The humble mission maker's ego

[The-Architect 0]

I've been looking at all the varous mission hosting sites and have noticed something universal to all of them.

As, no doubt, most of you have seen. Nearly every site allows its punters to add a comment next to the mission they have just downloaded. However, a vast majority of these fields are empty. It seems that once we've taken the mission from the site and played it, we forget about the person who's made it. I'm almost 100% positive that everybody who's spent hours building their mission, wants to get some feedback from the community. I know I do.

Usually you'll see a comment if there's something wrong with a mission, if its top quality or if its of bad quality. But still there seem to be so few.

What's motivated me to write this thread is that so many missions I find and download are either really poorly thought out, are really badly made or don't work at all. Every now and again I'll find a real gem and it makes up for the Mb's of "other" missions on my hard drive.

If there was some sort of information or feedback from other players which I could read before I start a download, not only would it save me time, but it would give the author just the feedback that he's after.

For the less talented mission makers it would provide them with hints and tips on how to improve that particular mission and for the more talented mission makers it would give them much deserved kudos.

I know that this thread isn't going to change the entire community but I do hope that maybe some people will see where I'm coming from.

If everybody is communicating then it can only be good for all of us.

Cheers for reading.

[somebloke 0]

Be prepared for tumbleweed mate.

[mrturncoat 0]

Here's an email I sent to toadlife a month or two ago, which didn't get a response, maybe he didn't see it:

Quote[/b] ]I just finished your mission, Operation LoJack2 v2.02 (BAS Rangers), for the

second time and I am very impressed. I finished it last night for the first

time and was blown away, even more so the second time. The intro/outro were

well done. The outro was hilarious, especially the dopey smile on the

soldier ("...no we wouldn't!"). I thought it was bad ass when the bomb smoke

clears in the outro revealing scorched earth and Nirvana starts up. I

thought the beginning, after teh crash, was very tense. It was out in the

woods, foggy and a little bit "too quiet" with the exception of the radio.

The enemies also were very awesome in that they would search and attack me.

The only thing I did not like was that after the chopper is attacked in the

beginning, my squad or I are often killed within a few seconds of hitting

the ground, but this doesn't take more than a few reloads usually to get it

to turn out okay.

The last paragraph really isn't an issue anymore. I dont know why, but when I first started playing the mission in ECP my squad would often be killed during insertion, or the enemy squad near the radio would survive and I'd land right on top of them and be killed before I can have a chance to figure out which direction I'm facing or where the enemies were. I play the mission in WGL and FDF and it works fine. Operation LoJack 2 is the mission I came to realizing just how damn fun it is to command a squad, previously I was more partial to taking orders.

I also like to edit the mission for my enjoyment too, usually taking place at dusk or night, with HYK/ZIR WGL soldiers. Walking through the dark or near dark, not seeing much of anything, then hearing some machine gun fire start up and it's on. Once again, a very impressive mission.

This is a good thread. I'll be back with more appreciation soon. I don't know if any of the mission makers I'd like to thank will see it, but at the least maybe some people here will find out about good missions they haven't played yet.

[mrturncoat 0]

For a more on topic, but succint post, I'd like to bring up King6's Swordfish trilogy.

Honestly, I think these are good missions, but would be superb if all the little bugs and hiccups were ironed out and the missions were optimized.

For instance, in Swordfish I, the insertion flight hangs up almost everytime for me. One way I found to fix this was to delete the two accompanying Apaches. Also a more direct flight path for the Blackhawk would also help things out. Instead of it flying first towards the aircraft carriers way out in the sea, I have made it fly a little bit off shore, then continue on its original path. And if the insertion chopper would wait for my squad to disembark, rather than just throwing me out and relying on me to manually eject my squad it would be improved further. The helo insertion in Swordfish III is a good example of how it should be done. Also the PBR ride should be cut down, if not being cut entirely with the squad beginning on shore.

And maybe the mission maker can't help it, but it's almost impossible for me to capture the sectorcheif in Swordfish I, my squad kills him after he joins my squad, forcing me to do my best to micromanage the troops with the clunky AI interface all while working against time trying to get the hell out of there before reinforcements arrive.

Upon reaching the extraction point, I find that the Blackhawk is waiting for me before I even call it, in fact, I can hear it flying in one place for the entire duration of the map. I'm not sure how to fix this (I'm just barely beginning to understand how a mission is made).

Now for Swordfish II. I have never completed this mission. For some reason, I suspect because of the base at FARP X-Ray and units waiting for my signal for the raid. If this could somehow be made to create the units only upon my signal, I think it might enhance the performance of the mission. Otherwise, it looks like it would be a phenomenal mission to play.

For Swordfish I and II, I find it is much better to use HYK Soldiers or MAP Soldiers, although those weren't around back when the missions were made. (That damn invisible CAR15 makes it a pain to give my squad NVGs or binoculars.)

More opinions on these missions and other missions to follow.

[Goeth 0]

I would like to thank Blake and Kegetys for nice coop´s. Keep ´em coming.

[General Barron 0]

PREACH ON, BROTHER ARCHITECT!

You are saying what I've been thinking for a long time: mission makers just don't get the credit or attention they deserve. If I didn't know any better, I would swear that the OFP community doesn't even PLAY missions... I know that is true for me, but that's just because I'm always making them.... that can't be true for everybody else too, can it?

Another thing that bothers me is that there is SO much attention given to addon makers, yet next to NO attention given to mission makers or even scripters. The only thing that is ever considered "news" on OFP sites is just screenshots of upcoming addons, or newly released addons.

Have you ever seen a news post that talks about a "great new mission" that is being made, or was just released? I haven't. Someone could release the greatest mission ever created for OFP, and not a word would be posted on any "ofp news" sites . Just check the post count under the "addons" boards here, and compare them to the post count on the "user missions" and "editing" boards here. Obviously, people are more interested in downloading new toys for OFP then they are in downloading missions to actually use those toys in....

I TOTALLY agree with you... as a mission maker, I LOVE to get even the slightest comment about my missions. I've been fortunate enough to get maybe 5-7 emails from people who enjoyed my missions, and I've always responded to every one. I wish everybody was like that, and would take the 2 seconds to give some feedback via email or comments to a mission maker. Comments are especially helpful, because like you said, it helps others decide whether to download the mission or not.

Anyway, I think we are the only ones who think this, so I'm afraid this will be nothing more than us letting off steam.

[theavonlady 2]

Anyway, I think we are the only ones who think this

Wrong!

Quote[/b] ], so I'm afraid this will be nothing more than us letting off steam.

Right.

[Sinister-tnuC- 0]

please let let me be arrogant for once

EVERY addon released should come with missons!!!

for example, BAS addons are just the best because they come with 2+ missions for every addon. i cant make missions and i really appreciate the magic behind them.

[Winters 1]

@ May 14 2004,05:28)]EVERY addon released should come with missons!!!

I have been ranting about this for the past 2 years

Quote[/b] ]Someone could release the greatest mission ever created for OFP, and not a word would be posted on any "ofp news" sites .

They did, it wasnt

[General Barron 0]

They did, it wasnt  

What mission is it? I'll play it and give feedback

[Winters 1]

They did, it wasnt  

What mission is it? I'll play it and give feedback  

Just check this link right here

[Major Fubar 0]

@ May 14 2004,19:28)]please let let me be arrogant for once  

EVERY addon released should come with missons!!!

for example, BAS addons are just the best because they come with 2+ missions for every addon. i cant make missions and i really appreciate the magic behind them.

I have found that this is happening more and more, so the situation is (slowly) improving...

[Asmodeus 0]

I hope the situation is improving!

I agree there is a lack of mission makers.  I think part of it stems from lack of beta testing...  An addon or mod team has dedicated beta testers, a lone mission maker doesn't usually.  Either way a good assortment of random beta testers is always best if possible.

I wish I could test more but it becomes a question of testing or making and I like to create stuff most of the time!    

I think the other part is lack of feedback as stated before.

So, anyone who has a spare moment, help a mission maker out!  Give feedback, beta test to help make a mission better and be part of the process!      

Asmo

[pajama 0]

For me, I struggle when making missions as they never finsih or are complete...its not that I run out of ideas or any of sorts, its just that I think like me, many people try or want to capture their missions in a cinematic mean. This although possible through relentless trails and errors in scripting and such can and well lead to a person just in the end outright giving up.

Perhaps if mission makers were more open to their work as to such like 3D artist or moders in which each and every step is helped out and discuss. This would bring mission making into a more fun and dynamic thing to do.

But hey whatever I just babled about is probably all BS

sincerly

PJ

[Commando84 0]

Yeah i totally agree with you people, i hate it when people whines about the usage about addons.

I either get to hear that there is lots of addons but not much good missions that uses them or then that my mission uses to many addons so im all confused now

just to promote my very addon intensive mission here is a link

OFPEC beat testing board

[General Barron 0]

Quote[/b] ]Perhaps if mission makers were more open to their work as to such like 3D artist or moders in which each and every step is helped out and discuss. This would bring mission making into a more fun and dynamic thing to do.

PJ,

Head on over to the OFPEC forums. There you will find that any question you may have will be answered almost right away, and everybody is very helpful and willing to discuss mission making with you. Unlike the mission editing board here, which is kinda like a ghost town, OFPEC is home to tons of players who love editing.

It actually takes much longer for me to get a question answered about addon making than it does for me to get a scripting question answered; here or on any other board. So my experience seems to be exactly the opposite of what you describe.

[pajama 0]

Perhaps my lack of visit to OFPEC's forums is its lack of activity in modding...

Now an'nt I an oxymoron

Well I guess its time to relogin with my old Pajama_Man account I hav'nt used since Augest of last year

Thanks a lot

[mganik 0]

When I first read this topic, "The humble mission maker's ego, give 'em a boost" I thought, yeah, mission makers could use more positive feedback, and when needed, more constructive feedback on how to improve their missions.

The topic has covered a bit more ground, including how AddOns seem to get a lot more attention in the "news".  I've noticed that too.  It seems to me that most AddOns get more attention because they're easier to review and are usually eye candy, and usually fun to immediately play with.  They're something you can usually immediately see and share screen shots with others.  To me, this is like producing a new hardware product for consumer sales.

Missions, on the other hand, are a lot like developing software.  Software doesn't usually give good product visuals, but takes a lot of work and effort to produce something that is new and exciting.  And, bug testing and maintenance usually is a big factor.  It can be a major job to create a new and original mission, one with the right amount of fun gameplay, camera and voice additions, and new or creative scripts.  I would imagine that many of the folks that work on the best missions have a Software Engineering or Computer Science background, or have self-learned over the years.

My point is that a GOOD mission requires a lot of time, skill and effort.  

Over the past 3 years, I've seen a lot of missions ... and every now and then there's a really good one.  Many of these missions start out with "this is my first mission" and I think a lot of folks stop producing missions after that.

I've read that some folks in another thread are trying to come up with some ideas to encourage more missions.  I've seen a few recommendations on what some people consider to be elements of a good mission.

In the theme of providing more positive feedback, I think it would be good to list suggestions, opinions, and general rules of good mission construction.  These could then be shared with mission makers as guidelines that may help them to create even better missions.

Here's a quote from TJ to start this off:

Quote[/b] ]IMHO,  a great mission works this way.

1) Its fun to play, over and over and over. To that end there should be random elements in it, and the ability for a player to predict AI movements should be limited. Random environmental factors and/or time of day adjustments.

2) it should be realistic. This is a measure of the skill of a mission maker. for example, a group of west soldiers are attacking an east position, but 200m up the road there are east units in safe mode, would be a poor reflection of reality.

Again, the mission storyline should be feasible, and not some fantasy scenario eg. Zombies attacking a town etc. OFP is a combat simulation, not an arcade game.

3) It should all 'work'. Again a test of the mission makers talent. Triggers should always fire when they should. Trying to hunt down single fleeing units to end a mission is a classic example of poor implementation.

Also, a talented mission maker will appreciate the differences in the PC speed of the user base, and scripts and things used will reflect that. The mission should be playable on the recommended specs for OFP RESISTANCE.

4) The mission should be original. Although it might be an idea to suggest a theme for each category decided on, the actual gameplay and scenario's that are acted out should display imagination and original thought on behalf of the maker. Eg, what elements did they add to an ambush style mission to make it more rewarding?

5) The breifing and gameplay should be clear, and the player should at no time be in doubt as to what he is supposed to be doing. While not making the mission too linear, it should flow properly towards its conclusion.

6) For single player missions especially, the use of cutscenes should show skill and ability with the camera. Cutscenes should be useful to the game, and maybe imparting clues as to gameplay, that are not mentioned in the breifing etc. A proper intro as well as outro for each scenario is cool.

7) use of music. This should reflect the game and add atmosphere, NOT distraction. Obviously it goes without stating that any music used should be copyright free.

ref:

Mission Competition Ideas Thread

What are your thoughts or ideas on GOOD missions?  Do you have any opinions, suggestions, or rules to share?

Best regards,

mganik