Starship troopers 2: hero of the federation

[billybob2002 0]

The quick rundown (just saw it):

1. New weapons that include napalm grenade(s), "pulse" lmg (think Aliens), "pulse" rifle and "pulse" pistol. Officers (LT. and up) carry only a pistol and whistle (ala WWI). Also, they wear no armor. The whistle is used to signal a retreat or fall back when used. Furthermore, the grunts still wear the same armor that was seen in the first one.

2. There are two new bugs but only three types of bugs are shown in the movie.

3. It seems the war has become bogged down. Majority still believe in the war but a few are starting to question it. Think about Vietnam because Planet P was like Ia Drang (one of the first major victory by the US (federation) and etc.) and the Federation (US) are killing the bugs (NVA and VC) but they are still coming out the wood works. It seems babies are only being born to be used for in the Moble Infantry and other parts of the military.  

4. The actress who played the captain of the roger young that was killed is now a grunt sgt.....LOL

5. Probably the best cgi of any movie that was direct to video.

6. The acting is not bad nor good.

7. The ending seems rush but was completely different from what I thought it will be.

8. The roughnecks are not in it (sorry).

9. Zim was going to be the main character but the actor did not want to do it and so he was replaced by a character called Dax (still the main character).

10. You can tell it did not have a big budget but used they used thier budget smart.

Rent or Buy: RENT

I would give this 2.5 stars(close to 3) out of 5.

[hellfish6 7]

I prefer the book.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]I prefer the book.

Needs the book...

[Tex -USMC- 0]

I prefer the book.

snob

But the first movie will always hold a special place in my heart as one of my favorite B movies.

[denoir 0]

@ June 04 2004,23:38)]But the first movie will always hold a special place in my heart as one of my favorite B movies.

It wasn't a B-movie. It was a first class satire of B-movies.. or regular Hollywood productions and American culture. It's one of my all-time favourites.

I remember when I watched it the first time... after the first 10 minutes I was pissed off at what kind of crap I was watching.. Then after a while, I started noticing things like ..hmm..those insignias look a bit Nazi don't they... and more and more.. After 20 minutes I was really enjoing the movie. It's superb satire and the most amusing part is that so many people completely missed the point of the movie and watched it like it was just another crappy Hollywood action/teen movie.

There's a good part on the DVD extras where the director Paul Verhoeven tells with amusement how he chose the actors because they didn't see the undertext of the movie. They thought they were doing an action movie. They didn't get the fascist undertones and that the movie was a big foot up the ass to mainstream "patriotic" Hollywood movies.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

It wasn't a B-movie. It was a first class satire of B-movies.. or regular Hollywood productions and American culture. It's one of my all-time favourites.

I remember when I watched it the first time... after the first 10 minutes I was pissed off at what kind of crap I was watching.. Then after a while, I started noticing things like ..hmm..those insignias look a bit Nazi don't they... and more and more.. After 20 minutes I was really enjoing the movie. It's superb satire and the most amusing part is that so many people completely missed the point of the movie and watched it like it was just another crappy Hollywood action/teen movie.

There's a good part on the DVD extras where the director Paul Verhoeven tells with amusement how he chose the actors because they didn't see the undertext of the movie. They thought they were doing an action movie. They didn't get the fascist undertones and that the movie was a big foot up the ass to mainstream "patriotic" Hollywood movies.

It's very much a glorified B movie, but the fact that it used its status as such to do a commentary on fascism et al is why it's one of my favorites. It certainly does satirize B movies as well, but that doesn't change where its roots are.

[denoir 0]

@ June 05 2004,01:36)]It certainly does satirize B movies as well, but that doesn't change where its roots are.

Well, it depens on how you look at it. According to the IMDB it had a budget of $95,000,000 which is the equivalent of more than 95 B-productions.

If you are on the other hand refering to the cast, then certainly. But I'm not sure that a high-budget movie mimicing a low-budget movie can be classified as a b-movie.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Quote[/b] ]I prefer the book.

Needs the book...

In plot terms, the book is much different from the movie, but in terms of its theme it is very similar. Heinlien paints a picture of a fascist culture which is functional, effective, and utterly soulless. Great read. Funny side story- I did a book report on it in fourth grade and got a 'C'

[denoir 0]

The difference is that Heinlein seems to advocate such a system in his book, while Verhoeven takes the opposite view.

Edit: For the record, I havn't read the book so I don't know what I'm talking about

[Tex -USMC- 0]

@ June 05 2004,01:36)]It certainly does satirize B movies as well, but that doesn't change where its roots are.

Well, it depens on how you look at it. According to the IMDB it had a budget of $95,000,000 which is the equivalent of more than 95 B-productions.

If you are on the other hand refering to the cast, then certainly. But I'm not sure that a high-budget movie mimicing a low-budget movie can be classified as a b-movie.

My momma always told me B movie is as B movie does.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

The difference is that Heinlien advocates such a system in his book, while Verhoeven takes the opposite view.

I tend to think he was more conflicted on the subject than that. Although his understanding of fascism certainly tends to spring more from classical examples like Sparta, rather than the contemporary fascist states. The subtext of the book tends to come down rather against fascism, but that may just be me projecting- it certainly is an excellent piece of playing the devil's advocate.

Quote[/b] ]Edit: For the record, I havn't read the book so I don't know what I'm talking about

You hide it well

[denoir 0]

@ June 05 2004,01:51)]

The difference is that Heinlien advocates such a system in his book, while Verhoeven takes the opposite view.

I tend to think he was more conflicted on the subject than that. Although his understanding of fascism certainly tends to spring more from classical examples like Sparta, rather than the contemporary fascist states. The subtext of the book tends to come down rather against fascism, but that may just be me projecting- it certainly is an excellent piece of playing the devil's advocate.

Well, as I said, I havn't read it. I should probably do that some time. So although I am tempted on commenting on a book that I have never read, I will refrain from doing so

[hellfish6 7]

I didn't think it was a fascist book - I think the idea of service before self is a noble one. That's half the reason I enlisted. Is it fascist that one should be able to obtain benefits by putting the greater good before one's own interest?

[Tex -USMC- 0]

I didn't think it was a fascist book - I think the idea of service before self is a noble one. That's half the reason I enlisted. Is it fascist that one should be able to obtain benefits by putting the greater good before one's own interest?

No, but including a dissertation on the advantages of flogging as a form of punishment is.

[hellfish6 7]

I like flogging. It would keep forum members like you in line.

[Milkman 1]

FEDNET (The future World in the book/movie) is controlled by a Fascist Military Council, atleast thats what I got from watching the first movie. I remember one of the teachers in the beginning of the movie is giving a lecture and says "Now, who can tell me why democracy failed on earth?" Anyways I thought the movie was hilarious, the propaganda film bits in there are funny as hell.

[billybob2002 0]

I'm bored, so I going to tell the plot and ending (WARNING).

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The plot was like the thing or something like that. The plot takes place at the outpost where Dax is held at. Dax, the main character, killed his lt. col. because he got his men killed and so he was thrown in jail at a outpost (and he betrayed the Federation by killing him). Furthermore, he was really a "hero" but this was stripped from him. One of the "new" bugs called spy bug would get inside of you and take over (not like the brain bug but by going down the mouth). A general was taken over by one of these bugs and the "bug" general was to going "infect" the council with these "bugs" (make it in to a "bug" council and destory mankind). Dax and a female pvt. prevented this from happening by taken care of the general. However, before they did this, they had to kill the female's unit because they were "bugs" (taken over) now. Also, the people who originally were the "bugs" (not apart of the unit) that came to outpost after the female's unit got there were killed. Dax dies at end when he is fighting hundreds of bugs by himself on the rooftop of the outpost. Only the female private, with psychic abilities, survived and tells the Federation about the new bug (and Dax's actions). Dax becomes "Hero of the Federation" (Federation propaganda) but he did not really give a damn about the Federation because they did not care about the soldiers.

Note: FEDNET in this movie was REALLY B-movie quality. So, Zim was to become "Hero of the Federation" and not believe in Federation after years of fighting.

[pajama 0]

Ahhh saw the movie a bit while ago while in premierd a few times on the Action Channel...

I'm sorry to say that "Hero" it was one of the worst movies I ever saw. The only good thing I can say about it is the CG

I mean its worse even then most SciFi Channels original movies

and thats saying a lot

[IceFire 0]

@ June 04 2004,23:38)]But the first movie will always hold a special place in my heart as one of my favorite B movies.

It wasn't a B-movie. It was a first class satire of B-movies.. or regular Hollywood productions and American culture. It's one of my all-time favourites.

I remember when I watched it the first time... after the first 10 minutes I was pissed off at what kind of crap I was watching.. Then after a while, I started noticing things like ..hmm..those insignias look a bit Nazi don't they... and more and more.. After 20 minutes I was really enjoing the movie. It's superb satire and the most amusing part is that so many people completely missed the point of the movie and watched it like it was just another crappy Hollywood action/teen movie.

There's a good part on the DVD extras where the director Paul Verhoeven tells with amusement how he chose the actors because they didn't see the undertext of the movie. They thought they were doing an action movie. They didn't get the fascist undertones and that the movie was a big foot up the ass to mainstream "patriotic" Hollywood movies.

What are you talking about??

Starship Troopers was exactly that.  A simple summer action flick.  What undertexts?

And what the hell is a "B movie"?

[Akira 0]

@ June 04 2004,23:38)]But the first movie will always hold a special place in my heart as one of my favorite B movies.

It wasn't a B-movie. It was a first class satire of B-movies.. or regular Hollywood productions and American culture. It's one of my all-time favourites.

I remember when I watched it the first time... after the first 10 minutes I was pissed off at what kind of crap I was watching.. Then after a while, I started noticing things like ..hmm..those insignias look a bit Nazi don't they... and more and more.. After 20 minutes I was really enjoing the movie. It's superb satire and the most amusing part is that so many people completely missed the point of the movie and watched it like it was just another crappy Hollywood action/teen movie.

There's a good part on the DVD extras where the director Paul Verhoeven tells with amusement how he chose the actors because they didn't see the undertext of the movie. They thought they were doing an action movie. They didn't get the fascist undertones and that the movie was a big foot up the ass to mainstream "patriotic" Hollywood movies.

What are you talking about??

Starship Troopers was exactly that. A simple summer action flick. What undertexts?

And what the hell is a "B movie"?

Oh boy.

Well. Remember at the end when the Doogie Hooser comes out and starts talkin' crap about how they got the mother bug or some shit....any how...take a real close look at what he's wearing.

Looks awful SS don't ya think?

Remember all the cuts to the News style reels in the movie? Awful lot like the Movie-Tone news from WW2 don't ya think? Propoganda? Notice how they always talk about winning and doing everything you can for the fight (ie showing kids squishing bugs)? And then how the movie would always cut to a battle in which half the people got massacred? Gotta read into things...

Also notice how the bugs are refered to as just that..."bugs"? In the book it is made clear that they are intelligent, with a sophisticated social strata, while still being dismissed by the Federation as "just bugs". Intelligent enough for colonization. (Japs? Krauts?)

And most importantly, remember the important (but brief) lecture in the school?

The jist is, that if you don't serve in the military or government type position, you don't get to vote. Period.

Heinlen never really said he was advocating such a system, and when the book was written, he was all but accused of being a communist.

One thing that is missing from the movie that is in the book is the emphasis on "equal opportunity". That is to say, he makes quite a deal in the book that females that enlist or almost always picked to be pilots because women tend to grasp math and abstract theories better than males. Males like to blow shit up.

Also I don't remember the dumb ass romance between Denise Richards character and the dork on the ship. I do remember the Roger Young getting the shit blown out of it in the book though.

ASIDE: Heinlen purposely chose the name Robert Young for the ship, as that is a soldier (WW1 or 2...can't remember) that charged a machine gun nest to save his comrades, dove tailing nicely into his theme of self sacrifice for the good of the many.

I also heard he picked the main actors because they were "pretty". Kinda fitting in to the mindless mentality that Verhoevan was trying to go against.

The acting was horrible, but surprisingly that fit nicely in with the message.

In any case read the book. It will become quite clear.

Oh yeah. And it was really unclear if Heinlen advocated such a system. On one hand he seemed to say the people that sacrificed should be the only ones that should get to politically chose, but then show the process of sacrifice as almost a waste. That the "government" chose the battles, and it was the "commoners" that suffered the consequences, usually under false pretenses (patriotism, national safety, etc, etc.)

Fits nicely in today time wouldn't you say?

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]And what the hell is a "B movie"?

B Movies are ones that don't get the budget or the actors of A Movies (IE 120Million and Tom Cruise).

Where as the budget was pretty high, I don't think it went to the actors in this case.

B-Movies are sub-par movies. In the 50s for example there was "War of The Worlds", "Them", etc etc. that were generally shown during Matinees or in Drive-ins.

Now-a-days they tend to just go to video.

[Akira 0]

Oh yeah. And one more thing before I realize just how much time I'm spending on this...

The opening of the book is very important. You meet whats his butt. The main character and he's on his way to be dropped on a planet.

Except in the movie they have these nice drop ships...

Well in the book, each soldier is placed in their own little "cocoon" type thing and shot from the ship. The whole first few pages are about how you can see everything going on around you but you are helpless, seeming to imply the system (of government...not just deployment) lacks humanity. It isolates us from each other and the universe.

He talks about shooting through the atmosphere and seeing friends and other troopers blown up on the way down. It's actually a really good opening.

Also in the book all the soldiers are actually strapped into a Mech type thing, almost Robotech. Think of the loader in "Aliens" with guns, bombs, grenades, napalm, and flame throwers attached.

They toyed with showing that in the movie but decided it would just cost way too much.

[Gollum1 0]

Akira, don't forget the extended whipping scene,

after all the fun of the Federation Army he makes a critical mistake and is excruciatingly flogged for it,

fascis = an old Roman whip.

It just ties into the whole.

And yes I have read the book, completely different from the movie. The author even breaks into explaining his ideal fascist (?) system for a whole chapter.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Well in the book, each soldier is placed in their own little "cocoon" type thing and shot from the ship.

When I was reading that passage, I immediately thought of Quake 2. That's exactly the same way he landed in the game

Anyhow, whilst the book had some very interesting points to cover, his writing style I found a bit tiring and dull and I was struggling to finish his book. Mind you, if you have seen the movie before reading the book, you almost always are going to be disappointed.

[hellfish6 7]

IT'S NOT FASCIST!