Specific point regarding roads

[Prospero 1]

This is one thing I've been thinking about for a while. When roads are created in real life, they are often (in fact almost always) lower than the surrounding landscape, simply because earth is removed to make the road. They are not just "laid onto" the top of a terrain mesh. Therefore the edge of the road (the curb or cutting) can often offer cover from fire.

It would be great to see this sort of feature integrated into the landscape creation tool (if there is one) for OFP2. How is another matter entirely.

I suppose one might think a road = a bit like a trench. It is.

Prospero

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Umm, where I live roads are almost always higher than the surrounding area, and they usually look like a slight mound of tarmac on top of the ground (they aren't - they need gravel etc under the ground to support them - but thats what they look like)

But ditches by the side of the road do offer good cover from fire

[Friedchiken 0]

Depressions near roads would be a great idea in a modern setting. There have been many times where I took advantage of Kolgugev's NE tip of the island where me and my AI took cover from fire by running down the hills.

[PainDealer 0]

I've never seen a road lower than the surrounding areas.

[Friedchiken 0]

sure, like in nevada (can't remember) right?

but there's also the ditch to stop the movement of rollovers

[Bullz_eye_on_my_back 0]

I've taken classes on pavement/road design and have done work on several roadway projects. Ussually the road is higher than the surrounding areas, but possibly you're talking about the median in the center of a separated 2 lane highway...or the curb and gutter on the side of urban streets. The medians are basically trenches as they collect the water and are removed by culverts under the roadway. One thing to note is that one certain terrain you will have trenches (drainage ditches) along the edges of the road for water removal. Some are deep enough to give some cover. It all depends on the surrounding terrain

I would love to see a way to have sewer stystems under the streets though. Guerilla warfare would become multi-dimensional then- maybe it will be possible if they allow tunnel systems in the new ofp

[Denwad 0]

Well, the curb is maybe what, five inches? That's little or no cover right there.

[hellfish6 7]

Well, the curb is maybe what, five inches? That's little or no cover right there.

Ever inch matters. Ask any infantryman.

[Major Gripe 0]

Well, the curb is maybe what, five inches? That's little or no cover right there.

When people are under fire they can make themselves about an inch tall!!

[Friedchiken 0]

Yeah! especially your mouse avatar! some African breeds can squeeeeeze their rib cages to go under doors!

Seriously, 5 inches does seem like alot when you consider that I always jump for the tiniest depression in Flashpoint. Keeps me alive *most* of the time

Seriously!, I want more terrain abnormalities in the sequel no matter how tiny!

Anyways, road details would be a nice touch

[hellfish6 7]

There are tons of terrain abnormalities right now. Just turn your terrain detail on "High" or "Very High".

[acidcrash 0]

its a shame we cant really make use of the increased terrain detail in MP

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

setterraingrid "whatever"

older machines can't handle it in MP though so it's not used often.

[Friedchiken 0]

There are tons of terrain abnormalities right now. Just turn your terrain detail on "High" or "Very High".

Well, I guess you're right but I guess my computer would choke to death.

Maybe the next engine could make this easier not likely but worth a shot

Anyways, the fact that the roads are elevated makes a difference for aircraft and vehicles.

Remember those driving lessons where they discuss how to carefully drive back on to the road after going off the pavement? Realistic physics would make this scene hectic.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

yeah higher terrain detail does make it harder to go fast with vehicles.

[Friedchiken 0]

Yeah, I just hope that they resolve the "weight" issue.

Most vehicles now seem as light a paper and very springy. There should be damage penalties for going too fast off hills with vehicles that can't take that tension. Or at least the feeling you are driving a really heavy object as big as a car

[Tamme 0]

I have to keep my terrain detail 'low' and it's boring. The terrain's all flat and there's just no... nothing. It's BORING. I need some hardware so I can increase the settings. Gimme some money will 'ya.

[Prospero 1]

I've taken classes on pavement/road design and have done work on several roadway projects.  Ussually the road is higher than the surrounding areas, but possibly you're talking about the median in the center of a separated 2 lane highway...or the curb and gutter on the side of urban streets.  The medians are basically trenches as they collect the water and are removed by culverts under the roadway.  One thing to note is that one certain terrain you will have trenches (drainage ditches) along the edges of the road for water removal. Some are deep enough to give some cover. It all depends on the surrounding terrain

I would love to see a way to have sewer stystems under the streets though.  Guerilla warfare would become multi-dimensional then- maybe it will be possible if they allow tunnel systems in the new ofp

Call me stupid, but when we create roads we don't ship in soil to level everything up. We dig, and we dig till the surface upon which we lay the road can be smooth and level. If we need to go through a hill we dig it out and create a cutting.

Errrr... maybe it's just my part of the world. I can honestly say that I don't know of a road in my area (which is rural) where the tarmac is higher than the surrounding fields.

Roads are like trenches. Just shallow ones.

Trivial point... those Colin Mcrae rally games.

Prospero

EDIT: Yes, we are talking rural, like most of OFP. OK?

EDIT: Negative camber is to be avoided. Capiche?

EDIT: For anyone who doesn't believe it, I suggest you download a high-res laser scanned terrain mesh of the "real world" to see it for yourself. There are some such files available on the net.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

sorry but in my part of the world that just isn't true.

They aren't significantly higher than the surrounding area - usually just level with it - but here roads are not trenches in the ground.

There is cover at a road - the ditches by the side of it - but the roads are NOT lower than the rest of the landscape.

[Dubble0zero 0]

I think you are talking about diffrent roads, but I must agree with Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX, most bigger roads are slightly higher then the surrounding area, usually a couple of decimeters...

And if we think logical on it, the roads should be a bit higher than the surrounding area, and not compleetley flat ether, otherwise the water would stay on the roads when it's raining, and that's not good...

[Bullz_eye_on_my_back 0]

Well it all depends on the terrain... they try and design the grade or slope of the road through an area where they can ballance the "cut" and "fill" areas the best. Which means in some spots of the terrain they will dig into the ground and use that to fill in the lower depressions or create earth embankments for bridges (depending on the strength of the soil) or build the road higher up off the terrain. Once that part is finished they will bring in crushed rock as its base/subbase and then the overlay of either asphalt or concrete. That ussually brings it a bit above the terrain.

The desiding factor for whether the terrain is higher than the road depends strictly on the terrain and its function.

Railroads will have the most occurance of the terrain being higher than the track, unless it is on flat land. The reason for this is because trains are harder to get up hills and mountains so they tend to cut as far as they can into the hill to lower the grade or slope of the climb. On flat land they want to try and keep as much water away from the track so it will not soften the ground causing the track to sink into the soil- so they build the track up off of the terrain around it. Close to the same reasoning for vehicular roads. They try and build it where the least amount of water will wash onto the roadway. It can happen where they cut into the terrain, but it will be accompanied with gradual slopes to the road, drainage ditches or culverts running along the side of them.

It might be the rule of thumb here to build it slightly above the terrain most of the time.

[Raw 0]

Since I happen to know a bit about road construction, I'll add my 2 cents.

In most cases, the pavement of the road is slightly above the surrounding terrain. How much mostly depends on the type of ground and the need for groundwork (for instance, if you have real winters, you need to do more groundwork). It also depends on the hight differences of the surrounding terrain, since you want a road that is straight and level if possible (for traffic safety reasons and to make it easier for trucks).

Different countris may also have different height of the road surface for another reason. Most countries remove some of the old asphalt before putting on a new layer, keeping the old level. In countries where asphalt is cheap (mostly oil producing countries), this is only done on (for weight reasons) or under (for clearance reasons) bridges, in other cases they just add a new layer, raising the road surface.

At the sides of the road, there are almost always ditches. This is to get water off the road. The pavement is usually sloping slightly outwards for the same reasons. Roads without ditches are usually only seen in desert terrain, and often not even there. Ditches also has another purpose. They are supposed to stop a vehicle going out of control from bouncing back onto the road and possibly into oncoming traffic. For this reason, the current trend in road design is to make fairly deep and wide ditches, with a slope of about 30 degrees.

Since this wide and deep ditches can look a bit scary (and ugly), it is popular to plant some mix of local grass and flowers to make them look nicer.

In most civilized countries, the pavement has painted road markings. As a bare minimum, this means a center line. In most cases, side lines are also painted for safer driving in low visibility. Some countries also place raised studs, often with reflectors, to enhance the lines. These make a distinct rumbling noise when you drive over them. They are never used in countries where snow is common, as the snow ploughs destroy them.

In countries where snow is common, there are usually poles, sticks or posts every 50-100 m along the edge of the road. These are there to increase visibility when the road markings are covered by snow and ice, but also to make it possible for the snow ploughs to see where the road is.

Roadsigns are used much more than in OFP. Roadsigns are sometimes accompanied by painted markings on the pavement, especially around intersections or pedestrian crossings.

Another thing that is missing from OFP is that in most sharp curves and curves near steep slopes guardrails are used. These are designed to catch and stop a car as gently as possible. There may also be guardrails in the middle of the road for large roads.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Some countries also place raised studs, often with reflectors, to enhance the lines. These make a distinct rumbling noise when you drive over them. They are never used in countries where snow is common, as the snow ploughs destroy them.

In countries where snow is common, there are usually poles, sticks or posts every 50-100 m along the edge of the road. These are there to increase visibility when the road markings are covered by snow and ice, but also to make it possible for the snow ploughs to see where the road is.

Agree apart from this bit:

We have quite a lot of snow but still have reflectors on our roads. Even highland (mountain) passes which have the snow sticks all the way along them have reflectors up the middle; the snow ploughs just drive up one lane and don't scrape the middle line

[Friedchiken 0]

I second that.  In colorado we still have the noise maker ground thing.  Sure wakes you up when you go into the "wrong lane."

I almost did that 3 times (actually, I just had two wheels scraping the ground )

EDIT:: though those are used more on long highways or roads and the interstate.  Not for local traffic.

[Acro 0]

Yeah, It would be nice if OFP^2 landscape had some kind of ditches or trenches on side of the road.

Here in Finland roads are generally separated from the surrounding environment by some ditches.