John f.kennedy

[PAPABEAR_1985 0]

have realy lee h oswald killed thies man or the story

was  some thing else

if any body have some answers......  Profile

[Scorpio 0]

IIRC, the US government will release a report on the real case in 2038.

[PAPABEAR_1985 0]

could it be tru or another water gate

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

There was a good documentary on this on discovery about a week ago. Look around, it should come on again.

It used all the films available of the event (there were 25 cameras rolling that day) to create 3d models of the entire scene and animate it. (plus lots of other things)

Conclusion: Yes, Oswald acted alone. The film JFK was a dramatisation- its not fact. For instance, the magic bullet thing which seems so convincing - the seats in the car aren't arranged like that - Kennedy was about a 20cm higher than the senator and further to the right.

[PAPABEAR_1985 0]

But whay aftre 46 years and that filmes you talking about have been edited....other thing the killing of LHO in middile of 100s

of Goverment agent.......

they dont want to talke so thay Erase him ...no body know what they hide ofer 46 years...many thinges afcourse

[ralphwiggum 6]

ABC had a little documentary about the shooting with Peter Jennings this year, and they also reached conclusion that Oswald did it alone.

The problem with conspiracy mentality is that people cannot accept that an unknown person like Oswald can harm a great person like a president.

[Col. Kurtz 0]

Funny this topic comes up; I just finished a 16-page essay on the assassination for school.

Both sides of the fence have very convincing arguments but I tend to side with the idea of conspiracy, although a lot of conspiracy theories tend to a bit dodgy.

When it comes down to Oswald, the real question is: Would have a reason to shoot the President?

One thing that is taken for granted by both conspirators and non-conspirators however is that the film JFK was not very truthful and relies too much on the Garrison story.

[Winters 1]

If you watch the JFK movie at the end of the credits they state that some years ago (i cant recall which year off-hand) the US Gov't did acknowledge that there was some evidence to support a conspiracy but not to the level that the movie would lead you to believe.

This is a subject of much debate even after all this time and i am afraid it will never be solved, some people will just never want to believe that a leader of a nation can be killed by a single man. I think Jackie said it best a while ago when she asked everyone to just move on.

[Baron von Beer 0]

Also don't forget. Many dismiss the idea of conspiracy, for the belief that it must somehow involve the government. A conspiracy, by definition, means that more than one person acted in conjunction to achieve their goal. With that, I do believe the idea of a conspiracy, as did a government commision after the Warren Commision. I think some of the government cover-up was to hide the abysmal security actions that were taken (or rather not taken.) Them hiding these facts doesn't have to mean they were involved, merely that no one wanted to loose their jobs, or face prosecution, for not following their SOP.

[denoir 0]

One thing that is taken for granted by both conspirators and non-conspirators however is that the film JFK was not very truthful and relies too much on the Garrison story.

The funny thing is that I always thought that JFK was something like 90% dramatization and not fact. I was very very surprised when I checked sites that attacked it - the inconsistencies and errors are really minor. It's much more of a documentary than I thought.

Here's a listing of errors in the movie

If you look at the errors, most are minor details or really a question of interpretation.

Personally, I believe that there was a conspiracy behind the assasination of Kennedy and that it was a coup d'état. Why? There is so much pointing in that direction - the disputes over various evidence are fairly irrelevant in the big picture. You have Oswald defecting to the Soviet union and returning without facing any charges. You have Oswald a mediocre shooter at best using an antiquated rifle hitting a moving target at such a distance. You have Jack Ruby killing Oswald. You have LBJ reversing JFK's vietnam policies the day after JFK was killed. You have the Warren Report obfuscating and censoring testimonies. etc etc

There is so much crap going on, that even if 90% of it would be false, it would still be more than enough to suspect foul play.

[Winters 1]

and the debates continue......

[ralphwiggum 6]

You have Oswald defecting to the Soviet union and returning without facing any charges. You have Oswald a mediocre shooter at best using an antiquated rifle hitting a moving target at such a distance. You have Jack Ruby killing Oswald. You have LBJ reversing JFK's vietnam policies the day after JFK was killed. You have the Warren Report obfuscating and censoring testimonies. etc etc

Oswald was not a mediocre shooter. According to his USMC records, he managed to get 19/20 on 200 meter fast shooting. the shooting from the book depository to motorcade was 86 or so meters. The rifle that was used did have a scope.

One of KGB defector's comment from ABC report said that KGB would not have sent him back to assasiante US political personnel cause it was too obvious.

furthermore, what many people do not know is that before KEnnedy assasination, LHO was going to kill another political figure. he left notes to his wife(whom he married in Russia) of what to do if he is captured or killed.

Jack Ruby was a well known self-import guy. he was owner of a strip club, and was not a big part in mafia. in fact, he came to Dallas to make money.

second, if he was to get LHO, there would be a lot better way than killing him in front of 20+ camera crews.

The warren commission was under a lot of pressure, but not by the gov't but by people's desire to deny that a lone gunman could have done this. it took 10 months, pages of report. if someone wants to cover something up,it would have been closed earlier than that.

http://abcnews.go.com/section....-1.html

http://abcnews.go.com/section....-1.html

ABC - a mob hit posibility? | another poerspective

ABC - the accoustic evidence

Robert Oswald comments on his brother, Lee

http://abcnews.go.com/section....-1.html

[Col. Kurtz 0]

If you watch the JFK movie at the end of the credits they state that some years ago (i cant recall which year off-hand) the US Gov't did acknowledge that there was some evidence to support a conspiracy but not to the level that the movie would lead you to believe.

That was the House Select Committe on Assassinations.

It ran from between 1976 and 1979.

It had three directors (first two resigned) and the last director was only interested in brining out a politically correct report and keeping things within budget. The HSCA pretty much came to the same conclusion as the Warren Commission, Oswald killed the President from the 6th floor of the Texas Book Depository, and the 'magic bullet' was truthful.

It major veriation was stating that one shot was fired from in front of the President's Limo from the Grassy Knoll.

This was based on audio evidence.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

If you watch the JFK movie at the end of the credits they state that some years ago (i cant recall which year off-hand) the US Gov't did acknowledge that there was some evidence to support a conspiracy but not to the level that the movie would lead you to believe.

That was the House Select Committe on Assassinations.

It ran from between 1976 and 1979.

It had three directors (first two resigned) and the last director was only interested in brining out a politically correct report and keeping things within budget. The HSCA pretty much came to the same conclusion as the Warren Commission, Oswald killed the President from the 6th floor of the Texas Book Depository, and the 'magic bullet' was truthful.

It major veriation was stating that one shot was fired from in  front of the President's Limo from the Grassy Knoll.

This was based on audio evidence.

The audio evidence being that a police motorcyclist left his radio mic on and the three shots were heard from it. Then they calculated where they thought he was and thus where the sounds should have came from.

Unfortunately, they did their calculations wrongly for where he was. He's on 2 different films several hundred metres from where they said he was = sounds all came from book depository.

Also agree with Ralph that Oswald was actually a good shot.

Disagree that it was in any way possible to edit all the movies (all owned by different people) in any way that would not be immediately obvious nowadays.

[Guest]

I know who really killed him, but I'm not allowed to say

[Apollo 0]

the fact's:

List of Witnesses to the Assassination

The following are some important witnesses to the assassination:

Known:

Lee Bowers - Railroad worker in a tower in the parking area behind the grassy knoll claims to have seen a two men near the fence before the motorcade arrived. Died in a car accident near Midlothian, Texas.

Howard Brennan

Governor John Connally and his wife Nellie

Jim Featherston - Dallas Star reporter

Jean Hill - "The lady in red" who was standing across from the grassy knoll

Sam Holland - Railroad worker standing on the triple overpass in front of the motorcade with two of his work-mates claimed to see smoke from the grassy knoll

Mary Moorman - Jean Hill's friend who took a famous polaroid facing the grassy knoll

Jacqueline Kennedy

Abraham Zapruder - Filmed the shooting

Anonymous or Disputed:

The "Babushka lady" - Beverly Oliver claimed to be this witness standing near Moorman and to have made a good camera recording of the assassination but claimed she lost the camera and its film.

The "Umbrella Man" - Louis Steven Witt claimed to be this witness and gave testimony at the Warren Commission that he was there to heckle the President, that he was not involved in any conspiracy and was in the wrong place at the wrong time

The "Nowhere Man" - supposed image of witness on the grassy knoll; more than a decade later [man], now deceased, claimed to be this witness and gave an interview with the History Channel claiming to have been threatened by a CIA agent behind the fence at the grassy knoll and apparently by Badge Man after the shooting.

The "Badge Man" - supposed image of a an officer shooting a rifle from behind the fence at the grassy knoll

The "Railroad"? Man - supposed image of a man in a white shirt and a hardhat standing to the left of Badge Man

The "Blackdog Man" - image of a figure at the memorial near the knoll many believe is a young black couple who threw a coke bottle on the ground and ran off after the shots were fired

Almost 90 percent of the witnesses claimed to hear only 3 shots or less. Only a few witnesses claimed to hear more than 3 shots, the rest were unsure.

Investigations into the assassination

Many people dispute the claim that Oswald was the assassin (or sole assassin), or believe that he was part of a conspiracy. The first official investigation of the matter, the Warren Commission, was created by President Lyndon B. Johnson on November 29, 1963 to investigate the assassination. It was headed by Earl Warren, Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court. It eventually reported its conclusion that Oswald assassinated Kennedy and, further, that he acted alone. The theory that Oswald acted alone has been informally dubbed the lone gunman theory. The proceedings of the commission were secret, and some of its files have yet to be released to the public, further fuelling speculation about the assassination.

A later official investigation by the House Select Committee on Assassinations, during the late 1970s, concluded that President Kennedy had been assassinated as a result of a conspiracy. This conclusion was largely based on an analysis of a Dictabelt audio recording which was claimed to contain the sound of the shots fired at Kennedy's motorcade, as recorded by a motorcycle police officer's radio. The analysis claimed to have detected, to a near certainty, the sound of one more gunshot than would fit within the official version of the facts - a total of four.

This conclusion (and thus, the conclusion of the Select Committee) was later contested by a panel of the National Academy of Sciences (Ramsey Panel). The panel claimed that the suspected fourth shot on the Dictabelt recording really occurred about a minute after the assassination. But an analysis published in Science and Justice 2001 used a different synchrony on the police-radio audio records to show the National Academy of Sciences panel may have erred, making the shot noises real 'to a 95% certainty'.[1] A BBC/ABC study in 2003 believed that the tape recording was done too far away from the assassination to be useful. A recent analysis sponsored by Court TV, determined that the tape was acutally a recording that took place after the shooting, and that the supposed gunshot sounds did not match test gunshot recordings fired on Dealey Plaza any better than random noise.[2]

The Dictabelt recording is a very contested piece of evidence in the Kennedy assassination; studies concluding that the Dictabelt recording was crucial to reach a conclusion, or irrelevant, both exist.

Hundreds of studies of the evidence in the Kennedy assassination have been performed over the years - they have reached as many conclusions about what happened and why. From the Dictabelt recording, eyewitness accounts, testimonials, physical evidence...nearly every "important" piece of evidence has been questioned and counter-questioned since the assassination.

Security failures

The Secret Service (and general security surrounding the President) as it existed in 1963 was very lax by today's standards, and made it much easier for an assassin to kill the President. The Warren Commission's Report, chapter 8, goes to some length to detail flaws in Secret Service security at the time of the assassination. Procedures in place and events of the day presented large holes into which Lee Harvey Oswald, or any potential assassin, could slip. These included:

Not telling Dallas police, specifically, who 'authorized personnel' were, to stand on bridges or overpasses

Not having in place the policy of searching buildings on the path of a motorcade, when said motorcade is announced 'only a few days in advance'

Not properly/thoroughly checking the backgrounds of those in potential close contact with the President - that program was new and undermanned in 1963

Assuming that security measures taken in a 1936 Roosevelt visit to Dallas could be used to model Kennedy's visit

Generally insufficient personnel to accomplish the task at hand of planning and executing the motorcade

Incomplete coordination of information with other government bodies, such as the FBI; the Secret Service had no significant information about Lee Harvey Oswald

Not having a car with a bulletproof top available for the president (no such car had existed for the White House since 1953 because such a car would have a top difficult to add and remove on demand)

Allowing the president enough leeway to plan a route which put him in harm's way

Letting the motorcade slow down substantially at a curve - which gave a gunman ample opportunity for a shot

In short, the ease with which Kennedy was assassinated may as easily be explained by the simple failure of a government organization to see a problem, as by any conspiracy theory.

As one might imagine, significant changes occurred within the Secret Service organization as a direct result of the Kennedy Assassination and the Warren Commission's report, such that a recurrence was much less likely.

The Zapruder Film

Kennedy's motorcade trip through Dealey Plaza was recorded on silent 8mm film before, during, and immediately following the assassination by amateur cameraman Abraham Zapruder, in what became known as the Zapruder film. Many witnesses reported hearing almost simultaneous shots from more than one direction, and seeing smoke from another location, called "the grassy knoll", positioned in front of the motorcade at the time of the assassination. Many feel the Zapruder film supports this theory, as it shows Kennedy first slumping forward in his seat, as though he were shot from behind, and then being flung backward in his seat, as though shot from the front. The Nobel-prize-winning physicist Luis Alvarez has demonstrated, however, that the motions of Kennedy's body may well be consistent with shots fired solely from the Texas School Book Depository. Others have observed that contrary to movie special effects, bullets do not convey enough momentum to throw a human body about; violent movements of persons who have been shot are largely due to nerve damage.

Conspiracy Theories

The security around Kennedy's motorcade was not sufficient - a conclusion that the Warren Commission and other investigations confirm. Some believe that the lack of security suggests that the CIA, Secret Service or some other agent or agencies were actively involved in the assassination, rather than simply negligent.

Many people have pointed to the Warren Commission's 'magic bullet' as unlikely. Some ballistic evidence has suggested that such a bullet trajectory was possible, but this particular point is a source of much contention and disagreement, and a reason by some to discredit this portion (or other portions) of the Warren report. [3]

The presidential limo was immediately cleaned and repaired instead of being secured as possible ballistic evidence. Kennedy's body was also immediately taken to Washington, rather than examined by the local coroner first.

These events can be interpreted as negligent or malicious, but no confirmed evidence has emerged and withstood scrutiny, that actually confirms a conspiracy. There are as many conspiracy theories about how and why Kennedy was killed as there are groups or individuals with the motive to do so.

Just a sampling of these conspiracy theories follows:

John Kennedy and his brother Robert Kennedy (who was also later assassinated) were killed by the Mafia in retaliation for their increasing crackdowns on organized crime; Jimmy Hoffa, Carlos Marcello, and Santo Trafficante Jr. seem to "top the list" of the House Assassination Committee[4]. The family of Chicago mobster Sam Giancana claim the Kennedys doublecrossed him[5]

Kennedy was going to drop Vice President Lyndon Johnson next election, so Johnson had motive[6].

Or, Johnson was simply power-hungry (logically, he would gain the most from Kennedy's death), or was himself an agent of the mob with his own criminal entanglements[7]

The CIA killed Kennedy for not backing the Bay of Pigs Invasion and vowing to break the Agency "into a thousand pieces"[8]

The Cabell brothers (General Charles Cabell, fired by Kennedy over the Bay of Pigs invasion, and Earle Cabell, mayor of Dallas) played in as key figures in the assassination

Cuban President Fidel Castro's agents killed Kennedy in retaliation for the many times the CIA and the mob had tried to kill him[9]

Angry Cuban exiles killed Kennedy for his failure to overthrow Castro's dictatorship

The KGB carried out the assassination because Kennedy was too aggressively anti-Communist, or to demoralize America

The Israeli government was displeased with Kennedy for his pressure over their (then) top-secret nuclear program[10] (see Dimona)

Or, the Israelis were angry over Kennedy's employment of Nazis such as Wernher von Braun[11]

The Federal Reserve (and the powerful foreign interests that supposedly own it) were threatened by Kennedy's moves to restore precious-metals backing to US currency.[12] (Note that the Secret Service was created as a counter-counterfeiting agency, and remains an organ of the Treasury?a direct line from the Fed to Kennedy's security.)

Even that the Greys had him killed for planning to expose the alien conspiracy.[13]

Disproving (to absolute certainty) any given conspiracy theory about the Kennedy assassination (or, conversely, proving that the Warren Commission's findings were 100% correct) may never be possible. Doing either would require 'evidence' that hasn't emerged in 40 years and is somehow so compelling that all sides can agree to agree upon it. Given the realistic likelihood of this, the real motive behind Kennedy's death (and to a lesser extent, how the murder was accomplished) may never be agreed upon.

KGB disinformation

After the end of the Cold War, KGB archivist Vasili Mitrokhin claimed that the KGB had fabricated evidence as part of a disinformation campaign designed to generate distrust of the CIA and US Government among the American people. In his book The Sword and the Shield: The Mitrokhin Archive and the Secret History of the KGB (co-authored with Christopher Andrew) he claims the KGB forged a letter from Lee Harvey Oswald in an attempt to implicate the CIA in the assassination of JFK.

BBC 'Correspondent' programme in 2003

A BBC Correspondent programme, broadcast on 23 November 2003, using exact computer generated images based on the Zapruder film, and using exact placings of Kennedy and Connally in the car at the moment when both were hit, suggested that the wound suffered by Connally matched exactly the entry point that would have occurred had a bullet passed through Kennedy, exited the President's neck and hit Connally. The trajectory led directly to the location from which it was claimed Oswald had fired. Kennedy, due to his back problem, regularly hunched in an unusual posture, with his back raised and neck slightly forward, a position shown in the Zapruder film moments before the shooting, and which is perceived as undermining the claim by magic bullet critics that to enter his neck the bullet would have had to swerve up at an impossible angle. The film shows Kennedy leaning forward slightly with his neck as a result below, not above, his shoulder-blade line. Based on the exact trajectory line shown, the speed of the bullet fired by Oswald's gun, the movements of both men when hit, the timescale within which they reacted (and movements on Connally's jacket immediately prior to Connally's reaction, which indicate something had hit him a fraction of a second earlier) the programme concluded that it was 100% certain that the gunman was located where Oswald had been, that the magic bullet could only have been fired from there, that the bullet entered Kennedy's back, entered and existed his neck, then hit Connally in the back before exiting near his nipple and hiting his wrist, the only point at which the bullet hit bone. It concluded and that both men had with absolute certainty been hit by the same bullet. In addition it was physically impossible for Connally to have have been shot at that spot in his body except through the President, as Kennedy was directly in the path of the trajectory line from the window to Connally.

In addition on the programme, the computer animator, Dale Myers, using all known film of the assassination, demonstated that the "open microphone" which supposedly recorded four shots, could not have been at the location it had to be to have recorded an accurate reflection of the number of shots, free from distortion, echoes from nearby buildings or other noise. The motorcycle cop who supposedly recorded the shots on an accidentially open microphone was in fact 170 yards from the only location where an accurate recording of the number of shots could have been made at the moment when the shooting took place. Film footage also showed the cop at a considerable distance from the motorcade, the President's car and the Texas School Book Depository seconds before the shooting, a distance from the necessary location for accurate recording that even at top speed he could not in the timespan reach. The programme concluded that "there is no doubt that Lee Harvey Oswald killed President Kennedy. There is every doubt that he had accomplices."

[Apollo 0]

Personally it's my oppinion that definatly the security failures and the faults in the fact that The limousine was cleaned and repaired before investigation and Kennedy's body not having been open to investigation by coroner directly after the murder is pretty good ground for conspiracy theory's ,especially toward's powerfull people within the U.S itself ,maybe able to influence police or CIA.

[toadlife 3]

I know who really killed him, but I'm not allowed to say

Yes, Yes, It was the one-armed man.