The Iraq thread 3

[JP226 0]

"The US is undermanned by at least a factor ten, so they need the locals." Thankyou General Denoir. I know you probably don't know who General Schoomaker is. He's the new US Army's Cheif of Staff. I know the guy on a personnal basis, went to school with his daughter here in florida a few years back and i still see them from time to time. Anyway i have a primary source for my info. I asked him the question, are we undermanned? He said no, it's not the number in the theater it's the capability. US troops have more than the capability, fire power what have you to get the job done in Iraq. So everyone who has their little BBC or CNN or ABC or whatever new's reports by some reporter who has nothing to do with the military or some anonymous general or some pissed off general from the pentagon, can take them and shove it. I have the information of people who are actually their from time to time, as with my cousin, a Maj in the Rangers, who is their right now. He knows what the hell is going on, works intelligence. So stop with this nbonsense, "5 soldiers died today America is losing" crap and quit listening to this liberal propaganda.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]There are interior pics of the dammage from this round to the m1 in those pictures but they are difficult to find on the internet.

Here you go:

NBC hose behind the Gunner’s Seat and bent the basket shield

It passed through the Gunner’s Seat Back at a very oblique angle.

It crossed under the breech and hit the safety side.

And here is the exit side, please notice the residue of what appears to be copper or bronze. This can be seen in several places.

Through the Circuit Breaker Panel.

And into the hull again. Where it dug a hole one and a half to two inches deep.

The projectile as I already said is the RPG PG7VR .

When an RPG PG7VR strikes an armored vehicle, the explosive charge in the warhead forms a blowtorch which burns a hole through the vehicle's skin and leaves those residue we can see on the pics.

[EiZei 0]

He said no, it's not the number in the theater it's the capability. US troops have more than the capability, fire power what have you to get the job done in Iraq. So everyone who has their little BBC or CNN or ABC or whatever new's reports by some reporter who has nothing to do with the military or some anonymous general or some pissed off general from the pentagon, can take them and shove it. I have the information of people who are actually their from time to time, as with my cousin, a Maj in the Rangers, who is their right now. He knows what the hell is going on, works intelligence. So stop with this nbonsense, "5 soldiers died today America is losing" crap and quit listening to this liberal propaganda.

Umm, did you ask this after the "major combat operations" were over?

[JP226 0]

yes, I asked him last weekend

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]So everyone who has their little BBC or CNN or ABC or whatever new's reports by some reporter who has nothing to do with the military or some anonymous general or some pissed off general from the pentagon, can take them and shove it.

Oh another first source man. Pls show us credible source rather than telling : " I know this guy and that guy..."

You might have missed it but Denoir had a military career.

I am actively serving the UN core force and we have military analyzes not based on reporters but experience and actual military facts. The US forces in Iraq are digging in. They only go out for capturing saddam supporters with all the cover they have. Rebuilding Iraq is not on their list anymore. They spend most of the time with defending themselves.

And if you have a direct wire to Iraq pls tell us why so many US troops commit suicide atm. You have to know. You are the expert.

Quote[/b] ]I asked him the question, are we undermanned?

Certainly not, that must be the reason why you need 200.000

locals to serve with your troops.

[denoir 0]

He said no, it's not the number in the theater it's the capability.

Well, incompetent people tend to make incompetent calls.

Quote[/b] ]

US troops have more than the capability, fire power what have you to get the job done in Iraq. So everyone who has their little BBC or CNN or ABC or whatever new's reports by some reporter who has nothing to do with the military or some anonymous general or some pissed off general from the pentagon, can take them and shove it. I have the information of people who are actually their from time to time, as with my cousin, a Maj in the Rangers, who is their right now. He knows what the hell is going on, works intelligence. So stop with this nbonsense, "5 soldiers died today America is losing" crap and quit listening to this liberal propaganda.

Yeah, it was liberal propaganda that killed 50 Iraqis yesterday and 50 Iraqis today.

The US military is completely undermanned in Iraq. There are about 130,000 troops there. Half of those are maintenence i.e non-combat units. More than half of the remaining are useless for peace keeping i.e airforce, artillery, heavy armour etc

On the ground about 20,000 soldiers are available for regular peace keeping duties. For comparison new york city has 39,000 cops. Iraq has a population of 25 million while nyc is about 8 million. There are not nearly enough peace keeping personel on the ground as evidenced by the total chaos in Iraq.

Edit: For comparison when I was down in Kosovo in 2001 there were about 40,000 peace keepers on the ground. And Kosovo has a population of about 2 million, not to mention that it was in a far better shape than Iraq is. There were more than 20 times more peace keepers/capita than there are in Iraq today.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]peace keeping

No suitable expression on what is going on in Iraq as there is no peace achieved.

[JP226 0]

Once again General Denoir speaks of his vast knowledge of Military affairs. He obviously knows more about military capability than a US Army Cheif of Staff who has nearly given his entire life to the military.

[denoir 0]

Once again General Denoir speaks of his vast knowledge of Military affairs. He obviously knows more about military capability than a US Army Cheif of Staff who has nearly given his entire life to the military.

Not general but lieutenant Denoir, who unlike the dear general has served as a peace keeper. And that would be assuming that I believe your story, which I don't.

Instead of lame personal attacks, try arguing with the numbers. I'll quote myself again, in case you missed it:

Quote[/b] ]

There are about 130,000 troops there. Half of those are maintenence i.e non-combat units. More than half of the remaining are useless for peace keeping i.e airforce, artillery, heavy armour etc

On the ground about 20,000 soldiers are available for regular peace keeping duties. For comparison new york city has 39,000 cops. Iraq has a population of 25 million while nyc is about 8 million. There are not nearly enough peace keeping personel on the ground as evidenced by the total chaos in Iraq.

For comparison when I was down in Kosovo in 2001 there were about 40,000 peace keepers on the ground. And Kosovo has a population of about 2 million, not to mention that it was in a far better shape than Iraq is. There were more than 20 times more peace keepers/capita than there are in Iraq today.

[JP226 0]

Well with all this knowledge you ahould be a general. The real general was the supreme commander of all American special forces throughout the world. He, like my cousin is now, was an Ranger. He was stationed at MacDill AFB in Tampa FL before he retired. Then he was put up for CoS of the US Army. Anyway the point is he's pretty knowledgeable about Peace keeping I'm sure. But then again the US military serves it's purpose unlike European armies, they fight wars. So you may be right he may not be as knowledgeable as you are in Peace Keeping but more swo in the war fighting department.

[Badgerboy 0]

Well with all this knowledge you ahould be a general. The real general was the supreme commander of all American special forces throughout the world. He, like my cousin is now, was an Ranger. He was stationed at MacDill AFB in Tampa FL before he retired. Then he was put up for CoS of the US Army. Anyway the point is he's pretty knowledgeable about Peace keeping I'm sure. But then again the US military serves it's purpose unlike European armies, they fight wars. So you may be right he may not be as knowledgeable as you are in Peace Keeping but more swo in the war fighting department.

So you admit that a state of war still exists in Iraq? Thats contary to what the US military say.

[Balschoiw 0]

Hey JP226:

It came pretty handy to you that all the "details" you wanted to sell here are available at

Schoomakers bio

Can you pls tell us what´s the name of the daughter you talk about, her age and the school she attended.

[walker 0]

Hi JP226

Your on a hiding to no where on this one.

Some facts:

Denoir is a real life soldier.

He has been involved at a very high level in NATO command.

I am guessing you have little or no Millitary experience where as I know his is quite interesting. Including service in the equivalent of the US navy SEALs.

He has also no small knowledge of the balkans having served there.

For your own sake please check up who you attack as you will as this time only end up with egg on your face.

Kind Regards Walker

[JP226 0]

heh yes i can, what was he in? GSG 9, SBS huh? Infact I didn't know this but did you know the US army is the only military in the world that put's physical shape as a priority? I had no idea. ANyway Back on topic, I'm sure a COS is more knowledgeable than a leutinant no matter what branch or nation of the side kick army to America your in, I mean NATO. Did I say that outloud?

[denoir 0]

Well with all this knowledge you ahould be a general. The real general was the supreme commander of all American special forces throughout the world. He, like my cousin is now, was an Ranger. He was stationed at MacDill AFB in Tampa FL before he retired. Then he was put up for CoS of the US Army. Anyway the point is he's pretty knowledgeable about Peace keeping I'm sure. But then again the US military serves it's purpose unlike European armies, they fight wars. So you may be right he may not be as knowledgeable as you are in Peace Keeping but more swo in the war fighting department.

Instead of a pointless pissing contest, could you please answer my question:

How are 20,000 soldiers expected to enforce peace in a country of 24 million when a city like NY requires 40,000 cops to maintain order in a three times smaller population. Why did KFOR have 40,000 peace keepers to protect a population of 2 million? And I can tell you there was plenty of work to go around!

And finally, if you are saying that they are not undermanned in Iraq, then you are saying that the US soldiers are incompetent. Face it, Iraq is not exactly one of the more peaceful places on earth. So which is it? Are there too few troops in place or are the ones in place incompetent?

[JP226 0]

looks like someone backed down, ha, anyway yea i guess i could get you an answer to your question. But gimmie a few days and i'll get schoo to ask her dad and i could get a fairly direct answer from him. How's that?

[walker 0]

Hi JP226

And how long have you worked for Al Qaeda?

Seriously pal if you are a Neo Conservative you do your cause no good. You dont just shoot yourself in the foot with your rants your hacking it off with several blows from a blunt axe but keep it up your noddy hat with bells on it and matching footware and bladder are in the post.

Honnest mate your funnier than Charlie Chaplin.    

Kind Regards and with much respect for your insouciance Walker

[denoir 0]

heh yes i can, what was he in? GSG 9, SBS huh?

KJ/Adyk (costal ranger and later combat diver). In Sweden, which is not part of NATO. Later I worked under COMKFOR in Kosovo.

But never mind that, just use your brain and answer my arguments. "My friend knows more than your friend" type of arguments leads nowhere. Think for yourself

Quote[/b] ]Infact I didn't know this but did you know the US army is the only military in the world that put's physical shape as a priority?

LOL. Ok, that's a can of worms I do not intend to open here. If you wish to hear my opinion, use the forum serach engine. I've posted both stories and pictures form excercises where among others US Army and Marine units were involved. But as I said, I don't want to bring it up here.

[WhoCares 0]

What makes you think that he would tell you something different then the official statements? I would be quite surprised if he told you more then he is allowed to tell his wife...

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]schoo

Is that her name ?

Answer my questions pls. You´re trying to fool us. That´s obviouse.

and

Quote[/b] ]GSG 9

is a german anti - terror police unit.

Little you know.

Now back to Iraq. JP doesn´t seem to be very contributing.

[denoir 0]

looks like someone backed down, ha, anyway yea i guess i could get you an answer to your question. But gimmie a few days and i'll get schoo to ask her dad and i could get a fairly direct answer from him. How's that?

No, instead of giving unsubstantiated information from a source who if real would be breaking the law if he divulged information to you beyond what is reported in the media, please use your brain. Look at the arguments, think a bit and then come with a counter-argument.

First of all, I don't know you and therefor if you say "I know the Pope" or "I know the Army Chief of Staff", I can't just take your word for it. If Balschoiw had said something to that effect, I would have believed him as I've known him now, for two years. You on the other hand, I don't know. So until you either provide some proof or overtime prove yourself to be trustworthy, I can't just take your word for it.

Second, if you do know the CoS, it still doesn't mean that he would tell you what he thinks or believes.

Third, if he was involved in the war planning, then of course he won't readily say that it was a big failure.

You'll learn one thing in this thread and it's that you must be able to back your statements with some form of external source material that your counterparts can look through. The rest is based on your ability to argue your case.

So, to conclude, what you need to do to be taken seriously in this case is:

1) Bring the Army CoS to this forum and let everybody interested question him.

2) Provide a case by logical arguments why we should trust the CoS and give an interpretation of his satements.

I assume that it's not a very practical possibility. So, instead use your own brain and the facts you can find from various sources and make a case. That's the only way anybody is going to take you seriously.

[JP226 0]

first of all denoir, this is not a my friend told your friend, it's a CoS told me and so i told you. But since you don't want a primary source to answer your "argument," typical liberal who doesn't want the facts, I'll try to answer it. First of all New York is an exception of police force. My city has about 2 to 3 million people and we hae about 4000 cops, if you count the whole bay area. Atlanta has about 400 cops on duty at one time so ultimately they have around 2000 cops. AS for 20,000 soldiers to patrol a country of 24 million, yes, but the US army can still call on it's total of 120 or 30 or however amny thousands of soldiers if the situation gets hairy enough. I dont know who they do it in the formidiable nation of sweden, but everyone goes through boot camp in the US army, hence everyone can fight. As for posting 40,000 soldiers by the KFOR i can expalin that, inefficient. They don't have the per capita capability like the US does so there fore they need more, simple as that. PS you backed down

[JP226 0]

I don't mean to brag or anything, but i know quite a few Generals, CoS's SEAL 6 menbers and whathave you. That's what i get for running in the right circles.

[Acecombat 0]

I don't mean to brag or anything, but i know quite a few Generals, CoS's SEAL 6 menbers and whathave you. That's what i get for running in the right circles.

You must be getting dis orientated then with running around in circles , have a break and get a clear perspective

[JP226 0]

what have we got here? A comedian. Man that is some funny stuff, you should do some stand up