m21man 0 Posted January 7, 2004 Quote[/b] ]Ask the Bobbys in Britain. I think they have some experience in the field. So they have experience with handling hundreds of angry people with assault rifles, RPGs, and makeshift explosives? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralphwiggum 6 Posted January 7, 2004 please refrain from calling names, flaming and etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denoir 0 Posted January 7, 2004 Quote[/b] ]"To single source any product without competitive bidding is an affront to the very freedoms for which we are fighting in Iraq," said Bob Morrison, heading the Taurus firearms efforts in North America. Oh, the irony... Â Quote[/b] ]I agree fully with Walker's post and think that trying to create a police force will create further tensions within the country. The big mistake was to directly dismantle Saddam's old organizations. The military and police should have been kept and the bad elements phased out. Right now there's much potential for conflict - as could be seen last week when Iraqi police opened fire on a demonstration by ex-Iraqi military. Iraq is a very fragile country in its core, and adding conflicts certainly doesn't help. Having said that, I think that building up an Iraqi military and police is not only a good, but a necessary process. The problem is that it is damn difficult to do anyhting in the post-war chaos in Iraq. There's really no good starting point to begin the reconstruction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jinef 2 Posted January 7, 2004 So they have experience with handling hundreds of angry people with assault rifles, RPGs, and makeshift explosives? Humm, actually the US forces just kill those crowds, there aren't many more left. I'm saying that as the police will probably not be respected when they are first initiated it will be a bad idea to give them, with little training, weapons. Aha, i now see the US strategy, sit in bunkers and let the country rip itself to pieces by arming certain people and not others and then clean up a few years later, when there is no more Iraqis. That tactic has worked before, why not again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Longinius 1 Posted January 7, 2004 "So they have experience with handling hundreds of angry people with assault rifles, RPGs, and makeshift explosives?" You ask how police are supposed to enforce the law without weapons, I responded. In the particular case of assault rifles , RPG's and explosives I dont think we are talking lawenforcement. I think we are talking peacekeeping. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jinef 2 Posted January 7, 2004 Well, peacemaking if there is no peace to keep, but honestly there isn't hundreds of crowds walking around with AKs. I'm sure that since the Americans only just learnt where Iraq is after a large nationwide brainstorm over a map they all consider themselves to be experts at what it's like in any place at any time in Iraq. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralphwiggum 6 Posted January 7, 2004 Quote[/b] ]"To single source any product without competitive bidding is an affront to the very freedoms for which we are fighting in Iraq," said Bob Morrison, heading the Taurus firearms efforts in North America. Oh, the irony... Â replace with - that was my first response. and if it hasn't been made clear, i'm not letting this thread degenerate in to flamewar. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FSPilot 0 Posted January 7, 2004 Well, peacemaking if there is no peace to keep, but honestly there isn't hundreds of crowds walking around with AKs. I'm sure that since the Americans only just learnt where Iraq is after a large nationwide brainstorm over a map they all consider themselves to be experts at what it's like in any place at any time in Iraq. How about you go to Iraq and walk around in a police uniform without any weapon. See how long you last when you walk into some pro-Saddam riot full of people with AKs and RPGs. And don't pretend that Iraqi civilians don't have guns, that's just plain naive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jinef 2 Posted January 7, 2004 Do you really think that the Iraqi people are all lunatics who like to walk around with guns and kill Americans? How the hell can you expect to get their respect if you are afraid they are all savage terrorists It's outrageous how badly they are percieved. Well a lot of American civilians have guns, if i walk around in a police uniform in the US without a gun will i get jumped by a crowd? Hmm pro Saddam, who is pro Saddamn in the world, i don't think that chap isn't going to get invited to many weddings this year. AKs and RPGs lala lalal lala If you are a US soldier in Iraq and you see someone with a AK and an RPG, you are going to arrest them, confiscate the weapon and send them on their way. I'm sure you have an image of badlands Mogadishu in 1993 or something, believe it or not the US forces have been quite successful in disarming the Iraqi people. Yes there are loads more weapons but i doubt they would get far if they went out into the street. Have you no empathy, do you not think that most Iraqi people just want the US out and to live on their little lives. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Balschoiw 0 Posted January 7, 2004 Quote[/b] ]namecalling (morons) Did not do so. You got what I wanted to say. It´s the error within US military and governmental policy on the role of their troops and the way they want the Iraq government to be. None of the current members of the iraqui administration can set one foot out of the car without the risk of getting killed. You know why ? People in Iraq know that this is a puppet government that has nothing to do with them or the interests of their country. Free elections you say.... How free can elections be if the candidates are ALL selected by US. Come on,  what do you think how long it will take until you have a second war in Iraq. This time it will be the Iraqui people that will push the US out their land. These people are not silly. They are well educated and know what you are after. This is not to compare to Afghanistan where you keep your hands out more and more and let the work be done by NATO allies. Your troops can´t leave their camp without massive protection, our troops can. I wonder what makes them so different for the afghanistan people. Can you tell me ? I mean the US have to change their way unless they want that EVERY american who leaves his country for holiday is getting a target for terror, or is this fear implanted into US citizens to keep them at home and under the control of the almighty US media system and Bureau of Homeland Security ? What do you think ? Edit: I don´t fix my likes or dislikes on nationality but character Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FSPilot 0 Posted January 8, 2004 Do you really think that the Iraqi people are all lunatics who like to walk around with guns and kill Americans?How the hell can you expect to get their respect if you are afraid they are all savage terrorists It's outrageous how badly they are percieved. Well a lot of American civilians have guns, if i walk around in a police uniform in the US without a gun will i get jumped by a crowd? Did I say that? No. You can't control a gun-toting mob without another gun or some form of defense (less-lethal weapons). I'm not saying that all Iraqis are gun toting crazy people out to shoot people. But Iraq is literally a warzone now, having unarmed cops roaming around would be stupid. Why don't we take the soldier's M-16s away while we're at it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Longinius 1 Posted January 8, 2004 Quote[/b] ]How about you go to Iraq and walk around in a police uniform without any weapon. See how long you last when you walk into some pro-Saddam riot full of people with AKs and RPGs. And don't pretend that Iraqi civilians don't have guns, that's just plain naive. Why would a police walk unarmed into a riot? Its not like there are riots 24/7 on the streets of Bagdad you know. Obviously a police headed for a riot situation should and will be armed. However, a regular patroling officer doesnt need to flash guns. If that is his or her only way to get respect, then they have all ready failed. Of course police officers in a country like Iraq should have access to arms. The question is to which extent during routine, day to day business with civilians. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FSPilot 0 Posted January 8, 2004 Longinius Quote[/b] ]Why would a police walk unarmed into a riot? Ask the people proposing it, I think it's a stupid idea. Quote[/b] ]Its not like there are riots 24/7 on the streets of Bagdad you know. Why is everyone twisting what I say to make it look like I don't know what life in Baghdad is like? Â I never said there were riots 24/7 on the streets of Baghdad. Quote[/b] ]Obviously a police headed for a riot situation should and will be armed. However, a regular patroling officer doesnt need to flash guns. If that is his or her only way to get respect, then they have all ready failed. Officers of the law don't carry guns to get respect, they carry guns because the people they're enforcing laws upon have guns and often use them. Quote[/b] ]Of course police officers in a country like Iraq should have access to arms. The question is to which extent during routine, day to day business with civilians. For day to day routines I think they should carry, and be properly trained with, a small sidearm. Â They don't need an AK for parking tickets. Â But they may need an AK for the next riot. Â Not to just shoot up the lot though, so they wont look like a defenseless target. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denoir 0 Posted January 8, 2004 What are y'all yapping about? The police in Baghdad obviously need guns just as about every other police force in the world. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Balschoiw 0 Posted January 8, 2004 Quote[/b] ]Violence in the northern city of Kirkuk continued, as Kurds fought Turkmen and Arab militias, leaving over two dozen dead. The Arabs and Turkmen are resisting Kurdish attempts to make Kirkuk part of the autonomous Kurdish zone in the north. Kirkuk has oil wells, and has traditionally been Kurdish. But in the last decade, Saddam drove Kurds out and brought in Arabs (Turkmen have long been in the area as a minority.) The US has told the Iraqis that they will have to decide, before they take control of the country this July, what form of government the Kurds will be allowed. The Kurds want to maintain their autonomy as one large "Kurdistan." The Iraqi Arabs want to limit the autonomy and run the north at two or more provinces. Iraq's neighbors with Kurdish minorities (Turkey, Iran, Syria) are also against any kind of "Kurdistan." The Kurds have threatened to resist any attempts to deny them autonomy. Kurds have been rebelling over this issue for thousands of years. The Iraqi Governing Council has come up with a plan for a new government. A key dispute is developing over how much autonomy the Kurds will be allowed. For the moment, the Kurds are being allowed to govern themselves as they have for the last 13 years. Everyone agrees there will be a parliament and democracy, with the 18 provinces allowed more autonomy than in the past. The challenge will be to come up with a form of government that will not lead to a coup and another dictator in 5-10 years. I´m too lazy to search old Iraq thread but I remember that we have already come to these conclusions proir war. I guess some of us could be good advisors for tumbling TBA Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted January 8, 2004 Quote[/b] ]U.S. Copter Goes Down in Iraq, Killing 9AP - 1 minute ago A U.S. Black Hawk medivac helicopter crashed Thursday near a stronghold of the anti-American insurgency, killing all nine soldiers aboard, the U.S. military said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
m21man 0 Posted January 8, 2004 Quote[/b] ]For day to day routines I think they should carry, and be properly trained with, a small sidearm. Â They don't need an AK for parking tickets. Â But they may need an AK for the next riot. Â Not to just shoot up the lot though, so they wont look like a defenseless target. I agree, I think giving them pistols is the correct thing to do. It's not like I recommended installing M2s on police cars. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akira 0 Posted January 8, 2004 Looks like they finally found some WMDs... WMDs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted January 8, 2004 Looks like they finally found some WMDs...WMDs Creepy! I hope they toss the key away for these creaps. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Balschoiw 0 Posted January 8, 2004 Quote[/b] ]Federal officials disagreed with the contention that their international investigation into terrorism has distracted them from domestic threats. Haha ! It´s always better to have an enemy abroad than having to fight them within the own country. Uh oh and they were white´s not muslims Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akira 0 Posted January 8, 2004 Quote[/b] ]Uh oh and they were white´s not muslims Little red around the neck as well. What are the chances of this getting any coverage? Nil. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frisbee 0 Posted January 8, 2004 I heard some stuff from a friend of mine,his father is currently in Benin,together with danes,spaniards and americans. As his usual experience,all the european countries put their tents together because of the american attitude they experienced. Most of the european guys out there saw action in Kosovo,Rwanda,Bosnia,etc,most of the americans are 18year old rookies straight from boot camp. Only some are GW1 vets who sadly saw their 'quiet' unit shipped off because of all the guys in Iraq. The american colonel in charge (with a G.W.Bush picture framed in his tent  ) wanted that the americans had control in all times,so the european officers would have to salute even an american corporal.  Of course dismissed,and the europeans all put up pictures of their royal family and waved their national flags just for fun  Anyways,to come back to the point;the same stuff listed before happened,tasked to go ask some questions in the local villages,europeans go lightly armed without full battle gear,asking questions,the american doctrine apparently dictates swinging around the m2 on your hummers rooftop while doing so. (sorry for the offtopic rant,just wanted to share something about american peacekeeping i found interesting) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gollum1 0 Posted January 8, 2004 Looks like they finally found some WMDs...WMDs HOW IRONIC...like Akira said, will this get any coverage? :rolleyes: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Balschoiw 0 Posted January 8, 2004 Capt´n Bush were are we going ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tex -USMC- 0 Posted January 8, 2004 Not on Fox News- all day it's been nothing but some slack-jawed yokel who killed half his family and abducted the other half. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
