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ralphwiggum

Us presidential election 2004

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What would Kerry do?

Supply them.

Yup, just like Clinton's arrangement with N Korea.

That deal was working fine until Bush failed to follow through and listed N Korea with the Axis of Evil states.

So, what's Bush's Iran plan?

What would Avon have done in Iran?   rock.gif

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Why is Israel allowed to secretly develope nukes with silent support from the West while Iran is not ?

Even South Korea tested for nuclear weapons. What makes them so different ?

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Why is Israel allowed to secretly develope nukes with silent support from the West while Iran is not ?

Even South Korea tested for nuclear weapons. What makes them so different ?

Why don't you search the Internet for the first time Iran boasted how they would use their missiles offensively against Israel and then maybe you'll understand.

Better yet, try living here and then you'll feel it in your bones.

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What would Avon have done in Iran?   rock.gif

Nothing.

I would have bombed the English, French and German uranium suppliers. tounge_o.gifghostface.gif

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Quote[/b] ]One of the findings of the 9/11 Commission concerns Iran and its alleged support for Al Qaeda.

1.  The 9/11 Commission report actually states that a captured Al-Qaida leader (Khallad) confessed that Iran tried to offer support in 2000, but was refused because "bin Laden did not want to alienate his supporters in Saudi Arabia."  In other words, that so-called "alleged support" was actually only an alleged offer and the actual alleged support was from Saudi Arabia.

2.  The report also states in one section that, according to intelligence sources, Iran made a deal not to stamp passports of Al Qaida members crossing its border with Afghanistan.  I wonder if that intelligence source was working for Douglas Feith.  In any case, the report later states that Al Qaida preferred to transit through Iran because of its policy of not stamping Saudi passports at all.  ...A big difference.  

Avon, I fully understand Israel's concern over the Iran threat, but shouldn't the USA be more concerned with what the 9/11 Commission report says about Saudi support?

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Avon, I fully understand Israel's concern over the Iran threat, but shouldn't the USA be more concerned with what the 9/11 Commission report says about Saudi support?

I don't know where to begin in my neck of the woods. crazy_o.gif

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Avon, I fully understand Israel's concern over the Iran threat, but shouldn't the USA be more concerned with what the 9/11 Commission report says about Saudi support?

I don't know where to begin in my neck of the woods. crazy_o.gif

As someone who also holds US citizenship, are you planning to vote in the US presidential elections from your neck of the woods?

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Avon, I fully understand Israel's concern over the Iran threat, but shouldn't the USA be more concerned with what the 9/11 Commission report says about Saudi support?

I don't know where to begin in my neck of the woods. crazy_o.gif

As someone who also holds US citizenship, are you planning to vote in the US presidential elections from your neck of the woods?

And my daughters, too.

There's been a very well organized voter registration effort here in Jerusalem over the last few week.

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As someone who also holds US citizenship, are you planning to vote in the US presidential elections from your neck of the woods?

And my daughters, too.

There's been a very well organized voter registration effort here in Jerusalem over the last few week.

I just wanted to add:

Thank you, Walker, for inspiring me to register and get out and vote! unclesam.gifbiggrin_o.gif

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Hi Avon

Glad too hear you and so many other Israelis are voting in the US elections. smile_o.gif

Kind Regards Walker

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Hi Avon

Glad too hear you and so many other Israelis are voting in the US elections. smile_o.gif

Kind Regards Walker

Recent JPost article (must subscribe - free - for full article):

Quote[/b] ]If you can, vote in the US elections

By MICHAEL M. ROSEN

Earlier this month, a startling and widely syndicated article appeared on the AP wire, cleverly titled "Israel, the ultimate swing state in US election."

According to the article, the Republican and Democratic parties have been trolling for votes among an estimated 185,000 American expatriates living in Israel.

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But I may assume that the majority of Israeli-americans is rather republican!   smile_o.gif

I have no idea what you base that assumption on.

We have all type of US expats here. Religious, secular, right, left.

If you find a statistical report about this, I'd be curious. There was a poll taken among Israelis in general - not expats in particular - about a month ago, with Bush easily prefered over Kerry.

If you're referring to religious versus non-religious, then you might be right. Though, all of us, for example, specified UNAFFILIATED on the registration's party affiliation field.

I don't tow a party's line.

For more information on the Jewish Religious voter crowd, see these articles:

Obvious and Orthodox at the convention

Black Hat Trick

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But I may assume that the majority of Israeli-americans is rather republican!   smile_o.gif

Certainly not the ones I know.  unclesam.gif

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Hey bernadotte,

How did you come up with only hundreds dead in nicaragua and El salvador? I always thought it was a lot higher, and looking around I havent seen much that suggests the death toll wasnt considerably higher.

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But I may assume that the majority of Israeli-americans is rather republican!   smile_o.gif

Certainly not the ones I know.  unclesam.gif

See what I mean, Albert! smile_o.gif

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A large percentage of jewish americans living in the US are rather wealthy. I thought corporate America votes republican, or not?

Furthermore is a large percentage of the israeli dissapointment for the european lack of support in Iraq, and therefore often sympathises with the kind of cold republican view of old and new europe.

Besides the great percentage of young israelis I think the old ones are rather anoyed by France, Germany a.s.o. There were lots of diplomatic quarrels going on in the last weeks.

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A large percentage of jewish americans living in the US are rather wealthy.

Can you quantify that? rock.gif

Quote[/b] ]I thought corporate America votes republican, or not?

Plenty that doesn't. Again, needs to be quantified.

Quote[/b] ]Furthermore is a large percentage of the israeli dissapointment for the european lack of support in Iraq, and therefore often sympathises with the kind of cold republican view of old and new europe.

That opinion has been in place way before Iraq and is almost not at all tied with Iraq in particular.

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Interesting to read I think

Campaign Finance - Bush's Jewish Bloc

Peter H. Stone

Every couple of weeks since last fall, three elite fundraisers for President Bush have been making a pilgrimage from their homes across the country to the Bush-Cheney campaign headquarters in Arlington, Va. Sheldon Kamins of Maryland, Michael Lebovitz of Tennessee, and Fred Zeidman of Texas have been meeting at the headquarters to plot strategy, talk fundraising tactics, and check in with Bush campaign manager Ken Mehlman. Like some 150 other "Rangers," the three men have each raised more than $200,000 for the president's re-election campaign. But the three are also on a mission that sets them apart from many other Rangers.

Kamins, Lebovitz, and Zeidman are wealthy, influential Jews who have been working the phones and hitting up other well-heeled Jews for donations to Bush's '04 campaign. So far, they've cobbled together an impressive fundraising network of dozens of people who have been successful in real estate, finance, and other businesses in California, Florida, Missouri, and New York, among other places.

The mission goes beyond the mere raising of money. The Bush campaign is gearing up for a significant voter-outreach effort in the Jewish community -- a project that Lebovitz will help spearhead -- to try to persuade large numbers of American Jews to abandon their Democratic loyalties and cast their votes on Election Day for a president who has been an unwavering supporter of Israel.

"This has been the greatest president that the state of Israel has ever had," says Zeidman, a Houston venture capitalist whom Bush tapped to chair the United States Holocaust Memorial Council. "The campaign is making every effort to facilitate our effort in the Jewish community."

The work has been in full swing since last year. On October 24, for example, at the Waldorf-Astoria in New York City, Vice President Cheney hosted a kosher luncheon that drew some 450 guests and raised about $650,000. Sander Gerber, who is Jewish and was the only business executive to address the gathering at the Waldorf, is a 36-year-old Wall Street investment banker whose political odyssey symbolizes the Bush campaign's successful and aggressive outreach to disparate parts of the Jewish community. On Election Night 2000, Gerber was among the Democratic faithful at Al Gore's campaign headquarters in Nashville, Tenn. Three years later, he has undergone a complete political conversion and is now a Bush Ranger.

More recently, Bush was the headliner at a December 5 fundraiser in Baltimore that netted close to $1 million for his campaign, including a sizable chunk from Jewish donors. Kamins, a real estate developer, was a key organizer for the event. And on January 14, Cheney jetted to Los Angeles for a couple of money-raising events, one of them a kosher meal at the home of Brad Cohen, a real estate developer from Bel Air. The event raised around $500,000.

To Gerber, the Bush campaign's success in tapping Jews from both parties centers mostly on one thing: the president's Middle East policy. Increasingly, donors and voters, Gerber says, "recognize that the president's vision of the Middle East, beginning with Iraq, is the only solution for global stabilization."

The Bush campaign plans to amplify that message to many other Jewish donors and voters before November 2, in the expectation that the president will make deep inroads into what's long been an overwhelmingly Democratic constituency. In 2000, Bush received an estimated 19 percent of the Jewish vote -- well below the record 39 percent that Ronald Reagan got in 1980. But many fundraisers and campaign officials are bullish about 2004 and are eyeing such crucial battleground states as Florida, Missouri, Ohio, and Pennsylvania, all of which have significant Jewish populations.

"I think there's an opportunity, based on the president's leadership, to significantly expand our level of support" in the Jewish community, Mehlman told National Journal. "Good policies are good politics."

Little wonder that Mehlman, who is Jewish, and other top campaign officials have been using the more intimate setting of small meetings to woo Jewish donors and leaders. On several occasions, such as a November gathering in Baltimore, Mehlman and other campaign officials have skillfully used "pre-sells" -- the hosting of potential Jewish contributors in the weeks running up to a big fundraising event that features Bush.

Similarly, to spur more donations, Kamins, Lebovitz, and Zeidman have been turning to friends and to board members of such key Jewish organizations as the American Israel Public Affairs Committee and the Republican Jewish Coalition. Bush's staunch support of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, the president's aggressive approach to the war on terrorism, and the administration's pre-emptive war in Iraq are cited as policies that appeal to many Jews.

"You're never going to get the [Franklin] Roosevelt Jew, but you may get the moderates," says Ned Siegel of Florida, who has raised more than $500,000 for Bush-Cheney '04. "Iraq was an eye-opener from a Jewish perspective. It's taken a potential danger to Israel off the table." Siegel says that the campaign is looking forward to "going into the Jewish community to explain [bush's] policies and views."

Adds Jack Rosen, president of the American Jewish Congress: "The Bush campaign is making a big, big play for the Jewish vote. They're clearly reaching out. I think there's a solid base of support for Bush among traditionally Democratic Jewish donors." Rosen, who has long been a Democrat, gave $100,000 in soft money to the Republican National Committee in 2002 to show his appreciation for the administration's Middle East policies.

But other Democrats and some outside analysts doubt that Bush will do much better at the polls than he did in 2000, and they insist that the Bush campaign is mostly focused on squeezing a historically Democratic funding source.

"I think the real story is the stubborn attachment of the Jewish voter to the Democrats," says Ira Forman, the executive director of the National Jewish Democratic Council, a grassroots group that also includes many well-known donors to the Democratic Party. To Forman, the Bush campaign strategy is mainly "an elite strategy and a money strategy. I think this is more about cutting off Democratic funding." Still, Forman adds, Bush "should do better than in 2000 -- but that's hardly surprising, given the paltry showing in that year."

Larry Sabato, a professor of politics at the University of Virginia, says that any money that goes to the Bush campaign from Jewish Americans is a "twofer," because "it's not just money being put into the Republicans' war chest, it's also money being taken out of the Democrats' war chest."

However, when it comes to voting, Sabato said, "you can change the American electorate marginally from election to election." If Bush can increase his vote in the Jewish community by 10 percent, says Sabato, "he's done well. Jewish Americans are liberal on almost all social issues and most social-welfare issues. That pushes them toward the Democratic Party. At the same time, they're now being cross-pressured by Bush's very pro-Israel foreign policy. That's peeling away a certain number of usually Democratic votes and funding."

Shifting Perceptions?

Historically, Jewish voters cast about 4 percent of the ballots in a presidential election. But their financial clout is much heftier. According to Democratic fundraising sources, Jewish donors kicked in as much as 50 percent of the money that the Democratic National Committee received from individual donors in the 1998 and 2000 election cycles. Numbers like that have clearly been on the mind of GOP strategists, including Karl Rove, the president's top political adviser.

A major campaign goal for Rove and other Republican strategists is to try to shift the perception that many Jews have of Bush. After all, Gore had very good links to Jewish leaders, and he further cemented his ties by selecting Sen. Joe Lieberman, D-Conn., an Orthodox Jew, to be his running mate in 2000. By contrast, Bush that year was an unknown quantity to many American Jews, and Bush's father, whose ties with the Jewish community were tenuous at best, got only 11 percent of the Jewish vote in 1992, when he lost to Bill Clinton. (See chart, next page.)

But since taking office -- and especially since September 11 -- the younger Bush has endeared himself to many politically conservative and some moderate Jews. Many Jewish leaders, including some Democrats, have been gratified by Bush's refusal to meet with PLO leader Yasser Arafat. They are also pleased with his repeated focus on ending Palestinian terrorism as the price for a lasting peace settlement and an independent Palestinian state. Further, some of the leading champions of the administration's Iraq war policy are high-profile Jewish neoconservatives such as Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle of the Defense Policy Board, a Pentagon advisory panel.

"President Bush has stood up against most countries of the world in support of Israel and is deserving of the support of the Jewish community," says former U.S. Ambassador to Switzerland Joe Gildenhorn, a member of the executive committee of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. Gildenhorn played a leading fundraising role last June at the Bush campaign's kickoff event in Washington, which brought in close to $4 million.

To be sure, some liberal Jewish groups have faulted the Bush administration for not pursuing the peace process more forcefully. "Although President Bush has quite rightly taken the Palestinians to task for their security failures, he's given the Israelis a free pass on their obligations," says Lewis Roth, the assistant executive director of Americans for Peace Now, which supports the peace movement in Israel. Roth points to a recent American Jewish Committee poll on Jewish attitudes that found that 54 percent of the 1,000 people interviewed opposed the Bush administration's handling of the war on terrorism, while only 41 percent supported the administration's anti-terrorism policies.

Still, some Middle East experts aren't surprised that the Bush campaign's outreach for funds and backing from Jews seems to be going well. Jewish backers of Bush "like the fact that he's not criticized Sharon and that he's identified our fight against terrorism with Sharon's fight," says Edward Walker Jr., president of the Middle East Institute and a former U.S. ambassador to Israel and Egypt. "How could you be more in favor of Israel than the president has been?"

Wooing Heavy Hitters

The president's embrace of Sharon and solidarity with the Israeli government is helping to fuel the Bush campaign's aggressive courtship of wealthy Jewish executives, community leaders, and voters.

Zeidman says that the campaign has been unstinting in its efforts, noting the effectiveness of "pre-sells" with potential Jewish donors. These intimate get-togethers with top campaign officials such as Mehlman or finance chiefs Mercer Reynolds and Jack Oliver "give our leaders an opportunity to discuss issues of particular importance to the Jewish community," says Zeidman. Mehlman adds that the outreach to Jewish donors is similar to the small meetings held with other constituencies, such as evangelicals or physicians. "This is a campaign that tries, in whatever it does, to be very methodical," Mehlman says.

A similar approach seems to have paid off with the Republican Jewish Coalition's board, of which Zeidman is a member. The coalition boasts 5,000 members nationwide, and its 40-member board is packed with wealthy business executives and politicos who have chaired several major fundraisers for the Bush campaign. The coalition's board includes at least six Bush Rangers. According to fundraising sources, Sam Fox, the chairman of the RJC, and coalition board members Ned Siegel of Florida and Elliott Broidy of Los Angeles have each raised close to $500,000 for Bush-Cheney '04.

Lebovitz and Zeidman also sit on the executive committee of AIPAC, the powerful pro-Israel lobbying group. Although AIPAC has lots of Democrats on its 300-member executive committee, Zeidman believes that the group has quietly "encouraged a lot of members to show their support for the president." Indeed, several AIPAC executive committee or board members -- including Robert H. Asher of Chicago, former Sen. Rudy Boschwitz, R-Minn., Edward C. Levy Jr. of Michigan, and Mayer Mitchell of Alabama, plus Gerber and Lebovitz -- have each raised more than $100,000 for Bush.

"I believe this president will attract more Jewish votes than any previous Republican candidate because of his strong stance on Israel," says Asher, a former AIPAC president. Rosen of the American Jewish Congress adds: "The Jewish vote could have a significant impact because of the concentration of the Jewish community in certain key states."

Lobbyist Jack Abramoff, who is Jewish and a "Pioneer" fundraiser (having brought in more than $100,000 for Bush), says that Jewish votes for Bush "could be the difference" in Florida, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. Moreover, he says, the administration's pro-Israel policies could yield a side benefit with another key GOP voting bloc: "I think the evangelical supporters of the president are delighted by his strong support of Israel."

To garner additional Jewish votes, the campaign is wooing Rosen and other heavy hitters. "I think there will be some effort to get prominent Jewish leaders to endorse Bush," predicts a source close to the campaign. The campaign is also expected to turn for help to such allies as Jay Lefkowitz, a partner at Kirkland & Ellis, who until late last year was a top domestic policy adviser in the White House. Lefkowitz argues that Jewish voters "in their 20s, 30s, and 40s tend to be more economically conservative, less tied to trade unions, and, unlike their parents, don't have a personal connection to the eras of [John] Kennedy and [Franklin] Roosevelt."

Sources say that other prominent Jews the campaign may tap include Sen. Norm Coleman, R-Minn., Rep. Eric Cantor, R-Va., and former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer. All three are involved with the Republican Jewish Coalition. "My goal is to be as helpful as I can be and as helpful as the campaign would like me to be," Fleischer says. On January 9, Bush scored a potentially key endorsement when former New York Mayor Ed Koch came out for the president in an op-ed piece in Forward, a Jewish newspaper.

Ratcheting up the support for Bush in the Jewish community and other voting blocs has long been a key part of Rove's road map to a second-term victory. "Rove intends to win overall by gaining a few percent at the margins of most major electoral groups," argues Sabato, citing Jews, evangelicals, and Catholics as key voting blocs that could make a difference in several swing states.

On the other hand, Bush's decidedly pro-Israel policies and his approach to the war on terrorism are sure to hurt him among Arab-Americans. In 2000, Bush won about 45 percent of the Arab-American vote, but falling support among this constituency could hurt him in Florida, Michigan, and elsewhere. "I don't think the president will make as much hay among Jewish voters as he'll lose support among Arab-Americans," says Jim Zogby, president of the Arab American Institute.

Democrats Take Notice

Regardless of how Bush is faring among Arab-Americans, pro-Bush Jews are aggressively pushing forward. "Within the Jewish community, we look at the opportunity in 2004 as probably the greatest opportunity" since the Reagan era, says Bruce Prince, who was one of several co-chairs for the Waldorf-Astoria luncheon in October. "Practically speaking, this president has put his money where his mouth is when it comes to Israel." Adds Rosen: "Because of the president's record on Israel, it will be hard for the Democratic candidate just to set out general principles."

Some Democrats say that to prevent Jewish allies from defecting, the Democratic nominee will have to be very specific on Israel and on issues such as negotiating with Arafat. Other Democrats contend that the nominee will be able to counter the Bush administration's pro-Israel positions with his own stances on Israel and terrorism, plus his more-liberal track records on domestic issues such as women's rights and civil liberties.

"There are a whole bunch of administration policies which most American Jews react negatively to," says Steve Grossman, a top adviser to former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean. Grossman, a former AIPAC president and former DNC chairman, points to a new poll from the American Jewish Committee showing that even with nine Democrats vying for the nomination, Bush gets 31 percent of the Jewish vote in a matchup with Dean. "That's the baseline from which [the Democrats] go up, not down," Grossman says.

The Dean campaign, however, isn't taking any chances. On January 12 and 13, in New York City, Grossman held a series of meetings with Jewish leaders in which he sought to reassure them that as president, Dean would be a very strong ally of Israel. Dean caused concern among some Jews with his comments last year about the need for the United States to be more "evenhanded" in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Similarly, Forman of the National Jewish Democratic Council predicts that while the Bush campaign may return to the level of the 1970s and '80s in Jewish support for a GOP presidential nominee, "that's hardly a revolutionary shift."

Still, 31 percent support for Bush may be just good enough to make a difference in the right states, and that is what the president's Rangers, Pioneers, and other fundraisers are shooting for in 2004.

In late December, dozens of Jewish fundraisers and community leaders came to town for the annual Hanukkah party at the White House. Inside the crowded room was Zeidman, who had brought along one of his sons for a picture with the president. Such get-togethers, and other events with Rove and Mehlman, according to Zeidman, boost the morale of Bush's Jewish supporters and should give others in the community increased confidence in the administration. "It was a beautiful event," Zeidman says.

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How did you come up with only hundreds dead in nicaragua and El salvador? I always thought it was a lot higher, and looking around I havent seen much that suggests the death toll wasnt considerably higher.

Certainly thousands died, however:

- How many of those on both sides of the revolutions died at the hands of the contras?

- How many of the contras victims died during the Reagan years?

- How many of those Reagan year contra victims died as a direct result of American military aid?

- How many of those victims were innocent civilians?

I'd be very interested to see any estimate that you might find which puts that total at more than 1000.

Meanwhile, we all know that the Iraqi total is much much higher.

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Certainly thousands died, however:

- How many of those on both sides of the revolutions died at the hands of the contras?

- How many of the contras victims died during the Reagan years?

- How many of those Reagan year contra victims died as a direct result of American military aid?

- How many of those victims were innocent civilians?

I'd be very interested to see any estimate that you might find which puts that total at more than 1000.

Meanwhile, we all know that the Iraqi total is much much higher.

Quote[/b] ]The 1980 election of Ronald Reagan as President of the United States changed American policy in El Salvador dramatically. The new U.S. administration worried about Communist expansion in Central America and viewed the El Salvador military government as a potential barrier against Communism. The Reagan administration substantially increased both military and economic aid to El Salvador.

The civil war raged on in El Salvador, fueled by U.S. aid to the Salvadoran military. The government harshly repressed dissent, and at least 70,000 people lost their lives in killings and bombing raids waged against civilians throughout the countryside. The country's infrastructure had crumbled, and the nation appeared to be no closer to its goals of peace, prosperity and social justice than when the process began. Then, in 1989, the murder of six Jesuit priests, their housekeeper and her daughter at the University of Central America shocked the international community into action.

source: http://www.pbs.org/itvs/enemiesofwar/elsalvador2.html

So that's the figure on El Salvador alone. By using indirect means to uphold dictatorship it is hard to say what is a direct death toll for US aid, but I'm sure the dictatorship couldn't have held so long.

Grenada death toll was low perhaps compared to other conflicts, nevertheless US under Reagan commited into unilateral act of 'restoring order' to Grenada and despite comdemnation of the entire UN general assembly. There were even rumors about mass graves being there, none were found.

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30,000 was the highest figure i saw for nicaragua, and thats the highest number for entire war. Considering trade unionists, civil rights activists, teachers, lawyers, and other "subversives" were all fair game i'd say the number of civilian deaths was probably pretty high.

Its hard to say if theres a bias one way or the other, but right-wing, or government writing on the subject tends to ignore civilian deaths all together. - I also found a speech by John MaCain calling the contras "freedom fighters"

Some people say u.s aid lengtened the conflicts as well. Even if the left wing governments were flawed it dosent justify putting in right wing regimes that are even worse. Literacy rates and health care in these countries also declined as an indirect result of u.s intervention.

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Even if the left wing governments were flawed it dosent justify putting in right wing regimes that are even worse.

I agree completely.

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Quote[/b] ]Michael Moore is updating his Fahrenheit 9/11, adding previously deleted scenes, excerpts from testimony before the 9/11 Commission, and other material -- and will reissue it theatrically on Sept. 24, published reports said today (Friday). The reissue is apparently intended to promote the Oct. 5 DVD release, which will also include the additional scenes. Meanwhile, Simon & Schuster, the publisher, said Thursday that the New York Times had refused permission for Moore to include in his upcoming book The Official Fahrenheit 9/11 Reader an article in which the newspaper reviewed its shortcomings in reporting on the events leading up to the war in Iraq. A spokeswoman for the newspaper later said that it is "determined not to associate ourselves with any work in film or print that attacks either candidate."

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http://www.drudgereport.com/cbsd2.htm

Quote[/b] ]

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX FRI SEPT 10, 2004 12:01:25 ET XXXXX

RATHER DIGS IN: THE DOCUMENTS ARE AUTHENTIC

CBSNEWS anchor and 60 MINUTES correspondent Dan Rather publicly defended his reporting Friday morning after questions were raised about the authenticity of newly unearthed memos aired on CBS which asserted that George W. Bush ignored a direct order from a superior officer in the Texas Air National Guard.

CNN TRANSCRIPT:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN RATHER, CBS NEWS ANCHOR: I know that this story is true. I believe that the witnesses and the documents are authentic. We wouldn't have gone to air if they would not have been. There isn't going to be -- there's no -- what you're saying apology?

QUESTION: Apology or any kind of retraction or...

RATHER: Not even discussed, nor should it be. I want to make clear to you, I want to make clear to you if I have not made clear to you, that this story is true, and that more important questions than how we got the story, which is where those who don't like the story like to put the emphasis, the more important question is what are the answers to the questions raised in the story, which I just gave you earlier.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CBS NEWS executives on Thursday launched an internal investigation into whether its premiere news program 60 MINUTES aired fabricated documents relating to Bush's National Guard service, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned. "The reputation and integrity of the entire news division is at stake, if we are in error, it will be corrected," a top CBS source explained late Thursday.

Developing...

Even the family of that dead guy who supposedly typed those memos are doubting them. Also, a lot of experts are doubting. Dems are going to f'ed if this whole crap turned out to be falsed... wink_o.gif

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