have the suport they have from the population,US deathtoll would have never reached 1,000 with a majority killed after "mission was accomplished".

Have it ever crossed your mind that someone else could be guilty for the suport the resistance has,for the instability and misery instead of the Iraqis who never asked for this war?

The Iraqis support killing Iraqi police and soldiers?

They support sabotaging their oil fields?

They support the kidnapping and murders of volunteers and companies trying to rebuild Iraq?

They support the Sha'aria-promising Al Sadr's, who have messed up the lives of tens of thousands of Iraqis ever since the US and the Iraqi government have sought to let him move on to his next location of attack?

Really? You speak for Joe Iraqi, do you think so now? I don't.

Tell me, were more innocent Iraqis or Coalition troops killed by the terrorists in Iraq since Saddam's fall? What? Nobody bothered with such statistics?

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]The betrayers are those Iraqi, Arab and Muslim terrorists who have brought instability, terror and misery to Iraq's people and economy.

Well than you have to say that the invasion itself only enabled them to do those attacks. There were none prior the invasion and the catastrophic security situation the coaltion has caused and is responsible for was the soil where such things grew.

The coalition failed in establishing security big time, and they put every Iraqi into the risk of getting killed either by them or the terrorists.

[theavonlady 2]

Well than you have to say that the invasion itself only enabled them to do those attacks. There were none prior the invasion and the catastrophic security situation the coaltion has caused and is responsible for was the soil where such things grew.

The coalition failed in establishing security big time, and they put every Iraqi into the risk of getting killed either by them or the terrorists.

I have no arguments with anything you said.

Of course you forget to mention how rosey and cheerful the Iraqis live under Saddam's regime for decades and how those were cherished times.

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]They support the Sha'aria-promising Al Sadr's, who have messed up the lives of tens of thousands of Iraqis ever since the US and the Iraqi government have sought to let him move on to his next location of attack?

Indeed they do AvonLAdy,indeed they do

Sistani most popular Iraqi leader, US pollsters find

Quote[/b] ]Ayatollah Ali-al Sistani, who halted the three weeks of fighting in Najaf, is the most popular public figure in Iraq, says a poll which shows a deep undercurrent of respect for religious parties ahead of campaigning for elections planned for January.

Even before the three-week battle for control of Najaf, Iraq's most venerated Shia cleric came just ahead of leading figures in the interim Iraqi government and well ahead of Muqtada al-Sadr, the man he ordered to lay down his arms last Thursday night.

But Sadr, a leading figure in agitation for a US pullout from Iraq, was high the league table of public figures, with 57.19 percent of Iraqis viewing him positively before his gunmen fought coalition and Iraqi forces in the holy city.

The confidential poll, for the International Republican Institute, an offshoot of the US Republican Party and chaired by Senator John McCain, is one of the most comprehensive surveys of Iraqi public opinion since the fall of Saddam Hussein 16 months ago. It shows that most Iraqis see the restoration of a full electricity supply as their primary concern in reconstruction of the country; The biggest group regard crime as the issue most affecting them, and the ability to maintain "order and stability" is the key factor by which they will judge the political parties.

The survey, seen by The Independent after being shown to several Iraqi political parties, was done at the end of July and is a snapshot of opinion a month after the handover of sovereignty. But at its heart are complex and sometimes contradictory attitudes on the role of religion in the future of the country.

The Islamic parties Dawa, SCIRI, and the IIP are viewed most positively by potential electors and 29 per cent - the biggest single group - believes religious figures will make the best candidates in the elections, ahead of university academics (24 per cent), party leaders(16 per cent) and dissidents against the former regime (5.25 per cent) Almost 70 per cent of those polled agree with the proposition that Islam and sharia should be the "sole basis" of all laws, and 70 per cent say they would prefer a "religious" state. Only 23 per cent would opt for a secular one.

But only 4.74 per cent regard a party's religious ties as a key factor by which it will judge whether to vote for a political party. compared with nearly 20 per cent who regard stability and order as the key criterion. Even fewer, 4.52 per cent and 4.28 per cent, respectively say they will judge a party according to whether it is from their own religious or ethnic group.

The latter finding on ethnicity suggests sectarian rivalries between groups, including Sunnis, Shias and Kurds, may be a less potent electoral factor than has sometimes been assumed.

But despite the reflexive emphasis on the importance of sharia, a total of 68 per cent say that they would prefer politicians to be "pragmatic" compared with only 26 per cent who value "principled" politicians most. And 63 per cent would prefer them "modern", to 18 per cent "traditional." Some analysts will see this as strong evidence that Iraqi public opinion does not favour a fundamentalist religious state on the model of Iran.

That is supported by the huge popularity of Ayatollah al-Sistani who even before his authority was enhanced by his role in ending the battle for Najaf had 73.98 per cent approval ratings, and who is widely believed not to favour a strict Islamic state in which clerics play a leading political role.

One of the most striking figures in the survey is that 80 per cent of potential electors have not yet identified with a particular political party, a finding which suggests a continuing and potentially dangerous vacuum, but also that parties which do not yet have a profile among the nascent Iraqi electorate may have everything to play for. Dawa, and to a lesser extent SCIRI, (who both have "very positive" ratings of more than 23 per cent) have a high profile and are seen to have borne the most savage impact of their long-standing opposition to the Saddam regime.

Sadr's rating was notably high - at least before the events of the past month - the biggest single group of voters (44 per cent) are less likely to vote a party because it has a militia compared with a mere 7 per cent who say they would be more likely to vote for such a party.

Another striking finding is that 84 per cent value highest in politicians the characteristic of "mature and experienced", compared with only 11 per cent who want them "dynamic and youthful". Seventy per cent would rather see their politicians as "deliberative" than "decisive", which got 26 per cent.

The personal ratings show that Ghazi Al Yawer, the country's President, is strongly or "somewhat" approved by 72 per cent of electors, which may suggest Iraqis are not yet used to the idea that the Presidency is a much more honorific post than others. Iyad Allawi, the Prime Minister, is at 72 per cent while the figures also show a striking popularity for Ibrahim Jaffari, the moderate Islamist vice president who publicly criticised the government's handling of the Najaf crisis.

Abdel Aziz al Hakim, the leader of SCIRI and brother of the Shia leader Mohammed al-Bakr Hakim, murdered a year ago, is at 61.53 per cent, and Adnan Pachachi, whose Iraqi Independent Democrats has yet to acquire a high profile, has personal approval ratings of 46.5 per cent.

Quote[/b] ]The Iraqis support killing Iraqi police and soldiers?

They support sabotaging their oil fields?

They support the kidnapping and murders of volunteers and companies trying to rebuild Iraq?

I`ve never said any of those things,I did say they suport killing US soldiers which is completly true,unless you want to argue with polls by quoting some more of your bloggers.

And I think they suport those actions abut as much they do the daily air raids on Fallujah and other various actions performed by the US military.

Quote[/b] ]Really? You speak for Joe Iraqi, do you think so now? I don't.

Who DO you speak for AvonLady,the six Iraqi women inverviwed by BBC arabic,the bloggers from Iraqithemodel?

You are right I do not speak for this people,I am more intrested in what the majority of Iraqis think and want rather then handpicking unic cases to fit my own thoughts as you do.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Of course you forget to mention how rosey and cheerful the Iraqis live under Saddam's regime for decades and how those were cherished times.

Judged by infrastructure, yes. They were better of with Saddam looking at their current living conditions that do not really seem to evolve or get better.

Saddam was a dictator. Bush says he´s not.

But the Iraqis were told a lot by Bush, he´s a betrayer in their eyes. And they obviously do have a point. So is he the messiah for Iraq or is he just feeding his political and economical interests ? Does he torture in Iraq ? Does he hide captives in Iraq ? Has he destroyed infrastructure ? Has he exploited natural ressources in Iraq ? Does he listen to the Iraqi people ? Has he killed more than 12.000 Iraqis ?

Wearing a suit doesn´t make you the messiah.

[billybob2002 0]

http://www.nbc5i.com/news/3719681/detail.html

Quote[/b] ]

Family Of Killed Soldier: Vigil Crowd Threatening

POSTED: 5:48 pm CDT September 9, 2004

UPDATED: 11:02 am CDT September 10, 2004

DALLAS -- A candlelight vigil took place Wednesday night to remember U.S. war dead in Iraq during the week of the 1,000th casualty. One North Texas family whose relative -- Chad Drake -- was killed outside Baghdad on Monday, was among the mourners at Dallas City Hall Plaza.

A family friend said the vigil turned abrasive toward the family members. The friend sent an e-mail message to NBC 5 News that described the alleged treatment some vigil attendees directed at the family.

The family friend's message alleges Drake's mother was "harassed and yelled at, booed and hissed, told her son died for nothing."

Drake's mother reportedly left the event in tears.

The family attended the vigil because they thought it was meant to honor U.S. casualties. The event was organized by the Dallas Peace Center, which opposes the war.

The Drake family says they were upset about the antiwar tenor of the assembled crowd. The director of the Dallas Peace Center said the event was not intended to be an antiwar rally, but said e-mail notifications of the vigil were sent to a broad audience. Because the venue is a public place, he said, a variety of people with various views on the war in Iraq attended.

He also said the event was planned to include political overtones, but the Drake family should have been informed.

The center, however, did issue an apology to the Drake family.

"I want to be clear in issuing an apology to the mother of the recent victim of that war," Lon Burnam, of the Dallas Peace Center, said. "I can certainly understand why she would not feel comfortable in that particular venue with that particular group of people."

Peace Center officials said they believe the Drake family left before the scheduled events started, and the family might not have seen the planned ceremony.

Drake's sister told NBC 5 News that the family thought some of the crowd was hostile, so the family departed the vigil.

Copyright 2004 by nbc5i.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[ralphwiggum 6]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/09/11/iraq.main/index.html

Quote[/b] ]BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Gunmen opened fire on a car carrying an Iraqi National Guard general on Saturday, killing him and his driver, national guard officials said.

Gen. Nashe Jawad Hassan was on his way to work when four attackers opened fire on his Mercedes with small arms fire, Col. Tha'ir Hadi said.

Hassan's son, 1st Lt. Ammar Nashe, and Col. Ali Abbass were critically injured in the drive-by shooting, according to Col. Sabri Salar.

The attack happened in Baquba, about 35 miles (56 kilometers) north of Baghdad.

Insurgents also kidnapped the wife and three children of an Iraqi National Guard officer in a town on the outskirts of Baquba, a Guard official said on Saturday.

Col. Abdulla Alshumari of the Iraqi National Guard said the family members of Col. Kahlis Hussein were abducted from their house, which was set on fire by a group of insurgents, who drove away in four Opels.

The incident took place at 1 p.m. in Hibhib.

"As of now, we heard nothing from the kidnappers with the regards to the conditions of their release," Col. Alshumari said.

The abductions came the day after five Iraqi police officers were kidnapped -- four in Najaf, and one in Baghdad.

Police think the Baghdad kidnapping and the recent abduction of two female Italian aid workers might have been conducted by the same people. The kidnappers in both incidents wore Iraqi national guard uniforms and used similar vehicles, they said.

The hostage-takers -- a previously unknown group calling itself the Contributing Forces for the Annihilation of Agents and Spies -- claimed the officers were chasing the "mujahedeen and harassing Muqtada al-Sadr."

The Arabic-language news network Al-Jazeera reported the four police officers' kidnappings in Najaf.

Video showed the four men surrounded by armed, masked men. One of them was held by the hair, forcefully raising his head.

Further south on Saturday, an Iraqi died and two others were wounded when a roadside bomb struck a U.S. civilian vehicle, which exploded near a compound housing a U.S. Embassy regional office in Basra, authorities said.

Gen. Mohammed Khadim of the Basra Police confirmed the casualty figures and said the incident took place after 4 p.m. local time.

A British military official said a U.S. civilian vehicle was struck by a bomb near the Basra Palace compound, which also houses some British military troops. British forces are based in the southeastern region of the country.

She said there were reports of U.S. casualties, but they have not been confirmed.

A U.S. Embassy spokesman in Baghdad said initial reports indicate no embassy personnel were hurt. The embassy office, opened in Basra since the transfer of sovereignty, has roughly 350 workers.

The office is referred to as an embassy regional office and not a consulate because the office has no official consular status at this time.

[turms 0]

Quote[/b] ]The hostage-takers -- a previously unknown group calling itself the Contributing Forces for the Annihilation of Agents and Spies -- claimed the officers were chasing the "mujahedeen and harassing Muqtada al-Sadr."

Where the hell they pick the names for these groups?

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]The hostage-takers -- a previously unknown group calling itself the Contributing Forces for the Annihilation of Agents and Spies -- claimed the officers were chasing the "mujahedeen and harassing Muqtada al-Sadr."

Where the hell they pick the names for these groups?

It's tough these days coming up with a name that has not yet been granted trademark status.

[Longinius 1]

Either that or they have been surfing the web to much, checking out various online clans and such...

[quicksand 0]

Familly Photo

Quote[/b] ]In the Iraqi city of Falluja, armed fighters claimed to have shot down an unmanned US Marines reconnaisance aircraft.

Unmanned aircraft - also called drones or Remote Piloted Vehicles (RPVs) - are used by the US army to relay video surveillance of enemy positions to commanders.

[Apollo 0]

Lol ,the whole point about UAV's (or RPV's if you wish) is that they cost nothing in death toll when they are shot down and they are easily replaced ,so shooting down one won't hurt the US a bit.This only enforces the idea that the US should go further on this technoligy and create UAV's wich can carry a bigger payload in weapons. (some UAV conversions already carry AT missiles and can probably carry other stuff)

[quicksand 0]

US air attack on Falluja kills civilians

Quote[/b] ]US forces have launched air strikes on the Iraqi town of Falluja, killing up to 18 people, including women, children and an ambulance driver.

Up to 29 others have been injured in the strikes, which began at 4am (0100 GMT), on different parts of the city, just west of Baghdad.

Seven people, including the driver of an ambulance, were killed when US aircraft fired a missile at the vehicle while it was transporting casualties near the northern gate of the city, Aljazeera has learnt.

"Every time we send out an ambulance, it gets targeted," Dr Rafea al-Isawi, director of Falluja hospital, told Aljazeera.

"How are we going to transfer casualties? This is unreasonable. The US army has no ethics.

"Shame on our government that cannot protect the people," he added.

Three homes were destroyed in the al-Shurta neighbourhood, according to the doctor. "Women and men have died," he said.

Witnesses said US warplanes swooped low over the city and some of the shelling appeared to be coming from American artillery units deployed on Falluja's outskirts.

Market place blast

One explosion went off in a market place as the first stall owners had just begun to set up their stalls, wounding several people and shattering windows, witnesses said.

<http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/rdonlyres/19287CF7-A5CE-4D8F-988B-F3CB37B6F1FF/48472/B8D9C0CA61E046FE9EC235837577E9AE.jpg>

US tanks are stationed outside

Falluja's northern gate

Others saw black columns of smoke rising over Falluja and said hundreds of families had begun leaving the town, largely under the control of those fighting US forces and the American-backed interim Iraqi government.

An Iraqi journalist told Aljazeera that fierce clashes had also erupted near the city's northern gate.

Several US army tanks have been stationed at the gate. The southern gate of the town has been closed.

Rising toll

The journalist said casualty figures were expected to rise as the clashes were continuing.

US tanks are also bombing homes in the al-Jughaivi neighbourhood near the northern gate.

The latest attacks follow a day of fierce clashes between Iraqi armed fighters and US troops across the country.

On Sunday, at least 110 people were killed in various parts of the country in an escalation of gun battles, car bombs and bombardments.

Over 100 killed across Iraq

Quote[/b] ]At least 110 people were killed across Iraq in a sharp escalation of anti-US forces violence that saw gun battles, car bombs and bombardments.

The Health Ministry on Sunday said the worst casualties were in Baghdad, where 37 were killed, and in Tal Afar near the Syrian border where 51 people died.

The capital suffered at least seven car bombs, and fighters fired a dozen mortar bombs or rockets around the so-called Green Zone compound housing the US embassy and the Washington-appointed interim government.

It was one of the heaviest barrages in Baghdad for months. "We've seen a tremendous increase in the number of attacks," said Brigadier General Erv Lessel, a US military spokesman.

Witnesses and officials said 13 people were killed and 61 wounded in fierce battles in central Baghdad.

Crowd hit

A US helicopter opened fire on a crowd milling around an abandoned armoured vehicle, killing a television journalist reporting from the scene.

The military said two helicopters were sent in "to prevent looting and harm to the Iraqi people" after four US soldiers were lightly wounded in the attack on the Bradley.

Reuters Television images showed Iraqis running for cover shortly before a blast felled Mazin Tumaizi, a producer with Dubai-based Al Arabiya TV.

Helicopter gunship attack cost The Palestinian died soon afterwards. Reuters cameraman Saif Fuad, recording the scene, was also wounded in the blast.

"I looked at the sky and saw a helicopter at very low altitude," Fuad said. "Just moments later I saw a flash of light from the Apache. Then a strong explosion," he said.

"Mazin's blood was on my camera and face," Fuad said from his hospital bed. He said his friend screamed at him for help: "Saif, Saif! I'm going to die. I'm going to die."

More attacks

US troops mounted a major offensive on Thursday in Tal Afar, a suspected haven for anti-US fighters about 100km from Syria. The military gave no immediate explanation for the heavy death toll there.

In Ramadi, west of Baghdad, US tanks and helicopters fired on a residential district, killing 10 Iraqis, including women and children, a doctor said. The US military had no immediate comment.

In other incidents, a car bomb killed a senior police officer, another policeman and a 12-year-old boy on a highway west of Baghdad.

Another bomber tried to drive through the gates of Abu Ghraib prison but US troops shot and killed him, the military said. Three people were wounded.

The US chopper that killed the journalist and a dozen more Iraqis fired at unarmed civillians that were celebrating around a burning Bradley after the US casualties were evacuated from the scene.How can this blatant gesture of barbaric revenge go unpunished and uninvestigated?

[Balschoiw 0]

Easy...they just wanted to make sure noone loots ammo or weapons from the bradley. Bad luck if you were near the burning vehicle...

[Acro 0]

These kind of incidents piss me so off. Killing people who had came to look what's going on at the street.

[Badgerboy 0]

Sadly this is what happens if you use Gunships to police the area. You can't use high explosives without killing civilians indescriminately.

The other side of that is to send in ground troops, but then they suffer at the hands of small arms.

[DracoPaladore 0]

While its a horrible incident, shouldn't people have learned by now that running out into the street and checking out an abandoned american vehicle almost guarantee a tax-payers paid bullet? Especially a Bradley or Abrams, I'm not overly surprised when it carries a good amount of amunition. Isn't it a rule that you never leave equipment such as that left behind for an enemy to use?

But I disapprove of their method. Firing into the Iraqi's from a gunship isn't a way to "prevent looting and harm to Iraqi's". Hypocrits.

[theavonlady 2]

Isn't it a rule that you never leave equipment such as that left behind for an enemy to use?

You've got to be a member first.

[quicksand 0]

According to the US military this picture shows either a Zarqawi associated ambluance or an insurgent ambulance with a mounted gun shred to pieces after the preceding air strike that succeded in killing a top Zarqawi associated medic,two Zarqawi associated nurses,and 5 Zarqawi associated wounded.

According to me this is yet another display of atrociusness and inhumanity that will be forgotten and recive zero media attention.Yeterday they killed more then a dozen Iraqis to protect them from "harm" and now they fire on ambulances,this makes me sick to my stomach and goes against anything civilisation should stand for.

Quote[/b] ](AFP)But an undertaker and angry residents denounced US claims that the victims were all Zarqawi aides.

"So far we received 15 bodies. Among them is an ambulance driver and two nurses, plus five wounded who were in the ambulance when it was bombed," said undertaker Falah Abdullah.

Three pick-up trucks carried the bodies to the cemetery, where a crowd of furious relatives washed and buried their loved ones, killed in the morning attacks, an AFP correspondent said.

Hamid Abbas, 32, said his windscreen smashed when a jet dropped a missile on the car in front.

"All of a sudden I heard a powerful explosion. A few seconds later, I saw the car on fire and charred bodies inside. People on the street were in a state of panic."

Medics said 20 people were wounded in the latest US strike on the militant stronghold since seven US marines were killed in a car bomb last Monday.

"They target peaceful families every day and every night. Then they say it's Zarqawi, weapons of mass destruction or terrorists they are after. Stop this destruction," said Sheikh Hamid Jaddoua.

[ralphwiggum 6]

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/rdonlyres/19287CF7-A5CE-4D8F-988B-F3CB37B6F1FF/48518/5691753BA62B49C284ED36B17EAC4076.jpg

According to the US military this picture shows either a Zarqawi associated ambluance or an insurgent ambulance with a mounted gun shred to pieces after the preceding air strike that succeded in killing a top Zarqawi associated medic,two Zarqawi associated nurses,and 5 Zarqawi associated wounded.

According to me this is yet another display of atrociusness and inhumanity that will be forgotten and recive zero media attention.Yeterday they killed more then a dozen Iraqis to protect them from "harm" and now they fire on ambulances,this makes me sick to my stomach and goes against anything civilisation should stand for.

Quote[/b] ](AFP)But an undertaker and angry residents denounced US claims that the victims were all Zarqawi aides.

"So far we received 15 bodies. Among them is an ambulance driver and two nurses, plus five wounded who were in the ambulance when it was bombed," said undertaker Falah Abdullah.

Three pick-up trucks carried the bodies to the cemetery, where a crowd of furious relatives washed and buried their loved ones, killed in the morning attacks, an AFP correspondent said.

Hamid Abbas, 32, said his windscreen smashed when a jet dropped a missile on the car in front.

"All of a sudden I heard a powerful explosion. A few seconds later, I saw the car on fire and charred bodies inside. People on the street were in a state of panic."

Medics said 20 people were wounded in the latest US strike on the militant stronghold since seven US marines were killed in a car bomb last Monday.

"They target peaceful families every day and every night. Then they say it's Zarqawi, weapons of mass destruction or terrorists they are after. Stop this destruction," said Sheikh Hamid Jaddoua.

no media coverage? the news you quoted was from AFP.

welcome to war. it's a hell. as much as you want to say that to US soldiers, it goes for other side too.

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]no media coverage? the news you quoted was from AFP.

I will have to eat my words on this one.First of all I was refering to US tv media.Secondly and here comes the silly one,my new cable provider gives me acces only to Fox so I myself don't have a balanced picture of US media often finding myself comparing it with what I read on the internet from AFP and Reuters.

Quote[/b] ]welcome to war. it's a hell. as much as you want to say that to US soldiers, it goes for other side too.

That doesn't mean that we shouldn't comment on actions and tag them unjustified and inhuman if called for,does it?

And no need to tell me how helish the war in Iraq is.The only way for me to have a better grasp at the misery and death it has brought is to actually be in there around the countless famillies that lost their loved over this conflict and feel on my own bones how it's like living with the thought that I could be moments away from my last breaths.

[ralphwiggum 6]

First of all I was refering to US tv media.Secondly and here comes the silly one,my new cable provider gives me acces only to Fox so I myself don't have a balanced picture of US media often finding myself comparing it with what I read on the internet from AFP and Reuters.

oy....Fox.....i really really pity you...your cable service SUCKS!

Quote[/b] ]That doesn't mean that we shouldn't comment on actions and tag them unjustified and inhuman if called for,does it?

as always there could be more to the story. let's see what happens.

[Jinef 2]

About that incident with the bradley - the pilot and cp/g would have seen the people and knew exactly what they were doing, just following orders. Think about that for a second before you run off to the AFCO.