Sweden decides

[NurEinMensch 0]

On 14 September the people in Sweden are going to vote about introducing the Euro as their currency or keeping the Krona.

Current polls show the "no" voters are leading, despite a huge pro Euro campaign, but it is very close and it's still open which side will win.

Would it be wise for the Swedes to join the Euro-zone or should they better keep their freedom to decide in the future?

What will the rest of Europe gain or lose, depending on the swedish vote?

And how will Sweden's decision affect opinions in other EU member countries which have not yet joined the Euro-zone, e.g. the UK?

[Pukko 0]

I'll vote yes. Noone can really tell if it will beniefit us economically or not. For me, thats not more than a short term greed question. I'll do anything to make sure that Europe grows stronger as soon as possible; because evidently there is an emergent need for a counterpart to a blindly frustrated USA that use violence as the first solution to 'not so very accurate problems' internationally. Call it an preemptive emergency solution - it really cant be for the worse anyway (well, Europe in it self may be bad in the future - but otherwise there may not be much of a future at all).

Also, a common currency is probably the absolute best way to unite a people. I'm primary worried about in which ways an European identity is created. If we unite ourselves by saying "we're the biggest and the best" we're fucked before we even started - not to say how much the ones that will have to stand in contrast to our greatness (as in making sure most people on earth have a bad time) will be...

[hellfish6 7]

I'd vote yes because I prefer to not have to get ripped off when I change money on my visits to Europe. And since I intend to visit distant relatives in Sweden someday, I'd like the ability to fly over from Germany or wherever and be able to spend my money immediately.

But then again, I'm not a Swede and any opinion I have is totally useless in this.

[Bordoy 0]

If i was a Swede i would vote NO. i wouldn't want to be a "european".

As i'm English and there was a referendum in the UK I would still vote NO.

I've heard theres some economic problems in Germany which doesn't sound very good.

[denoir 0]

I'll be voting yes of course.

Economics:

The best parallel is Finland which has a similar economy to the Swedish. They've done better than Sweden and are pleased with the Euro.

Politics:

I'm a firm believer of the necessity of European cooperation and this is one important step.

[iNeo 0]

If I was one year older I'd vote No. It will cost quite a lot to change from krona to euro and there are some side effects I don't like.

Besides it seems like the Yes-side is hiding something

[bn880 5]

I'd vote yes, I think my family in Sweden will be voting yes as well, I'll have to ask, but they are pretty pro EU. Actually very.

[Longinius 1]

I think I'll be voting no. But I am still not determined.

To be honest, it is my firmest opinion that we shouldnt be voting at all. This is what we have elected officials to do, its far to complex for the average Joe to grasp (me included)

I did vote yes for joining the EU. But I dont like the way the current economics are run. Its all very political, and not at all in interest of economics. Making it look more like a banana republic than anything else.

But come the 14th, we'll see.

[EiZei 0]

Economics:

The best parallel is Finland which has a similar economy to the Swedish. They've done better than Sweden and are pleased with the Euro.

Except that your social services are not pure shit nowadays.

And yes, I think the prices did take a sharp rise.

[Longinius 1]

And, at the same time, Denmark voted no to the EMU, but they are doing good...

[iNeo 0]

I don't really understand why our PM is going to re-do the votation until they get a Yes (he said that iirc)... The votations are only guiding/advical (if that's even a word) so he could just make the decision himself even if the people say No.

Maybe that would seem a bit dictorious (if that's even a word ) but it was done in the beginning of the 20th century concerning changing to driving on the right side (people voted No, Sweden changed anyway).

[EiZei 0]

I don't really understand why our PM is going to re-do the votation until they get a Yes (he said that iirc)... The votations are only guiding/advical (if that's even a word) so he could just make the decision himself even if the people say No.

Maybe that would seem a bit dictorious (if that's even a word ) but it was done in the beginning of the 20th century concerning changing to driving on the right side (people voted No, Sweden changed anyway).

Be thankful that you were even allowed to vote. Our PM decided that we are going to go euro no matter how we liked and we did.

[denoir 0]

Quote[/b] ]And, at the same time, Denmark voted no to the EMU, but they are doing good...

It's funny how people have opinions and "knowledge" about things when in fact they're just making it up. I was on a lecture at the Stockholm University yesterday given by a neutral organization on the economic effects of the EMU. Among the examples was Denmark, whose economy is in an all time historical low.

So wtf do you mean that they're doing well?    

I'm very surprised to see you on the "no" side, Longinius. I thought that you would be the last person to fall for irrational fear and xenophobia. No offense, but it is irrational. You have every respectable politician and industry leader telling you that this is a good thing for Sweden, and you choose to listen to a hysterical crackpot as Birger Schlaug?  

Sometimes I have really trouble understanding people...

[iNeo 0]

I was on a lecture at the Stockholm University yesterday given by a neutral organization on the economic effects of the EMU. Among the examples was Denmark, whose economy is in an all time historical low.

That doesn't mean they would be better off with euro though

[denoir 0]

I was on a lecture at the Stockholm University yesterday given by a neutral organization on the economic effects of the EMU. Among the examples was Denmark, whose economy is in an all time historical low.

That doesn't mean they would be better off with euro though

No it doesn't. We don't know. But what it means is that "Denmark that doesn't have the Euro is doing well" is a not an argument since Denmark isn't doing well.

EiZei:

Quote[/b] ]Except that your social services are not pure shit nowadays.

And yes, I think the prices did take a sharp rise.

First of all taxes are not controled by the EMU, so what your social services are becoming is the result of your local politics. Second, the prices in Finland did not rise. The base consumer index actually fell a couple of points. So I'm afraid that your subjectve view on it isn't quite accurate.

[iNeo 0]

That doesn't mean they would be better off with euro though

No it doesn't. We don't know. But what it means is that "Denmark that doesn't have the Euro is doing well" is a not an argument since Denmark isn't doing well.

True.

Let's just vote No and wait and see

I used to be pro euro (I'm of course pro EU btw), and I know that when we signed on for EU we also signed on to eventually join EMU. But then I read that the costs to change the currency would be x billions €... and our economy isn't the best, failing to get the too big number of immigrants an occupation is anything but cheap.

I heard at school that changing to euro would open more immigration lines which just does more damage to the economy.

We got more of them than we need IMO.

(Edit: Added the quote.)

[denoir 0]

It's not now we're joining it's at earliest 2006. And the economy is turning around now. By 2006 the economic situation won't be the same as it is today.

And it is a natural development. Check out this overview of Swedish currency throught time. And these were just the national currencies. Before the krona was introduced in 1873 each province (län) had its own currencies.

Why should Sm?land's currency be governed from some beaurocrats in Stockholm?

Quote[/b] ]I heard at school that changing to euro would open more immigration lines which just does more damage to the economy.

That's also not true. EMU has nothing to do with immigration policy. Also, you should know that EU's immigration policy (for immigrants from non-EU countries) is far more restrictive than Sweden's own immigration policy. And as for EU immigrants, Sweden being the second poorest country in the EU, does not have much appeal for immigration for EU citizens.

[NurEinMensch 0]

I myself think it'd be a good thing if Sweden adopted the Euro. It is true, it does create more unity to share a common currency and I think unity is something we need in Europe, with all our cultural differences.

What you in Sweden will get for sure if you get the Euro is rising prices. We have experienced it in the Euro-zone already and you still hear people complain about it, although more than often it's not the Euro itself that is to blame.

But I think the long term benefit will be worth it, for the reasons already stated by others.

[Longinius 1]

"It's funny how people have opinions and "knowledge" about things when in fact they're just making it up. I was on a lecture at the Stockholm University yesterday given by a neutral organization on the economic effects of the EMU. Among the examples was Denmark, whose economy is in an all time historical low."

I guess it depends on how you look at it. Since I work in Denmark, I think I have a fairly good view of the grass root economics. And as far as I can tell, they are doing good. But, its quite possible its all f'ed up on a higher level but not yet evident to the common citizen. Some how, I doubt that though.

"I'm very surprised to see you on the "no" side, Longinius. I thought that you would be the last person to fall for irrational fear and xenophobia. No offense, but it is irrational. You have every respectable politician and industry leader telling you that this is a good thing for Sweden, and you choose to listen to a hysterical crackpot as Birger Schlaug?"

No, I chose to listen to both sides. And right now, I feel very uncertain on how to vote. For various reasons, I havent decided yet.

As for what respectable politicians and industry leaders tell me, well, forgive me for being sceptical. Our PM is a respectable politician I suppose, but I wouldnt trust him with my car keys. I so do not like many of these yes sayers. The entire debate stinks to high heaven, more focused on b.s reasons than on real facts (And yes, both sides are very guilty in this). My alarm bell goes off when I see people act like these guys do, and it makes me want to vote No just because it _feels_ like the devil I know, not because I agree with leftist politicians.

"Sometimes I have really trouble understanding people... "

Me to. But like I said, it probably has to do with the debate turning into such a farse. I used to be very pro EMU and EU, and right now, I am very sceptical.

[Bordoy 0]

Economics:

The best parallel is Finland which has a similar economy to the Swedish. They've done better than Sweden and are pleased with the Euro.

Like i said what about Germanys economical situation?

[denoir 0]

The entire debate stinks to high heaven, more focused on b.s reasons than on real facts (And yes, both sides are very guilty in this).

Yes, and why is that? Because no man alive can predict the outcome of such a large project. We can't even roughly estimate what effects it will have on our economy. The only thing we know is that it is going to have consequences both if we choose to join and if we decline.

So what is there to go on? The principle behind it. If you do not believe in European cooperation and a future for the EU, then vote no. If you believe that European cooperation is good principle then vote yes. It's simple as that.

This election is one of ideology, not of economic facts.

[denoir 0]

Economics:

The best parallel is Finland which has a similar economy to the Swedish. They've done better than Sweden and are pleased with the Euro.

Like i said what about Germanys economical situation?

That's why a posted about Finland, as a counter point to your example.

The economy is in the world is basically bad wherever you look. Determining how bad is very complex and to determine why one country is doing slightly better or worse compared to another is more or less impossible. The Euro is a long-term project. Call me in 50 years and I'll tell you how it turned out

[Longinius 1]

Its a good point, D. A very good point, and actually what the debate should have been focused around.

But, ask me again on the evening of the 14th and we'll which way I went.

[denoir 0]

Well, IMO there should have not been an election in the first place. I think it undermines the principle of a representative democracy.

[Longinius 1]

My point exactly. I elected people to do these decisions for me, after having studied every aspect of it to the T.