The Iraq thread 3

[Balschoiw 0]

The US already try to get control over the media in Iraq. They censor newspapers, have their own "Al Hurrah !" TV station and we all know about all the funny military press briefings where they most likely killed Saddam with a single bomb and such  

The arab world as a whole seems to be deeply disturbed.

They will demand justice to the guys who committed the crimes. Justice the arab way I´m afraid.

Edit :

Hehe funny typo, "The arab world as a hole"

Sorry for any inconveniances  

[MLF 0]

When/If the British Troops pics are proved fake, i doubt the ME/Muslim Newspapers will probally print anything about it and how they were not real.

[denoir 0]

When/If the British Troops pics are proved fake, i doubt the ME/Muslim Newspapers will probally print anything about it and how they were not real.

It seems like a big "if" right now. But regardless if the British photos are fake or not, the damage has already been done. They don't trust western media any more than we trust theirs. So they'll say that "occpation forces claim that the pictures are fake" which will in the mind of the people be discarded as propaganda.

Hardly surprising though. They have very little reason to believe anything the coalition says.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]When/If the British Troops pics are proved fake

I don´t think Tony the Blair, knight of Londonberry would send his investigators out only for some fake pics, don´t you think ?

The paper already released an interview and they´ve said to post follow-ups. Well, there´s money to be made.

[billybob2002 0]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4894001/

Report

^^^^

Here is a link to the U.S Army report about the abuse.

[walker 0]

From the above report.

Quote[/b] ]a.    (U) SPC Jeremy Sivits, 372nd MP Company - Suspect

b.    (U) SPC Sabrina Harman, 372nd MP Company – Suspect

c.    (U) SGT Javal S. Davis, 372nd MP Company - Suspect

c.    (U) PFC Lynndie R. England, 372nd MP Company - Suspect

d.    (U) Adel Nakhla, Civilian Translator, Titan Corp., Assigned to the 205th MI Brigade- Suspect

These are the ones who admited to their crimes.

There are many more who pleaded the 5th; those who torture others are often cowards.

The question remains though how high does the corruption go?

It apears that members of the US intelligence departments were and maybe still are involved in instigating this torture.

Several witnesses have stated that these intelligence departments gave the orders. The question is who gave those intelligence departments the order to instigate torture.

The obvious implication is that this goes higher has to be investigated.

Who is the head of the torture department of US intelligence?

Walker

[MLF 0]

Quote[/b] ]When/If the British Troops pics are proved fake

I don´t think Tony the Blair, knight of Londonberry would send his investigators out only for some fake pics, don´t you think ?

The paper already released an interview and they´ve said to post follow-ups. Well, there´s money to be made.

You must know that if an allergation is made in the Military whether it be fake or true they are investigated at FACE VALUE until proven otherwise, your hatred of those who went to war is blurring your judgement, if you have seen the pictures they look extremely dodgy, and it aint Tony's men who are investigating its the RMP, so plz actually get your facts right.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Who gave these disgusting perverts their orders to instigate the torture of Iraqi detainees?

Quote[/b] ]LTC (P) Jerry L. Phillabaum, Commander, 320th MP Battalion

LTC Steven L. Jordan, Former Director, Joint Interrogation and Debriefing Center and Liaison Officer to 205th Military Intelligence Brigade

MAJ David W. DiNenna, Sr., S-3, 320th MP Battalion

CPT Donald J. Reese, Commander, 372nd MP Company

1LT Lewis C. Raeder, Platoon Leader, 372nd MP Company

Mr. Steven Stephanowicz, Contract US Civilian Interrogator, CACI, 205th Military Intelligence Brigade

That Mr. John Israel,Contract US Civilian Interpreter, CACI, 205th Military Intelligence Brigade

Who were the people that employed these men? Where did their government funding come from? Who was their oversight?

Quote[/b] ]13. (U) I find that there is sufficient credible information to warrant an Inquiry UP Procedure 15, AR 381-10, US Army Intelligence Activities, be conducted to determine the extent of culpability of MI personnel, assigned to the 205th MI Brigade and the Joint Interrogation and Debriefing Center (JIDC) at Abu Ghraib (BCCF). Specifically, I suspect that COL Thomas M. Pappas, LTC Steve L. Jordan, Mr. Steven Stephanowicz, and Mr. John Israel were either directly or indirectly responsible for the abuses at Abu Ghraib (BCCF) and strongly recommend immediate disciplinary action as described in the preceding paragraphs as well as the initiation of a Procedure 15 Inquiry to determine the full extent of their culpability

walker

[walker 0]

Hi all

These three men deserve medals

Quote[/b] ]a. (U) Master-at-Arms First Class William J. Kimbro, US Navy Dog Handler, knew his duties and refused to participate in improper interrogations despite significant pressure from the MI personnel at Abu Ghraib.

b. (U) SPC Joseph M. Darby, 372nd MP Company discovered evidence of abuse and turned it over to military law enforcement.

c. (U) 1LT David O. Sutton, 229th MP Company, took immediate action and stopped an abuse, then reported the incident to the chain of command.

Kind Regards Walker

[theavonlady 2]

Ooooh. All this mystery and melodrama is giving me goosebumps.

[walker 0]

Hi all

What White House budget payed for CACI International Inc. and Titan Corp to provide the perverts that instigated the torture of Iraqi detainees?

Which White House officials were involved?

Kind Regards Walker

[noundo 0]

Where was all this outrage from Iraqi's/Arabs when the Iraqi's killed and mutilated U.S. civilian's and then dragged their corpses through town to be hung from a bridge?

[denoir 0]

Try 50 or so pages ago. Furthermore, are you saying that a bloodthirsty mob should set the standards for the US military?

And third, I think the US got more than its revenge in Fallujah by killing 600+ civilians.

[walker 0]

Hi all

As we said previously using mercinaries in Iraq was sure to lead to problems. Already a US Millitary contractor has been found to be involved in trafficing women for prostitution in Bosnia. This resulted in new laws to allow their directors to be prosecuted.

The policy of using vast armies of contractors to replace the US millitary in Iraq as The Vietnam War Dodger George Bush Jnr. and the rest of his cronies try to do the war on the cheap and nasty.

The question remains who are these shady companies and where do their vast profits at the US tax payers expense go?

Kind Regards Walker

[SPQR 0]

US Pentagon must feel relieved with the US Administration's refusal to sign for Lahaye convention about war crimes and crimes against Humanity...

Couldn't imagine a better plan to fight naughty terrorist kids 'n zi block..

Bring 'em Democracy

For sure it will be better than Europe and it's past action of spreading "civilization" around the world ...  

[walker 0]

Where was all this outrage when the Iraqi's killed and mutilated U.S. civilian's and then dragged their corpses through town to be hung from a bridge?

Hi noundo

My outrage at that is clearly on record at the time; I quote myself from: Mar. 31 2004,15:15

Quote[/b] ]Hi all

Trully disgusting. The Country is not secure we need to send in at least five times as many troops. The situation means the chance of an ellection in two and a half months is very remote.

A sad day for US troops at least 5 dead but it could be as many as 13.

There were also attacks in the UK controled sector.

The country is clearly not secure.

Shocked but not suprised walker

As you can see if you look at the posts at that time we all regard the torturers of Iraqi Detainees and American mercinaries with the same disgust.

I would like to see your anger at war crimes commited by both sides quoted noundo.

On an aside I remind you those men were mercinaries employed by a civilian sub contractor to the pentagon so your ascribing them civilian status is somewhat of a misnomer.

It is of course sad that the USMC has been miss used by TBA in a stupid assault on Falujha which TBA had already lost to the terorists in their mistaken bunker mentality. Already Sadams Bathist former generals rule in Falujha put in control by a retreating TBA.

Sadly it means that the deaths of the the US mercinaries will never be properly investigated.

An ignominious defeat and retreat ala Vietnam looks more and more on the cards.

As I have said for nearly 9 months the US must commit at least four times as many troops. Bush must bring in the draft even though it will cost him the election.

The US and UK must put right the mess we made. It is the only honourable thing to do.

Kind Regards Walker

[noundo 0]

I should have made my statement clearer.

I was not intending to be critical of the posters to this forum, my previous post was directed at the reactions of the Iraqi and/or Arab world.

Sorry

[bucket man 2]

Where was all this outrage when the Iraqi's killed and mutilated U.S. civilian's and then dragged their corpses through town to be hung from a bridge?

Well actually they were mercenaries and I am not sure but does Geneva convention even apply to mercs in terms of torture or such?

They went to Iraq to secure convoys, fight the militia and to do other similar jobs and got paid for it. They knew the risks. Ofcourse mutilation was wrong and unnecessary but it is not comparable to torture of live POWs.

[MLF 0]

Where was all this outrage when the Iraqi's killed and mutilated U.S. civilian's and then dragged their corpses through town to be hung from a bridge?

Well actually they were mercenaries and I am not sure but does Geneva convention even apply to mercs in terms of torture or such?

They went to Iraq to secure convoys, fight the militia and to do other similar jobs and got paid for it. They knew the risks. Ofcourse mutilation was wrong and unnecessary but it is not comparable to torture of live POWs.

they were civilian contractors, im not sure what there job was i thinking it was truck drivin or sumim.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Hi all

What White House budget payed for CACI International Inc. and Titan Corp to provide the perverts that instigated the torture of Iraqi detainees?

Which White House officials were involved?

     Department of Defense selects the contractors not the White House.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Who gave these disgusting perverts their orders to instigate the torture of Iraqi detainees?

Quote[/b] ]

OTHER FINDINGS/OBSERVATIONS

1.  (U) Due to the nature and scope of this investigation, I acquired the assistance of Col (Dr.) Henry Nelson, a USAF Psychiatrist, to analyze the investigation materials from a psychological perspective. He determined that there was evidence that the horrific abuses suffered by the detainees at Abu Ghraib (BCCF) were wanton acts of select soldiers in an unsupervised and dangerous setting.There was a complex interplay of many psychological factors and command insufficiencies.  A more detailed analysis is contained in ANNEX 1 of this investigation

Quote[/b] ]

(U) Several US Army Soldiers have committed egregious acts and grave breaches of international law at Abu Ghraib/BCCF and Camp Bucca, Iraq.  Furthermore, key senior leaders in both the 800th MP Brigade and the 205th MI Brigade failed to comply with established regulations, policies, and command directives in preventing detainee abuses at Abu Ghraib (BCCF) and at Camp Bucca during the period August 2003 to February 2004.

Quote[/b] ]

2.  (U) During the course of this investigation I conducted a lengthy interview with BG Karpinski that lasted over four hours, and is included verbatim in the investigation Annexes.  BG Karpinski was extremely emotional during much of her testimony. What I found particularly disturbing in her testimony was her complete unwillingness to either understand or accept that many of the problems inherent in the 800th MP Brigade were caused or exacerbated by poor leadership and the refusal of her command to both establish and enforce basic standards and principles among its Soldiers.  (ANNEX 45)

3.  (U) Throughout the investigation, we observed many individual Soldiers and some subordinate units under the 800th MP Brigade that overcame significant obstacles, persevered in extremely poor conditions, and upheld the Army Values.  We discovered numerous examples of Soldiers and Sailors taking the initiative in the absence of leadership and accomplishing their assigned tasks.  

[MLF 0]

Quote[/b] ]Hi all

What White House budget payed for CACI International Inc. and Titan Corp to provide the perverts that instigated the torture of Iraqi detainees?

Which White House officials were involved?

     Department of Defense selects the contractors not the White House.

and don't the contractors select who provides secuirity for there convoy's

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]and don't the contractors select who provides secuirity for there convoy's

I do not know.

Late for class..............    

[walker 0]

they were civilian contractors, im not sure what there job was i thinking it was truck drivin or sumim.

Hi MLF

Your statement is factualy incorrect

They were Mercinaries employed by Blackwater Security Consulting.

They were all armed.

They were all ex US millitary; Blackwater Security Consulting only employs such.

http://www.blackwatersecurity.com/ A search of their site reveals their services as

.

Quote[/b] ]SECURITY VULNERABILITY ASSESSMENTS AND RISK ANALYSIS

TRAINING

...for security and protective operations...

MOBILE SECURITY TEAMS

PROTECTIVE SOLUTIONS

Several if not all had dog tags on so that their remains could be identified in the event their remains were disfigured by a bomb or some such.

A further examination of the identities and previous jobs of the men killed leads me to state my belief that they were a Mobile Security team.

There is a rumour (not proven) that they were part of Paul Bremmers security detail. Blackwater provides his body guards.

Please post factualy MLF let us leave fantasy in the Sun newspaper and other such tabloids.

Kind Regards Walker

[bucket man 2]

Where was all this outrage when the Iraqi's killed and mutilated U.S. civilian's and then dragged their corpses through town to be hung from a bridge?

Well actually they were mercenaries and I am not sure but does Geneva convention even apply to mercs in terms of torture or such?

They went to Iraq to secure convoys, fight the militia and to do other similar jobs and got paid for it. They knew the risks. Ofcourse mutilation was wrong and unnecessary but it is not comparable to torture of live POWs.

they were civilian contractors, im not sure what there job was i thinking it was truck drivin or sumim.

Well I am not 100% sure but werent atleast some of them carrying a sidearm? If so then they kinda were mercs.

They got paid for a job that involves shooting and securing the interests of their employer by violence if necessary. Apparently they all had military experience some maybe served in past wars.

That pretty much makes them mercenaries and atleast some of the rules of war defined in Geneva convention dont apply to mercenaries.

But like I said I am not sure about that Geneva convention thing so please dont burn me at the stakes if it turns out that I am wrong.