French headscarf ban recommended

[python3 0]

im sorry, but evolution is a theory, they tried to make an argument against it. What's the problem? key word is Theory It has become an accepted one, yes, but it is still a theory nontheless

[m21man 0]

It's a theory, sure, but I haven't heard anything that sounds more likely to be true.

[python3 0]

ok, fine, but that still does not make it a fact or law of science like the laws of gravity and what not. Read up, i should too, there are many people who can argue it, not just religious people, but other scientists with their own views. It is just that this one has been promoted dogmatically.

[denoir 0]

But to say, religion has no say in the secular world. Come on, maybe in the secular world yes. But not everyone wants the secular life. Some countries try to strike a balance. Stem Cell research is still a hot topic among many secular countries. One would have thought they would have just went for it. Because of evolution, those non secular countries will not fall far behind the secular ones. There are a few minute topics which the values of Islam would probably go against. Most of them are theories yet to be proved. This does not mean that religion has hindered science, except in the cases were people have taken religion out of context, ex. taliban.

The secular world is not an alternative to religion. The secular world is the things we see through direct observation. An apple falls to the ground because of gravity, not divine intervention. Your car drives because it has an engine, regardless if you are a muslim, a christian or a jew. The secular is the universal and denying it is only self-destructive. You can have a religious belief, no problem - but it's not an alternative - it's a complement.

If you want to see religion's effects on scientific progress, Europe is a good example. All the major achievements in science were made when the church backed off a bit, leaving the scientist to actually observe and test the processes in the world, instead of spewing out religious dogma. Each time the church stepped in and prevented science and technology from following its own path, based on religious and moral grounds, progress was halted. And you don't need to burn people to achive that - just cut their funding and you'll get the same effect. And that's what you are going to get if the state is connected to the religion and makes laws and recommendations based on it. Religion should be confined to the spiritual domain. Making secular decisions based on religious arguments is no better than flipping a coin.

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]ok, fine, but that still does not make it a fact or law of science like the laws of gravity and what not. Read up, i should too, there are many people who can argue it, not just religious people, but other scientists with their own views. It is just that this one has been promoted dogmatically.

And what are these other theories? I've certainly heard people poke some holes into evolution, but I have never heard a completely new theory.

[bn880 5]

Your car drives because it has an engine, regardless if you are a muslim, a christian or a jew.

I could make some joke here, but I think that was funny enough.

Quote[/b] ]Religion should be confined to the spiritual domain. Making secular decisions based on religious arguments is no better than flipping a coin.

No better, it's worse... IMO

PS: Denoir, you indecent sinner, how can you have pre-marital sex?? The shame...

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]If you want to see religion's effects on scientific progress, Europe is a good example. All the major achievements in science were made when the church backed off a bit, leaving the scientist to actually observe and test the processes in the world, instead of spewing out religious dogma. Each time the church stepped in and prevented science and technology from following its own path, based on religious and moral grounds, progress was halted.

Yes, it seems like every time the Church "corrected" a scientist, they did it over something that is now accepted .

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]No better, it's worse...   IMO

In the U.S. we have commercials asking, "What would Jesus drive?".

[bn880 5]

Yes I know, and the answer is a camel.

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]Yes I know, and the answer is a camel.

If cars were available, I'd imagine that he would have used an SUV (Lots of off-roading). I can't see Jesus and the Apostles spilling out of a VW Beetle like a bunch of circus clowns .

[python3 0]

Quote[/b] ]ok, fine, but that still does not make it a fact or law of science like the laws of gravity and what not. Read up, i should too, there are many people who can argue it, not just religious people, but other scientists with their own views. It is just that this one has been promoted dogmatically.

And what are these other theories? I've certainly heard people poke some holes into evolution, but I have never heard a completely new theory.

you know what, neither have i. I have heard references about it, but i dont know of any off the top of my head. That is why i suggested reading up on the matter more. Who knows what people are saying without us looking up the matter. I dunno, maybe sometime down the road with more technology and what not, there might be new theory on evolution or whatever.

[python3 0]

Quote[/b] ]The secular world is not an alternative to religion. The secular world is the things we see through direct observation. An apple falls to the ground because of gravity, not divine intervention. Your car drives because it has an engine, regardless if you are a muslim, a christian or a jew. The secular is the universal and denying it is only self-destructive. You can have a religious belief, no problem - but it's not an alternative - it's a complement.

well, in some cases it is trying to replce religious values and all. Like values and what is acceptable/not acceptable. Islam as i have stated did not hinder science in its golden age. It does not hinder it today. The men running the show do. Yes i am well aware of the churches role in hindering science, look at what happened to galileo. In some instances secularism can complement religion, like scientific, medical progress etc. Socially, it goes against some religious teachings. Islam should not be confined to the spiritual domain only, because it was created as a system by which individuals should live by and be governed by. It deals with everything an individual needs to do, a guide for their lives. It is a social system too. You can adapt religion to suit modern times and questions.

[denoir 0]

Well, that's reasonable but there are still issues:

1) How can you claim that it's the absolute truth and the will of God, if you adapt and change the religion to fit the current needs.

2) How do you deal with multicultural societies? Global communications are here to stay and the world is becoming more and more integrated. We do still have different values.

[python3 0]

again, i am no expert on islam and modern science, so to show you the struggle within the religion and how the two can coexist and complement as you said denoir, here is a wonderfully long article. If you folks wanna argue bout the topic, please read the article, dont be scared by its length. I know, i was too . hmmm. if i could get this link working....Al Ilm

[python3 0]

Well, that's reasonable but there are still issues:

1)  How can you claim that it's the absolute truth and the will of God, if you adapt and change the religion to fit the current needs.

2) How do you deal with multicultural societies? Global communications are here to stay and the world is becoming more and more integrated. We do still have different values.

numero uno) Because you dont change what is said in the Koran. If it says donkey's and camels for example, you replace it by cars and trucks. I know this is lame and all. lemme just ponder it more.....

dos)When islam was all over the place in its golden age, It spanned across africa and asia + half of spain, a lot of different people lived under Islamic laws. Yet, they were never forced to convert or wear symbols like jewish star or anything of that sort. It was like you live your way, we live ours, all you gotta do is pay a small tax to the state for protection. Look at Iran today, the largest Jewish population in the ME outside of Israel is Iran. Thats right "fundamentalist" Iran. They are not persecuted. Even today there are muslims originating from 52 different coutries, in addition to converts from all over the world. Yet they all converge to Mecca when its the time of the year. Islam is very diverse.

having different values does not mean we cannot do business or get along. In business and politics today, every good politician and business man tries to please the people he/she is with by giving the impression that hey know their culture and are tolerant of it, so they give an indication of that. People will always have different values, thats why we will always be a diversespecies. But we can still get along.

[denoir 0]

Having one religion's values as law does indeed by definition superinpose the beliefs of one group to the rest. You can't have laws based on the teachings of Islam and then say that it's equal for all religions..

[bn880 5]

Quote[/b] ]Yes I know, and the answer is a camel.

If cars were available, I'd imagine that he would have used an SUV (Lots of off-roading). I can't see Jesus and the Apostles spilling out of a VW Beetle like a bunch of circus clowns .

Oh yeah... why didn't I think of that

[m21man 0]

Actually, the RUC (Religious Utility Camel) was Jesus's preferred method of transport .

[SPQR 0]

Yet, they were never forced to convert or wear symbols like jewish star or anything of that sort.

You are kidding I hope ?

Maybe it was true inside some "kingdoms", but not everywhere. In southern Europe, under the turkish muslim domination, the people had to change faith. Don't write as you would like the real History to be.

And the Muslims have felt betrayed bt jews, in the past history of Saudia Arabia when the Prophet was alive  

And please don't start to argue about the first who invade the other, I'll be able to go in the past really farther than you ! A sensless battle currently

[python3 0]

well, in terms of forced conversion, i was referring to southern spain, africa, and some parts of asia, when the caliphs were alive. The turks and what they did, was not during islam's golden age. I'm sure they have done as much evil as anyone else.

as to the rest of your pst, i have no clue what u are talking about.

[SPQR 0]

again, i am no expert on islam and modern science, so to show you the struggle within the religion and how the two can coexist and complement as you said denoir, here is a wonderfully long article. If you folks wanna argue bout the topic, please read the article, dont be scared by its length. I know, i was too . hmmm. if i could get this link working....Al Ilm

Truly interresting !

A real quest for Truth and sipitual Enlightment, without monolithic dogmatisms

I wish there will be more people like him, and that their voice and knowledge will overcome the fear and the hatred, shutting the extremists' mouth up.

[python3 0]

spqr, i am impressed you read it.

[SPQR 0]

as to the rest of your pst, i have no clue what u are talking about.

The Bani Quraytha Jews : Traitors or Betrayed?

This is one of the reasons (not the major one, but it can be easily used by "death dealers") why jews and muslims live in perpetual conflict  

Testimonies of religions misunderstanding and "propagandas" (the same for christians )

[python3 0]

well, naturally, i think this was argued by avon and acecombat in another thread or a similar topic. There are two sides to every stories......, so one side blames the other and yes it is just one of the many reasons we live in a perpetual conflict.

[SPQR 0]

well, naturally, i think this was argued by avon and acecombat in another thread or a similar topic. There are two sides to every stories......, so one side blames the other and yes it is just one of the many reasons we live in a perpetual conflict.

Not at all. I learned about it during a muslim religious information broadcast in France.

In my country, every sunday morning, you have a broadcast of each : catholic, protestant, muslim, bouddist (I hope I forgot no one)

And I particulary like when broadcasts propose to us some  calm debates about religious problems between spiritual leaders of different religions