Us presidential election 2004

[billybob2002 0]

Erm...I think I found the 82nd AB-Afghanistan time

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/US-82nd-Airborne-Division

Quote[/b] ]

After the United States was attacked on September 11, 2001, the 82nd's 49th Public Affairs Detachment and several individual 82nd soldiers deployed to Afghanistan and the Central Command Area of Responsibility to support combat operations.

In June, 2002, elements of the Division Headquarters and 3rd Brigade deployed to Afghanistan in support of Operation Enduring Freedom. In January, 2003 1st Brigade relieved 3rd Brigade, and continued the Division's support of Operation Enduring Freedom.

The 2nd brigade of the Division took part in Operation Iraqi Freedom in early 2003. The brigade returned to the US by mid-February, 2004. The 3rd brigade of the division deployed to Iraq in the summer of 2003, redeploying to the US in Spring, 2004. The 1st brigade deployed to Iraq in January, 2004.

Staff Sgt. Paul J. Johnson (Missy Johnson) was in the 3rd brigade.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Oh how brave of you.

Least m21man (I think) has stated he is going to volunteer and enlist after HS. I will give him that for backing his words with actions.

You on the other hand spout it out and don't back it up.

"I'll be happy to serve if they make me!"

erm... I posted a long time ago that I'm going to enlist after graduating...

[Bernadotte 0]

Question for all readers as we enter the final month before the election:

<span style='font-size:11pt;line-height:100%'>How do you rate the probability of TBA capturing/killing Osama bin Laden before 2 November?</span>

A.)  Very likely.

B.)  Somewhat likely.

C.)  Somewhat unlikely.

D.)  Very unlikely.

I say very likely.

[billybob2002 0]

B.) Somewhat likely.

[shinRaiden 0]

More to the story... (email from Chris Vance, Washington State GOP Chair)

Quote[/b] ]Overnight the Washington State office of the Bush-Cheney ’04 campaign was broken into in what looks like one of several deliberate attempts to disrupt the re-election campaign. During the morning hours after the first Presidential debate concluded, a rock was thrown through a window of the office and only computers belonging to key campaign staff were stolen. The exact same thing happened in 2000. The joint Gorton/Bush office was broken in to and the computer of the Bush Executive Director was stolen.

Also last night the WSRP got reports of voters receiving phone calls asking who they supported for President. Those who identified themselves as Bush supporters were asked if they would still support the President if they knew he planned on re-starting the draft. This is a lie, as the President made clear in the debate last night.

In addition, the WSRP has received numerous accounts of vandalism against cars with Bush bumper stickers, and against Bush yard signs. In Snohomish County there have even been instances of Bush signs on private property that were set on fire.

As for the voter registration deadline, October 2nd is the last day to register by mail, but you still have two more weeks if you hand deliver it to your county elections office here in Washington.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]Oh how brave of you.

Least m21man (I think) has stated he is going to volunteer and enlist after HS. I will give him that for backing his words with actions.

You on the other hand spout it out and don't back it up.

"I'll be happy to serve if they make me!"

erm... I posted a long time ago that I'm going to enlist after graduating...

Then I stand corrected. Good luck to ya.

When do you graduate?

[walker 0]

Hi all

In the body language of Thursdays Debate John F. Kerry was clearly the winner standing tall and conducting himself with a confident and allready presedential air.

Mean while his Texan oponent scowled, ground his teeth squinted and slouched over the lectern. Looking uncomfortable and out of his depth in presedential debate.

Quote[/b] ]ALLENTOWN, Pa., Oct. 1 -- As Democratic nominee John F. Kerry criticized President Bush in Thursday night's presidential debate, Bush scowled, squinted, clenched his jaw and appeared disgusted as he hunched over his lectern -- images that were beamed into millions of American homes.

The episode was reminiscent of the first debate of the 2000 presidential campaign, when Al Gore's loud and pained sighs made the Democrat appear contemptuous and condescending, turning what could have been a victory into a political debacle for him. On Thursday night, it was Bush's aggravated demeanor that contributed to the impression that Kerry won the debate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1574-2004Oct1.html

Many republicans were not pleased with their candidate's performance and have spent the time since the debate spinning that the debate was a draw or arguing that the texan is not very good in presedential debate anyway but he could have other good features.

The differences were telling and the texan clearly lost many undecided voters to John F. Kerry

You can check out more about the John F. Kerry campaign at the Democratic site also see the "Faces of Frustration" which is quite funny:D http://www.democrats.org/

Kind Regards Walker

[walker 0]

Hi all

FOR MANY OF YOU TODAY Saturday 2nd of October IS YOUR LAST CHANCE TO REGISTER TO VOTE For these elections

If you live in: the District of Columbia, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee and Washington Register NOW Tell your friends and family too.

States with Sunday 3rd of October as deadline

Alaska and Arkansas

States with Monday 4th of October as deadline

Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Indiana, Kentucky, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas, and Virginia.

If your state has not been mentioned; there is a full list of dates you have to be registered by on Michael Moore's site along with links to where you can register.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/takeaction/vote/register.php

For those of you in Florida there is lots of shenanigans going on yet again. Check you are realy registered some peoples registration forms have been ignored because of claims the forms have not been filled in correctly. Voter registration groups are atempting to find out who the people are to warn them but have had to bring a court case to do so. If in florida double check you realy are registered to vote take friends along to witness and confirm it.

Report any shenanigans to the Voter Fraud Hotline: 877-868-3737

There is a the Toll-Free Voter Assistance Hotline: 866-308-6739

Register to Vote this is the closest election in decades your vote counts In Florida it will go down to the wire.

Kind Regards Walker

[turms 0]

A.) Very likely.

Just before the votingday he just "appears" from nowhere

[Bernadotte 0]

For what it's worth, Bush's hometown newspaper has "wholeheartedly" endorsed John Kerry.

My favourite line from the endorsment:

Quote[/b] ]What has evolved from the virtual go-it-alone conquest of Iraq is more gruesome than a stain on a White House intern’s dress.

Meanwhile, former NYC mayor, Ed Koch, remains one of the few prominent democrats endorsing Bush.  According to Koch:

Quote[/b] ]"While I don't agree with Bush on a single domestic issue, they are all trumped by the issue of terrorism, where he has enunciated the Bush Doctrine and proven his ability to fight this war," said Koch. "The Democratic Party just doesn't have the stomach to go after terrorists."

The most interesting line from the Koch endorsment:

Quote[/b] ]"You see, I was elected mayor because New Yorkers trusted my insights and common sense," explains Koch. "And I believe they still do. They and the rest of America must realize Islamic terrorists want to destroy us, and there are hundreds of millions of them. I want a president who is willing to go after them before they have the chance to kill us."

Hundreds of millions of them??  

It's really tragic to see a partner in a NYC law firm who spent most of his life as an elected public servant succumb to such Islamophobia.

[denoir 0]

Bush on the other hand made a good case that it was a problem that Kerry called the Iraq war a "great distraction" - that it sent mixed signals to the troops. I think that Bush won on consistency there.

Well, actually Bush claimed that Kerry called the Iraq war a grand diversion, which is quite different from a "great distraction."  Bush said this 3 times, but then again, Bush repeated a lot of things 3 times.

Kerry might have said "grand diversion" elsewhere, but he didn't say that during the debate.  Nonetheless, he quite clearly stated that US military forces should not have been diverted from Afghanistan to Iraq.  

grand diversion, great distraction, whatever

Quote[/b] ]

grand    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (grnd)

adj. grand·er, grand·est

Large and impressive in size, scope, or extent; magnificent: The bridge that crosses the bay is a grand structure.

Rich and sumptuous: A grand meal was laid before them.

Of a solemn, stately, or splendid nature.

Dignified or noble in appearance or effect: a grand old face that bespeaks suffering but not defeat.

Noble or admirable in conception or intent: a grand purpose.

Lofty or sublime in character: a speech delivered in the grand style of the great orators.

Wonderful or very pleasing: had a grand time.

Having higher rank than others of the same category: a grand admiral.

Having more importance than others; principal: the grand ballroom of a hotel.

Of a haughty or pretentious nature.

Including or covering all units or aspects: the grand total.

di·ver·sion    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (d-vűrzhn, -shn, d-)

n.

The act or an instance of diverting or turning aside; deviation.

Something that distracts the mind and relaxes or entertains.

A maneuver that draws the attention of an opponent away from a planned point of action, especially as part of military strategy.

The point remains the same. To use Kerry's own words: How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?

What type of message does it send to the troops and their families. Or especially the families of the US casualties.

This has nothing to do with the reality of if the war necessary or not. It has to do with the perception of the US public, which we should not forget were strongly for the war in the first place. And most of all it has to do with how well it can be presented by sound bits and short video clips in media.

Kerry needs to use several sentences to explain his position. Bush can do it in a much more compact format and it is quite relevant for presenting in media.

[Bernadotte 0]

To use Kerry's own words: How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?

What type of message does it send to the troops and their families. Or especially the families of the US casualties.

I didn't know Kerry said that with regard to Iraq.  In fact, it was even asked of him in the debate:

Quote[/b] ]LEHRER: Speaking of Vietnam, you spoke to Congress in 1971, after you came back from Vietnam, and you said, quote, How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?  Are Americans now dying in Iraq for a mistake?

KERRY: No, and they don't have to, providing we have the leadership that we put -- that I'm offering.  I believe that we have to win this. The president and I have always agreed on that.

Or are you referring to the American troops and families of US casualties suffered during Vietnam?  In which case, what does that have to do with diverting (not distracting!!) troops from Afghanistan to Iraq.

[denoir 0]

Quote[/b] ]

I didn't know Kerry said that with regard to Iraq.  In fact, it was even asked of him in the debate:

Kerry said that starting the war was a "colossal error ín judgement" and the "wrong war at the wrong time".

What could be more clear than that? You think that it is possible to think at the same time that it was a "colossal error ín judgement" and the "wrong war at the wrong time" while thinking that it was not a mistake?

If you agree with me that it is not possible, then I ask you: How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?

And Kerry can't say that Iraq is a pile of shit that he'll inherit if he wins. He must say that the US forces are fighting for a noble cause, or he'll never get elected.

And that's where Bush can push Kerry around. Kerry is in a very difficult position where he must point out that Bush was wrong, but at the same time not alienate the majority of the people that in fact do support the Iraq occupation.

[Bernadotte 0]

You, Kerry and I all agree that the wars in Iraq and Vietnam were mistakes.  But just because they were both ill-conceived, doesn't mean they need to be resolved in the same way - gradual abandonement.

The last US soldier killed in Vietnam died in retreat from a mistake that began when the South Vietnamese were denied direct elections, 18 years earlier.  Ironically, the last US soldier killed in Iraq will likely die in the process of trying to reverse the error of not allowing direct election of Iraq's first sovereign government.

So unless you believe US soldiers should or will eventually retreat in defeat from Iraq, they're actually dying for a remedy rather than a mistake.  Eventhough it is their mistake that they seek to remedy.

Complicated, huh?  

[denoir 0]

Complicated, huh?  

Huh? I believe in a strong, resolute leader that will stay the course

No but seriously, I think it is a core weakness in Kerry's position that he can't go out full strength saying that Iraq was a complete fuck-up that now needs to be fixed. At the time of the was over 80% of the Americans supported the war. Over 50% still think that it was the right thing to do.

And it's the political reality. Not many people are willing to hear bad things about one's country. And this is especially true in the US, a country that is very nationalistic.

You saw Bush in the debate - he often got stuck in a pre-war reality, repeating the same rhetoric that has nothing to do with the current state of things. He went on about how a democratic Iraq would set an example in the region, how Saddam needed to be disarmed etc - complete detachment from reality.

And this was not a miss of him. What do you think the average American wants to associate the American flag with? Freeing the a poor oppressed people from a brutal dictator or Abu Ghraib? Wishful thinking is a very powerful thing.

Bush paints a picture of America that they like to see. And that is what Kerry is up against.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Then I stand corrected. Good luck to ya.

When do you graduate?

In two to three years... depends on the credit hours I'm going to take each semester..

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]depends on the credit hours I going to take each semester..

 

It's important that a soldier is able to communicate so that others can understand him ...

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]It's important that a soldier is able to communicate so that others can understand him

*kicks m21man in the nuts*

I'm..

[denoir 0]

Activist Goes on Anti-Nader Hunger Strike [FOX News]

Quote[/b] ]

SANTA MONICA, Calif.  — A peace activist who once fasted for 63 days to protest movie violence and war toys is launching another hunger strike to persuade Ralph Nader (search) to abandon his presidential bid.

Jerry Rubin, 60, said he plans to consume only liquids from Saturday until Nov. 2 if Nader doesn't take a meeting with him.

"I know Ralph Nader and I don't think he's doing the right thing," Rubin said Saturday. He said the consumer advocate's campaign is dividing the progressive political movement.

Many believe the votes Nader received in Florida in 2000 would have gone to Democratic candidate Al Gore (search) had Nader sat out the election. Gore lost the state — and the national election — to George W. Bush (search) by 537 votes.

Rubin is often confused with now-deceased "Chicago Seven" defendant Jerry Rubin. He legally changed his name to Jerry Peace Activist Rubin to avoid confusion with the 60s radical.

The peace activist is no stranger to hunger strikes: In 1988, he broke a two-month fast with a bite from a giant pizza topped with a pepperoni peace sign that he then left for "Rambo" star Sylvester Stallone.

He again fasted in 1997 to persuade movie production company Dreamworks SKG to abandon plans to relocate its headquarters to wetlands. He collapsed after 26 days, but Dreamworks abandoned the idea, saying it could not reach a satisfactory financial agreement.

[ralphwiggum 6]

.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/03/election.poll/index.html

Quote[/b] ](CNN) -- A majority of Americans believe Sen. John Kerry won the first presidential debate of the 2004 campaign, putting him in a virtual tie with President Bush, according to polls released Saturday by Newsweek and the Los Angeles Times.

Newsweek reported that Thursday's debate in Miami, Florida, had "erased the lead" that Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney have held over Kerry and running mate Sen. John Edwards since the Republican National Convention in New York.

Newsweek's post-convention poll had Bush leading among registered voters 54 percent to 43 percent. Its post-debate poll had 47 percent choosing Kerry-Edwards, and 45 percent for Bush-Cheney. Two percent said they would vote for Ralph Nader and his running mate, Peter Camejo.

The Newsweek survey polled more than 1,000 registered voters and has a margin of error of plus or minus four percentage points.

Newsweek's post-debate poll showed 61 percent of respondents said Kerry won, 19 percent said Bush won and 16 percent said they were undecided.

The poll also found 56 percent said Kerry did better than expected in the debate while 11 percent said the same for Bush.

In the Los Angeles Times poll, 54 percent of 725 respondents surveyed declared Kerry the winner of the debate, compared with 15 percent who said Bush won.

Before the debate, a Los Angeles Times poll showed Kerry with a one percentage point lead over Bush, and after the debate Kerry's lead increased to two points. Those margins are well within the poll's margin of error -- plus or minus four percentage points.

The debate was the first of three match-ups between Kerry and Bush.

Vice President Dick Cheney and his Democratic challenger, John Edwards, will debate in Cleveland, Ohio, on Tuesday. (Full story)

On Friday, the second presidential debate will take place in St. Louis, Missouri, followed by the final debate on October 13 in Tempe, Arizona.

[theavonlady 2]

.Newsweek reported that Thursday's debate in Miami, Florida, had "erased the lead" that Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney have held over Kerry and running mate Sen. John Edwards since the Republican National Convention in New York.

Newsweek's post-convention poll had Bush leading among registered voters 54 percent to 43 percent. Its post-debate poll had 47 percent choosing Kerry-Edwards, and 45 percent for Bush-Cheney. Two percent said they would vote for Ralph Nader and his running mate, Peter Camejo.

Spot the devious statisticians:

Quote[/b] ]NEWSWEEK POLL: Campaign 2004

September 11, 2004

    391  Republicans (plus or minus 6)

    300  Democrats (plus or minus 7)

    270  Independents (plus or minus 7)

Quote[/b] ]NEWSWEEK POLL: First Presidential Debate

October 2, 2004

   345 Republicans (plus or minus 6)

   364 Democrats (plus or minus 6)

   278 Independents (plus or minus 7)

[ralphwiggum 6]

.Newsweek reported that Thursday's debate in Miami, Florida, had "erased the lead" that Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney have held over Kerry and running mate Sen. John Edwards since the Republican National Convention in New York.

Newsweek's post-convention poll had Bush leading among registered voters 54 percent to 43 percent. Its post-debate poll had 47 percent choosing Kerry-Edwards, and 45 percent for Bush-Cheney. Two percent said they would vote for Ralph Nader and his running mate, Peter Camejo.

Spot the devious statisticians:

Quote[/b] ]NEWSWEEK POLL: Campaign 2004

September 11, 2004

    391  Republicans (plus or minus 6)

    300  Democrats (plus or minus 7)

    270  Independents (plus or minus 7)

Quote[/b] ]NEWSWEEK POLL: First Presidential Debate

October 2, 2004

   345 Republicans (plus or minus 6)

   364 Democrats (plus or minus 6)

   278 Independents (plus or minus 7)

do you know how long i waited for someone to post this kind of argument?

here's statistics 101:

it's a freaking random sample. it means that poll takers did not just decide to choose certain number of each party members. after the survey was done, they compiled each response and it turned out to be like that. your argument seems to be that the poll takers were actively undermining the GOP members. just who i nright mind would think so?

when polls are taken, to eliminate all the bias, they randomly choose people. they do not ask for party affiliation first and then decided to call that person or not.

funny you bring this point up. on otherside, the Bush lead is nothing but GOP members answering more phones?

[walker 0]

Hi all

John F. Kerry has done so well off the Thursday Debate that many on the fence republicans are saying the will vote for John F. Kerry as the Next President of the United States,

Quote[/b] ]ALLENTOWN, Pa. -- It's hard to say if it was that smirk, or his repeated insistence that he would never change course in Iraq, but by the end of the first presidential debate President Bush had come awfully close to losing the vote of Republican Thomas C. Racosky.

"The president appears to me to have a pretty big ego, and he's letting it get in the way of what's best for the American people," the goateed Racosky, a retired builder, said after watching Thursday night's presidential debate. "Before tonight, I really wouldn't have known which way I was leaning. If I had to vote now, I guess it'd be for Kerry."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1637-2004Oct1.html

while die hard rebublicans were so underwhelmed by the texan's performance on thursday that they are considering voting none of the above.

Quote[/b] ]They worried about abandoning a president caught in a tough spot -- even if it is a war of his own creation.

"The war was a mistake, but I want to see a person solve the problem they created," said Alex Cole, a Republican who at 49 was involuntarily retired after being forced out at Lucent Technologies. "Bush has my vote, but this is the best election I've ever seen for voting 'none of the above.' "

Unable to cope with how badly he did the texan has resorted to lieing about how he did in some half assed fantasist way.

Quote[/b] ]New Kerry ad says Bush lied about debate

WASHINGTON (AP) — John Kerry on Saturday looked to frame the next presidential debate in a speech criticizing President Bush's economic record, but also tried to get in a final word about their last face-off by declaring himself the winner and Bush a liar. "George Bush lost the debate," an announcer says in a television ad Kerry's campaign unveiled Saturday. "Now he's lying about it."

The Democratic presidential candidate's accusation came two days after his first debate with Bush, when he told moderator Jim Lehrer that he avoids saying that the president is lying to the American people.

"I've never, ever used the harshest word, as you did just then," Kerry said. "And I try not to, but I'll nevertheless tell you that I think he has not been candid with the American people."

http://www.usatoday.com/news....d_x.htm

Latest polls put John F.Kerry in the lead

The affect of the debate has also made it self clear in the latest polls where John F. Kerry has gained 5% and moved in to the lead.

Quote[/b] ] In the first poll taken since the Thursday night debate, Kerry was running even with Bush after having trailed him in the same survey last month. The Newsweek poll showed Kerry had the support of 47% and Bush 45%, with independent candidate Ralph Nader at 2%.

Kind Regards Walker

[theavonlady 2]

your argument seems to be that the poll takers were actively undermining the GOP members.

No. My point was that this is comparing apples to oranges. And if the polltakers hired by NewsWeek didn't realize the obvious, they should look for a job elsewhere - maybe on 60 Mniutes.

[ralphwiggum 6]

your argument seems to be that the poll takers were actively undermining the GOP members.

No. My point was that this is comparing apples to oranges. And if the polltakers hired by NewsWeek didn't realize the obvious, they should look for a job elsewhere - maybe on 60 Mniutes.

you of all people should know that polls have margin of error, and that is due to taking random samples. random samples capture the true population in approximate manner.

within margin, it's hard to see if there are difference. so far Bush supporters were claming victory over having more percentage albeit being within margin of error. now the table has turned and not in their favor, claming it doesn't matter is a good example of flip-flopping.