The world at war(bbc -70)

[Taurus 20]

Too old perhaps? but history doesn't get newer.

Anyhow, here are my thoughts about it.

26 episodes in total (27 with the prelude), about 50 to 60 minutes each

The series mentions the build up of the war, the nazi movement in Germany, the situation the world was in before the war, economy, nazi and communist movements in other countries and the like.

The Versailles peace, and the effect that this had on the German people, and so on.

The German invasion of Poland, japans attack on Pearl Harbour

British, German and Italian battles in north Africa.

And the other theatres of war as well.

How civilian lives were in the countries involved.

The Blitz for example.

At the whole a very good series in an historical point of view, but with some very "odd" and not so neutral aspects of the war.

The later episodes discuss the pacific war, and you, as the viewer are "forced" to believe that US forces was the best, Japan soldiers on the other hand was "doomed" to die.

The last episode "Remember" which made me rather disappointed was that it showed only German assault on Russian civilians, Germans POW camps, with mass hangings and those things.

The episode doesn't even mention the Russian assault on polish, German, the Baltic states civilians, how Russia (Stalin) treated their own soldiers, and the Germans who they, the Russians took as POW.

The episode would turn anyone against the German soldier, and I really didn't like this behaviour.

For sure the Series could have come up with just one German soldier that served on either front, but they simply didn't.

The series in some episodes interviews Hitler’s staff, those that were still alive back then when the series was made.

Albert Speer, Hitler’s secretary (which I don't recall her name)

And some of the SS officers.

But not even one soldier.

I had, after viewing half of the series, greater expectations than this as I have read other books about World War 2, even those written by American authors who mentioned allies’ assault on civilians and the German soldiers.

Me myself wonders how I would have thought if I was, instead of being born in Sweden*, born in Germany and living in Germany now, with perhaps grandparents that either fought or died as an civilian in world war 2.

Would I be angry or even more disappointed with the series?

I posted this here, as I thought that if there were any that had viewed this series it would be in here, with people interested in war.

Anyone else seen it?

If so, your thoughts about it, either discuss the series, or the "non neutral" aspects that occurs in it if you think that is the case.

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*Sweden was so called neutral in ww2, but they had a very German friendly government, perhaps they were pro nazi too. The German leaders (Göbbels for instance I think it was) travelled a lot to Sweden on vacations.

One of them was even having a Swedish baroness as his girlfriend or "lover" if one wants to call her that.

Sweden even helped Germany to build and develop both Panzers and airplanes, even though the Versailles peace agreement.For example the German airforce refined their dive-bomb techniques.

The panzers was shipped to Sweden, packed as agriculture machines and boilers, the "boilers" was assembled in a factory (doesn't remember the name now) and tested by both German officers, officials and their Swedish counterpart in a panzer regiment based in Sweden.

A Swedish company developed the airplanes, but everyone knew Junkers owned the company.

The Swedish officials and government didn't "know" this of course.

Sweden provided Germany (Hitler) with precious iron for their war machine, let German forces use our railways to deploy troops in Finland, against Russia.

This "lend" of the railways was the only thing that Sweden did to help Finland.

Sweden had a slogan during these days

"Finlands sak är vĺr sak"

"Finland’s cause is our cause"

If one asks me, I think this was just plain propaganda.

Some Swedes did travel up to the border towards Finland, and some others volunteered to fight with the Finns, but it wasn't on a governmental level.

And in 1944, the summer, date sixth of June to be more precise, Sweden "suddenly" turned side.

Schools had, before 44 German as first choice of language in classes, autumn 44 it was English.

Some Swedes live under the impression that Sweden didn't have these racial thoughts that Germany had, or they simply rather not speak of it .But Sweden had it, and it was even well documented and widely spread in books such as dictionaries.

I don't think that any European country was unique in this aspect.

Some Swedes did do some good, rescuing some Jews from the holocaust.

Other Swedes fought in the German army to fight the communists, other Swedes fought alongside the allies in the landings in Normandy.

And the volunteers in Finland I mentioned earlier.

I could perhaps continue with the Swedish involvements, but I stop here as I for sure have bored you already.

I wrote this part about Sweden for those not so very updated on what Sweden did, or did not do in World War 2.

[turms 0]

Quote[/b] ]This "lend" of the railways was the only thing that Sweden did to help Finland

That is correct and not correct. Sweden sent 3000 voulantiers, aeroplanes and material, to the winterwar,they were in control of the northern part of finland.

As to the continuationwar, your words are correct.

As to the document, I find it natural that many documends

portray only the wiews of the winners, and perhaps the documentcrews countrymen.

[MLF 0]

well least it portrays other countries rather than just the US winning the war.

[denoir 0]

The_Taurus, what you posted is very one-sided. During the war Sweden was neutral except for some specific cases. Under the threat of invasion Sweden let in 1941 a whole German division ("the Engelbrekt") pass from Norway into Finland through its territory. It also provided Germans with iron ore during a part of the war. This was also under explicit threat of invasion.

Before the war Sweden had a very good business relationship with Germany. So did however other countries, including America.

As for the Swedish volunteers there were very few of them. A couple of thousand fought with the Finns against the Russians and only a couple of hundred faught for Hitler.

Inofficially Swedish intelligence started actively working with the allies in '42. Sweden was also fairly early a safe haven for refugees. About 200,000 people fled to Sweden during the war, most of them Jewish. Despite pressure from Germany, they were not extradited.

The Swedish government worked activley in Europe as well. Swedish diplomats that had freedom of movement in Germany forwarded information about the location of important industrial and military sites. The Swedish embassies forged identity documentation for people fleeing the Nazis, helping them escape.

Furthermore what you must do is to put everything in its historical context. Today we know more or less everything that the Nazis did. We've seen the pictures from the concentration camps etc And with that experience it is unfair to judge those that did not have it.

Reference about Sweden's role in ww2:

Sverige under 2:a Världskriget (Swedish)

[Taurus 20]

turms

Thanks for correcting me there

MLF

Yes, they say that Russia had most profit from ww2, and Russia payed an very high price for it as well.

denoir

Well yes, but I still think Sweden should have decided which side to support, not just playing doublesided all the time.

That's probably why I have made it, as you wrote it "very one-sided".

I'm not sure what the Swedish government knew or didn't knew about what the Nazis did, I think no one did, but helping Germany to rebuild it's army even when Germany had been forbidden to, aren't good in any views.

And yes England had thoughts about bombing the mines in northern sweden.

Thanks for the link, I'll read it for sure.

Furthermore I realize that I should have let Sweden out of this thread to begin with.

My misstake

[denoir 0]

Well yes, but I still think Sweden should have decided which side to support, not just playing doublesided all the time.

That's neutrality for you. And I don't see that Sweden had any better choice to make. Or better to say that the alternatives were worse.

Our military was in a tragic state. It was worse than WW1 level. Had we put up a fight, we would have been occupied within days. What good would that have done? The Germans would have gotten the iron ore anyway. What do you think would have happened to the Swedish Jews? etc Neutrality was the lesser of two evils.

Anyway, as for the BBC series, I watched it a year ago or so and found it excellent. Probably one of the best documentaries that I've seen. Much of it because it was made in the '70s when many of the key figures of WW2 were still alive. One should however keep in mind that it was made in the '70s when there were certain limits on what you could say or not about WW2. Still, I highly recommend it to everybody.

[somebloke 0]

Just something about the series, it has one of the most spine tickling theme tunes i've heard with a War series.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

You seem to be complaining about the fact that this is not what you hoped it would be - an all-encompassing, including everything type of documentary, with no bias,etc.

What you look for is the Holy Grail This doesn't exist. That's partially the beauty of history - to get as clear a picture as possible, you need to read as many varied sources as possible.

Only through this way can you feel to begin to understand what happened.

[Foxtrot87 0]

Quote[/b] ]Yes, they say that Russia had most profit from ww2, and Russia payed an very high price for it as well.

Yeah, that's why everyone says that communism helped restore the economy in the USSR after the war. If it hadn't been in an awfull condition then why would they have to restore it? Besides millions of people lost (less workers), all the main factories in the western part of the USSR destroyed (those which couldn't be moved to the eastern part), etc. Doesn't sound to me like a profit.

The country which realy benefited from this war was the USA. I'm not trying to push at America as some of the forum members may say. But the war nearly ended the unemployment in the USA and more and more factories were opening. Of course it wasn't the war only which helped the country to gain its power, Roosevelt had been doing everything to restore the economy after the Great Depression. And we must not forget those who died in the war on the battlefield fighting for freedom in Europe.

Quote[/b] ]The episode doesn't even mention the Russian assault on polish, German, the Baltic states civilians, how Russia (Stalin) treated their own soldiers, and the Germans who they, the Russians took as POW.

Perhaps i'm wrong but there has appeared a tendency lately that some German and Finnish and other people of the new generation know facts about the cruelty of some Russian soldiers. They know that their German ancestors did something bad in WW2 but still they find it pleasing to push at the Russian soldiers. Those kids cannot be blamed for what happened in WW 2 of course, it is not their fault. But how come do they start saying bad things only about the Russians when millions have died to free peoples of different nationalities including freeing Germany from the nazi regime? With such tendencies i can only imagine what people will be saying about WW2 in 100 years. Think about Russian, American, Polish, British, etc soldiers who died there.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Closed at thread starter's request.