Us presidential election 2004

[shinRaiden 0]

Well do you want us to take care of the whole world or not? You europeons have all your equipment that you didn't volunteer for Iraq and Afghanistan that you could go do something about, instead of just documenting the butchery for historical pundits to peruse centuries from now.

[Blake 0]

Quote[/b] ]you didn't volunteer for Iraq and Afghanistan

Are you just being arrogant? There are THOUSANDS of German & other European soldiers in Afganistan right now.  

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/Allied_Forces_In_Afghanistan

Australia, Austria, Canada, Denmark, France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Spain, Sweden, Turkey, and the United Kingdom

for starters

[EiZei 0]

Well do you want us to take care of the whole world or not? You europeons have all your equipment that you didn't volunteer for Iraq and Afghanistan that you could go do something about, instead of just documenting the butchery for historical pundits to peruse centuries from now.

That's the point. We wont go around supporting questionable regimes or destablizing countries, at least then nobody can blame us. We are way past the "white man's burden" thingie you know.

[shinRaiden 0]

Read the entire post please.

Quote[/b] ]

all your equipment that you didn't volunteer

Yes some of you sent a portion of your stuff to those places. Your military and ours still have much more undeployed resources. Those were what I was referring to, you're more than welcome to follow our example and lift a finger to help out the impoverished closer to your home.

[quicksand 0]

How many civilians would have continued to be killed under Saddam Hussein had we not gone into Iraq?  Just because you don't hear about those deaths on the mainstream news, does it mean that they were ok?  Sure there maybe have been deaths in the short-run, but in the long-run a safe Iraq will be better for all involved.

And what about Sudan?  What about Rwanda back during the Clinton administration?  No countries did anything, to include the United States and Europe.  At least Bush is trying to do something instead of just sitting there.

Hi NavyEEL.While it's highly arguebly that more then 100,000 Iraqi innocents would have been killed in the future under Saddams regime, the countries infrastructure would have crumbled by itself and every single Iraqi citizens would worry that the current,the next,the future days could be his last I will go with your asumption.

But I am dreadfully curious about some issues in your comment.First of all is it feaseble to say that a resolution for the Iraq war would have passed the US congress justificating war not against an ally of terrorist organisation needs to be dealt with,not against a government persuing WMD that could end in Al-Queda hands,not trying to avoid an imminent humanitarian desaster shaping up in the country but because there are some Iraqis that are going to be killed by an oppresive regime because they oppose the government.

It also comes to question how many countries fall into the same exact criteria of:''Oprresive leadership that kills or imprisions opposition elements''.

Quote[/b] ]At least Bush is trying to do something instead of just sitting there.

First of all doing something and doing something right are two diferent things often separated by a huge gap.Look,out of desire of attending my daughters birthday I push the speed a tad pass the limit but unfortunatly end up ramming it into an innocent side walker marking the end of his life.Indeed I am trying to do something instead of just sitting there,I just wonder how would that help my case and change the severity of my action.

[denoir 0]

Read the entire post please.

Quote[/b] ]

all your equipment that you didn't volunteer

Yes some of you sent a portion of your stuff to those places. Your military and ours still have much more undeployed resources. Those were what I was referring to, you're more than welcome to follow our example and lift a finger to help out the impoverished closer to your home.

You mean like Congo? Or Kosovo? Or East Timor? We have far more troops in international peace keeping than you do. Not to mention that the EU gives orders of magnitude more humanitarian aid.

The bid difference is however that we don't start wars.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]The image does not provoke flaming between users, so it's not an issue as far as the forum rules go.

Iraq thread repsonse...

Monkey Lib Front:

Quote[/b] ]lol excellent.

[Monkey Lib Front 10]

Quote[/b] ]The image does not provoke flaming between users, so it's not an issue as far as the forum rules go.

Iraq thread repsonse...

Monkey Lib Front:

Quote[/b] ]lol excellent.

it was in responce to the Picture albert posted.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]The image does not provoke flaming between users, so it's not an issue as far as the forum rules go.

Iraq thread repsonse...

Monkey Lib Front:

Quote[/b] ]lol excellent.

it was in responce to the Picture albert posted.

It was the same picture that was posted in this thread.

[billybob2002 0]

Screw it! It is a lost cause. Anyway, the map...

Square miles of counties won:

Bush 3.28 million

Kerry 741,000

Population (2003) of counties won:

Bush 150.9 million

Kerry 103.6 million

I live in the blue in Maryland....

[Akira 0]

It's interesting to note that Bush lost the big cities and the college communitites, and won all the rural areas....go figure.

I live in that one patch of blue in the middle of Texas

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]I live in that one patch of blue in the middle of Texas

Austin, or Travis county, right?

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]I live in that one patch of blue in the middle of Texas

Austin, or Travis county, right?

That would be it if anyone ever wondered where in Texas it was

The reason the whole county is not colored in is because Georgetown on the northern edge of Travis County went for Bush. Thats why just hte bottom half of the county (Austin) is blue.

[Acecombat 0]

But Akira said Austin was a dem stronghold unless i have forgotten where austin is in texas the place is all red right now

Austin is in the top middle right? Or is that small blue in between Austin? It cant be called a stronghold then theres more blue down underneath near houston , where some of my cousins live

[Akira 0]

But Akira said Austin was a dem stronghold unless i have forgotten where austin is in texas the place is all red right now

Austin is in the top middle right? Or is that small blue in between Austin? It cant be called a stronghold then theres more blue down underneath near houston , where some of my cousins live

It's called a stronghold because we are surrounded by Republicans. The Valley is the blue part near Corpus Christi and San Pedro Island. The one part on the far west is El Paso. Houston is actually colored white on the map. Not sure how it went, but they usually elect Dems to the state legislature.

EDIT: Travis is the blue county in almost the exact middle of the state.

[feersum.endjinn 6]

Quote[/b] ]Sure there maybe have been deaths in the short-run, but in the long-run a safe Iraq will be better for all involved.

You should use the word maybe. And we are talking about 100,000 deaths directly/indirectly after the invasion

in a period of 16 months compared to 200,000-300,000 death in period of 35 years of Saddam Hussein regime. I supported the war but I just wanted to point out these statistics.

There were at least 600 000 documented civilian executions during Saddam's regime (compiled by The Documental Centre for Human Rights in Iraq). All in all during 24 years he was in power it averaged at least 75-125 deaths... I supported the war too, but just wanted to correct your statistics

Some sources put total death toll at 8 millions (including deaths resulting from wars etc.)

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]But Akira said Austin was a dem stronghold unless i have forgotten where austin is in texas the place is all red right now

Austin is in the top middle right? Or is that small blue in between Austin? It cant be called a stronghold then theres more blue down underneath near houston , where some of my cousins liv

My county is a fecking dem. stronghold.

I'm pissed at them for allowing 5 new developments to be built on the road where my community is on. The schools are already overcrowded and the traffic is bad during the morning. Who would of thought dems. going after the money...

[Monkey Lib Front 10]

Quote[/b] ]The image does not provoke flaming between users, so it's not an issue as far as the forum rules go.

Iraq thread repsonse...

Monkey Lib Front:

Quote[/b] ]lol excellent.

it was in responce to the Picture albert posted.

It was the same picture that was posted in this thread.

no it wasn't i beleive it was the independant one.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]no it wasn't i beleive it was the independant one.

Nope, they were the same. Anyway, just let it die....

[Acecombat 0]

But Akira said Austin was a dem stronghold unless i have forgotten where austin is in texas the place is all red right now  

Austin is in the top middle right? Or is that small blue in between Austin? It cant be called a stronghold then theres more blue down underneath near houston , where some of my cousins live  

It's called a stronghold because we are surrounded by Republicans. The Valley is the blue part near Corpus Christi and San Pedro Island. The one part on the far west is El Paso. Houston is actually colored white on the map. Not sure how it went, but they usually elect Dems to the state legislature.

EDIT: Travis is the blue county in almost the exact middle of the state.

Thanks for explaining.

By the way can foreigners vote in the US election i mean people who live in the US have US nationality but are still outsiders? I think i heard somewhere that they cant maybe theres some stipulation to that or i am misinformed?

[Akira 0]

But Akira said Austin was a dem stronghold unless i have forgotten where austin is in texas the place is all red right now

Austin is in the top middle right? Or is that small blue in between Austin? It cant be called a stronghold then theres more blue down underneath near houston , where some of my cousins live

It's called a stronghold because we are surrounded by Republicans. The Valley is the blue part near Corpus Christi and San Pedro Island. The one part on the far west is El Paso. Houston is actually colored white on the map. Not sure how it went, but they usually elect Dems to the state legislature.

EDIT: Travis is the blue county in almost the exact middle of the state.

Thanks for explaining.

By the way can foreigners vote in the US election i mean people who live in the US have US nationality but are still outsiders? I think i heard somewhere that they cant maybe theres some stipulation to that or i am misinformed?

If you are a US citizen, you can vote.

[Acecombat 0]

Ok so all US nationals are equal? I was led to believe by some that they dont give out the 1st grade nationality or whatever to a newcomer only if someones born there gets the real one. Which means they are stripped of some priveleges? Or is this all crap?

By the way listening to Green Day - American Idiot currently , nice song and fits the mood perfectly

[billybob2002 0]

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash5.htm

Quote[/b] ]

KEY MOMENTS – INSIDE THE CAMPAIGNS

Wed Nov 03 2004 19:40:31 ET TIME REVEALS A SERIES OF UNTOLD STORIES AND CRISES IN THE BUSH AND KERRY CAMPAIGNS

How Bush Laid A Trap for Kerry on Iraq

The Bush Team's Reaction to the bin Laden Videotape Helped The President and Hurt Kerry

How Bush Pulled McCain Into His Camp

Kerry Was Furious When Word of ‘Strategy Call’ With Clinton Was In Newspapers Shortly Before Clinton Heart Surgery

New York –TIME goes behind the scenes of the Bush and Kerry campaigns and reveals a series of untold stories and crises as well as the key moments that changed the race for President. Bush and Kerry weren’t only battling each other -- in the hunt for every last vote, each man had to rediscover his own instincts as well, TIME’s Karen Tumulty, John Dickerson, Perry Bacon and Jay Carney report.

BUSH: How the President laid a trap for Kerry on Iraq after the Democratic Convention: After the Democratic National Convention, when Kerry was seen as a more plausible Commander in Chief, the Bush team planned to bait Kerry by inserting into every speech Bush’s question, "My opponent hasn’t answered the question of whether, knowing what we know now, he would have supported going into Iraq." Some on the Bush team feared Kerry wouldn’t take the bait, TIME reports. Bush adviser Mary Matalin tells TIME, "We weren’t sure he would do it. We thought we might see the strong closer everyone had talked about." But three days later at the Grand Canyon Kerry responded to a reporter who posed Bush’s question, saying he believed even now it was right to authorize the use of force. "We couldn’t believe that he went for it," says White House communications director Dan Barlett. Barlett answered a message on his Blackberry asking if Kerry had given the campaign a gift. "Yes, and my boss it about to open it," he replied. They crafted a speech in which Bush lampooned Kerry’s "new nuance" concluding with the mocking compliment "I want to thank Senator Kerry for clearing that up."

Other key moments, behind the scenes:

BUSH AND KERRY: How Do We Play The Videotape?: Four days before the election Bush learned that Osama bin Laden had delivered another video to al-Jazeera. It looked like the opportunity to ride the storyline the White House loved best—right through the final days. It would "bring the security moms back home," said a Bush adviser, describing the campaign’s view of the political benefit. Word went out from Air Force One that no one in the campaign or at G.O.P. headquarters was to make a political calculation within earshot of a reporter. Once aides were sure the video was being aired, however, Bush wrote down some remarks that included Senator John Kerry. "We knew that Kerry couldn’t resist responding more than he should on these issues," said a senior White House aide at the time. "He has to show that he knows better." The President lured Kerry in a brief statement: "Americans will not be intimidated or influenced by an enemy of our country. I’m sure Senator Kerry agrees with this." Then the Bush campaign’s rapid-response team discovered remarks Kerry had made to a local Wisconsin TV station, reiterating that Bush had let bin Laden slip away at Tora Bora. The Bushies cried foul and had Bush do so in his last speech of the day. "It’s the worst kind of Monday-morning quarterbacking," said Bush. "It is especially shameful in the light of a new tape from America’s enemy," TIME reports.

KERRY: "He Says Saddam? You Say Osama": The first debate—the one on foreign policy—would be the crucial one. Kerry was going to have to make two big, risky points: The war in Iraq was not the war on terrorism, and Saddam Hussein was not Osama bin Laden. Again and again, Klain coached Kerry: "He says Saddam? You say Osama," TIME reports.

BUSH: How Bush Pulled McCain Into His Camp: At times, John McCain’s television appearances were scary duck-and-cover drills for the Bush message team. On the eve of the first debate, campaign communications director Nicolle Devenish drew the line: McCain was forbidden to go into the postdebate spin sessions and give praise to both sides. That would be a loss for Bush. "People see you as the referee," she said. "We need you to be for us." By the third debate, Bush asked McCain to sit in the audience in his line of sight for moral support. But it was as much to be seen by the audience.

KERRY: Return of Bill Clinton, the Ace Campaigner: Hours after word spread that Bill Clinton was being rushed to the hospital for emergency bypass surgery, Kerry telephoned him to wish him luck, and Clinton, alarmed at the drift of Kerry’s campaign, suggested they make some time over the weekend to have a serious talk. The two made the connection around 10 p.m. the next day, a Saturday. By the time they finished—Clinton mostly talking and Kerry mostly listening—it was nearly midnight. One message stuck. "If you’re the issue in this campaign, you lose," Clinton told Kerry. "If he’s the issue in this campaign, you win. Stay in his face." News of the call was all over the papers by Monday. Kerry was furious. Some believed that Clinton’s real interest was in clearing the way for Hillary to run in 2008.

KERRY: Waiting Too Long To Fight Back Against Swift Boat Veterans for Truth: Kerry’s handlers, led by pollster Mark Mellman and consultant Bob Shrum, had convinced themselves it was unwise to respond to the Swifties’ ads, which were running in only three states, because it would serve to amplify the phony charges. But Kerry was jolted to respond when, at the Veterans of Foreign Wars national convention in Cincinnati, Ohio, on Aug. 18, dozens of vets asked, "What are you waiting for? You gotta fight back!" Kerry was livid. The campaign quickly changed gears, TIME reports.

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Quote[/b] ]By the way listening to Green Day - American Idiot currently , nice song and fits the mood perfectly

lol yeah, had to have it on for Bushs speech just to drown out any cringe inducing slogans

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]I was led to believe by some that they dont give out the 1st grade nationality or whatever to a newcomer only if someones born there gets the real one. Which means they are stripped of some priveleges? Or is this all crap?

A newcomer can vote if he/she becomes a citizen. He/she just have to pass the test or something then they are a US citizen.