The Iraq Thread 2

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]I do not know enough about the former U.N. to comment on it, although I should. I am talking about the U.N. that has been around for the last 10 or so years.

Heh ?

UN in a move without my knowledge ?

10 years or so ago Un was the same than it is today Mr. America.

To sum your last post up:

You don´t know anything about the Un. You don´tknow anything about the reasons to go to war.

You don´t know anything about the non- existing WMD´s in Iraq but you KNOW that you have to follow every word your president tells you.

I´m sorry. Even the CIA has pointed out that they had setup (or should I better say revived the Nigeria uranium conspiracy)

It has been proven wrong multiple times:

1. US embassador was sent to Nigeria to investigate that deal

2. US embassador found nothing

3. Us embassador´s wife was uncovered as CIA agent by own government.

3. Independant italian, swiss and AMERRICAN yournalists found

nothing. (and they were in Nigeria)

4. Report sent to White house. Extra remark from CIA Brennant to NOT mention the Nigeria Uranium contracts as they were proven fakes.

5. GWB mentions Nigeria contracts, that have been proven to be false from your own agency.

6. Reason for war.

7. UN report done by Powell has been proven to be totally

stupid. No moblie Bio-Labs (those were mobile artillery shell refilling trucks), no WMD´s at the locations your secret agencies pointed out. In fact the UN inspectors were really pissed, because your "hot" infos took them to places they flattened long ago.

To sum it up once again:

The USA under G.W. Bush started an illegal war for false reasons.

Be happy to be US.

Join the war.

I will examine your grave someday.

[miles teg 1]

TexMex... (fellow hispanic?), you shouldn't be talking about what you no nothing about.  

France has never been our friend? When did this split in friendship happen?  We've been economic competitors certainly but not anymore then with Britain or Germany.  Foreign policy-wise generally we've stayed out of each other's way in modern history... well until now.

You may not want American to be in the UN, but many of your fellow Americans like myself truly believe that the United Nations is an extremely important international organization.  

Certainly its had its fair share of problems and failures but no more then any other beauracracy.   Many of the services they provide globally are incredibly vital.  But sadly many Americans like yourself probably do not care at all about helping other nations unless it effects your pocketbook or its to kill "the bad guys".   As I mentioned above in my last reply, typical "black and white", "Good vs. Evil" mentality of a conservative without even the slightest bit of thought going into looking at different perspectives including those of "the enemy".  

As for Iraq giving away their WMD's, has it ever crossed your mind that Saddam had 12 years to give WMD's to terrorists???

Does it not come across as strange to you that in all the hordes of documents discovered in both Iraq and Afghanistan, nothing has shown any link between Al-Qaeda and Iraq?  

If Saddam was going to provide WMD's to terrorists it almost certainly would have been to Hamas or Islamic Jihad in Israel.  Both of those terrorist groups he openly supported as do most Muslim Middle East nations (including most of our Middle East allies like Saudi Arabia).   Those groups may be terrorist groups but they are NOT Al-Qaeda.  

It just boggles my mind how convinced some of you conservatives are that Saddam was on the brink of giving WMD's to terrorists.  Based on WHAT evidence does is this belief based on exactly? Please inform me because I for one would be very interested in knowing.  

Even the BUSH ADMINISTRATION has OPENLY ADMITTED now that there is NO link between Saddam and Al-Qaeda, yet somehow they keep calling the Iraq occupation the frontline on the WAR ON TERROR.   That's such bullshit when it has nothing to do with the war on terror.  Zip, zero, none, unless it was to help the Israelies get rid of one of their enemy's supporters.   But Saddam is small potatoes compared to the enormous amounts of money that come from Saudi Arabia into the coffers of Hamas and Islamic Jihad.  

My only guess is that it is just out of shere blind loyalty to President Bush that most conservatives in America can't seem to accept the evidence that is before them and instead want to believe that the occupation in Iraq is going to end with a great Middle East democracy where everyone will live in peace and harmony somehow... when instead everything is now pointing to the fact that without more security in Iraq and a VERY strong central government, Iraq will likely fall apart into civil war when we pull out.   If we don't pull out our troops are symbolic of everything Muslims hate about America's foreign policy in the Middle East and thus are perfect targets for Jihad.  

If the Iraqi government does what needs to be done in order to insure security, it would mean creating a feared secret police and creating a cell system within Iraq where everyone spied on each other.  That was Saddam's key to survival.  He rewarded snitches handsomely.  

If a new Iraqi government uses the same tactics they will be no better then Saddam and will likely be voted out in favor of a weaker government with which armed militants will have a field day with.   That's the risk of a democracy.  

It can very easily turn into a "gun barrel democracy" where those groups with the most firepower determine the government.  

As I stated before, we opened Pandora's box on what should have been left alone for Iraqis to sort out themselves.

Sure Saddam was a horribly brutal dictator, but guess what...such horrible tyrants abound all over the world.  Our new friend Khaddaffi for example...  he may be giving up WMD's but he's on of the worst human rights violators in the world with God only knows how many thousands or hundreds of thousands of murders under his belt.  

Yet he does our bidding and so he's our new bestest buddy in the war on terror without a peep mentioned about his human rights record.

Then we wonder why the world sees America as the world's biggest hypocrit.  Not that you care, but others might be interested in knowing that in Islam the hypocrit is the worst of all sinners and fit for death.

More and more America is fullfilling the stereotype that fundamentalist Muslims characterize America as... and that is a nation of hypocrits attacking and opressing Muslims all over the world... thus making Americans perfectly legit targets for holy war according to their religious beliefs.  

The more we practice the Israeli style tactic of group punishment (that punishes guilty and innocent people together as one group) around the world, the more this impression of America waging war on Islam is going to be validated even amongst moderate Muslims when it comes to a point when they can not ignore it.   At that point we will have a serious world war on our hands.   It is also at that point that the American constitution may be cast aside in order to round up Muslims living in America in order to put them in detention camps just as we did to Japanese Americans during WWII.    Only this time around, I don't think all Americans will go along with this policy.  

Tex-Mex, rather then defending Bush's policies with emotion based arguments, try thinking for yourself and actually try to defend his policies with facts.  I guarantee you that you won't find many facts that support Bush's policies.  

But if you want to just continue to use emotion based arguements, then this debate will never go anywhere.  

It's the same thing arguing with conservative Muslims.  

They are exactly like American conservatives with strict interpretations of their religion, and with narrow black & white views of the world where they force everything into a narrow and stiff belief system...and then act angrily when anyone challenges that belief system with solid facts.  

If Christian fundamentalists for example, ever got together with Muslim fundamentalists, they'd probably be incredibly surprised how much they have in common.

To me that's what's so ironic....that this war on terror is essentially a war between conservatives.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[python3 0]

OMG, that was a great post Miles .

Quote[/b] ]yet somehow they keep calling the Iraq occupation the frontline on the WAR ON TERROR

hehe, thats simple, all the terrorists are flocking there now to get some action against the troops.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Miles, I own the copyright to the all-caps WAR ON TERROR©, and I demand you remove it from your post!

[TexMex Leprechaun 0]

Quote[/b] ]Denoir already flattened him on this so I won´t push further

Yep, he sure did.

Quote[/b] ]As long as you pronounce CHIRAC as CHRIAC there are a lot of things to do...

And Mr. Smartman could you please explain to me how several major conflicts could have been solved without the UN ?

With US forces ? Hehe sorry, but you got no idea.

Sorry I am such a horrible person, had a typo, please forgive me, cmoe, oh wait another mistake! Heh, yes where th U.N. has went in there has always been great results, look how peaceful all the places are now! Yeahhaaa!

Quote[/b] ]Ohhhhhhh yes, the WMD´s...

Excuse me but where are they?

Where are the links to AQ ?

Where is the connection to Nigeria uranium contracts that have been proven to be a fake done by your own CIA.

No joke, this is proofable.

Like I said, I do not know if they have WMDs, but I do not care if they do or not. I think that Saddam was a danger enough to our saftey with out them to go in.

Quote[/b] ]m so sorry Mr Uninformed, but we activate our brain before we send our people to war without any reason like your government did. Can you name one reason that was listed as a justification for this war by YOUR government that has proven to be true ?

Can you ?

Do you think our intellegance agencies do know less than yours?

So how does it come that we in germany have taken people to court who were alleged with 9/11 while you , your country and your GBW government halted all investigations only 3 months later ?!?

The war on Iraq with the US/Brits reasons was far from being legitimate. No discussion here. No WMD´s have been found.

No threat has been found. No democracy has been installed. No freedom for people. No democracy, BUT Halliburton contracts.

You want to explain this to an old worthless UN trooper ?

Do so quick !

Come down man, never called the U.N. troops worthless, just the organization. It will take years for democracy to come to Iraq, they have never had it, if it even comes. I do not know whose goverment knows more, but I am not sure what you are talking about by stopping the investigation by the U.S., we are still looking for terrorist if thats what you mean.

Quote[/b] ]Heh ?

UN in a move without my knowledge ?

10 years or so ago Un was the same than it is today Mr. America.

Ok, then the 10 year old U.N. was worthless.

Quote[/b] ]To sum your last post up:

You don´t know anything about the Un. You don´tknow anything about the reasons to go to war.

You don´t know anything about the non- existing WMD´s in Iraq but you KNOW that you have to follow every word your president tells you.

I´m sorry. Even the CIA has pointed out that they had setup (or should I better say revived the Nigeria uranium conspiracy)

Yes sir just your average robot. Domo Arigato, is that spelled right?

Quote[/b] ]To sum it up once again:

The USA under G.W. Bush started an illegal war for false reasons.

Be happy to be US.

Join the war.

I will examine your grave someday.

An illegal war, I did not know war could be legal!

Quote[/b] ]TexMex... (fellow hispanic?), you shouldn't be talking about what you no nothing about.

France has never been our friend? When did this split in friendship happen? We've been economic competitors certainly but not anymore then with Britain or Germany. Foreign policy-wise generally we've stayed out of each other's way in modern history... well until now.

You may not want American to be in the UN, but many of your fellow Americans like myself truly believe that the United Nations is an extremely important international organization.

Certainly its had its fair share of problems and failures but no more then any other beauracracy. Many of the services they provide globally are incredibly vital. But sadly many Americans like yourself probably do not care at all about helping other nations unless it effects your pocketbook or its to kill "the bad guys". As I mentioned above in my last reply, typical "black and white", "Good vs. Evil" mentality of a conservative without even the slightest bit of thought going into looking at different perspectives including those of "the enemy".

As for Iraq giving away their WMD's, has it ever crossed your mind that Saddam had 12 years to give WMD's to terrorists???

Does it not come across as strange to you that in all the hordes of documents discovered in both Iraq and Afghanistan, nothing has shown any link between Al-Qaeda and Iraq?

If Saddam was going to provide WMD's to terrorists it almost certainly would have been to Hamas or Islamic Jihad in Israel. Both of those terrorist groups he openly supported as do most Muslim Middle East nations (including most of our Middle East allies like Saudi Arabia). Those groups may be terrorist groups but they are NOT Al-Qaeda.

It just boggles my mind how convinced some of you conservatives are that Saddam was on the brink of giving WMD's to terrorists. Based on WHAT evidence does is this belief based on exactly? Please inform me because I for one would be very interested in knowing.

Even the BUSH ADMINISTRATION has OPENLY ADMITTED now that there is NO link between Saddam and Al-Qaeda, yet somehow they keep calling the Iraq occupation the frontline on the WAR ON TERROR. That's such bullshit when it has nothing to do with the war on terror. Zip, zero, none, unless it was to help the Israelies get rid of one of their enemy's supporters. But Saddam is small potatoes compared to the enormous amounts of money that come from Saudi Arabia into the coffers of Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

My only guess is that it is just out of shere blind loyalty to President Bush that most conservatives in America can't seem to accept the evidence that is before them and instead want to believe that the occupation in Iraq is going to end with a great Middle East democracy where everyone will live in peace and harmony somehow... when instead everything is now pointing to the fact that without more security in Iraq and a VERY strong central government, Iraq will likely fall apart into civil war when we pull out. If we don't pull out our troops are symbolic of everything Muslims hate about America's foreign policy in the Middle East and thus are perfect targets for Jihad.

If the Iraqi government does what needs to be done in order to insure security, it would mean creating a feared secret police and creating a cell system within Iraq where everyone spied on each other. That was Saddam's key to survival. He rewarded snitches handsomely.

If a new Iraqi government uses the same tactics they will be no better then Saddam and will likely be voted out in favor of a weaker government with which armed militants will have a field day with. That's the risk of a democracy.

It can very easily turn into a "gun barrel democracy" where those groups with the most firepower determine the government.

As I stated before, we opened Pandora's box on what should have been left alone for Iraqis to sort out themselves.

Sure Saddam was a horribly brutal dictator, but guess what...such horrible tyrants abound all over the world. Our new friend Khaddaffi for example... he may be giving up WMD's but he's on of the worst human rights violators in the world with God only knows how many thousands or hundreds of thousands of murders under his belt.

Yet he does our bidding and so he's our new bestest buddy in the war on terror without a peep mentioned about his human rights record.

Then we wonder why the world sees America as the world's biggest hypocrit. Not that you care, but others might be interested in knowing that in Islam the hypocrit is the worst of all sinners and fit for death.

More and more America is fullfilling the stereotype that fundamentalist Muslims characterize America as... and that is a nation of hypocrits attacking and opressing Muslims all over the world... thus making Americans perfectly legit targets for holy war according to their religious beliefs.

The more we practice the Israeli style tactic of group punishment (that punishes guilty and innocent people together as one group) around the world, the more this impression of America waging war on Islam is going to be validated even amongst moderate Muslims when it comes to a point when they can not ignore it. At that point we will have a serious world war on our hands. It is also at that point that the American constitution may be cast aside in order to round up Muslims living in America in order to put them in detention camps just as we did to Japanese Americans during WWII. Only this time around, I don't think all Americans will go along with this policy.

Tex-Mex, rather then defending Bush's policies with emotion based arguments, try thinking for yourself and actually try to defend his policies with facts. I guarantee you that you won't find many facts that support Bush's policies.

But if you want to just continue to use emotion based arguements, then this debate will never go anywhere.

It's the same thing arguing with conservative Muslims.

They are exactly like American conservatives with strict interpretations of their religion, and with narrow black & white views of the world where they force everything into a narrow and stiff belief system...and then act angrily when anyone challenges that belief system with solid facts.

If Christian fundamentalists for example, ever got together with Muslim fundamentalists, they'd probably be incredibly surprised how much they have in common.

To me that's what's so ironic....that this war on terror is essentially a war between conservatives.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

No I am not spanish, just Texan, and I eat TexMex food.

Pretty much what I already typed responds to your post. Im a Christian, an I can tell you a strong Christian is nothing like a strong Muslim, Islam preaches something totally different than Christianity, but why get on to religion?

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Quote[/b] ]No I am not spanish, just Texan, and I eat TexMex food.

Pretty much what I already typed responds to your post. Im a Christian, an I can tell you a strong Christian is nothing like a strong Muslim, Islam preaches something totally different than Christianity, but why get on to religion?

I disagree. Since I don't observe any religion, I can take a fairly objective stance when comparing religions, and as far as I can see, Islam and Christianity are remarkably similar, considering their relative ages (keep in mind that Islam is several hundred years younger than Christianity). I won't go into a side by side comparison of the two, seeing how far offtopic it would be, but suffice it to say that it is a combination of the similar tenets shared by all three of the Judeo-Christian religions (yes, Islam's in there too), and the fact that, whether they wear turbans or baseball caps, people generally function in the same ways.

[ozanzac 0]

Quote[/b] ]Like I said, I do not know if they have WMDs, but I do not care if they do or not. I think that Saddam was a danger enough to our saftey with out them to go in.

That really is one of the stupidest comments I've ever seen.

You admit you know shit all about why you went to war, yet you beleive America was justified in starting it up.

You live on opposite ends of the world. If ever Iraq had the ability to threaten you on your home soil, you blew it away in Gulf War One. He was no threat to you. He was no longer even a threat to his neighbours. How can you justify he was a threat to your national security? He might have had WMD's. You can't go to war for that. Thats like shooting someone who you think has a gun, even though he's not pointing it at you, and then searching the body afterwards. That's murder. Murder is criminal, and so was this war.

[TexMex Leprechaun 0]

Quote[/b] ] disagree. Since I don't observe any religion, I can take a fairly objective stance when comparing religions, and as far as I can see, Islam and Christianity are remarkably similar, considering their relative ages (keep in mind that Islam is several hundred years younger than Christianity). I won't go into a side by side comparison of the two, seeing how far offtopic it would be, but suffice it to say that it is a combination of the similar tenets shared by all three of the Judeo-Christian religions (yes, Islam's in there too), and the fact that, whether they wear turbans or baseball caps, people generally function in the same ways.

I disagree with you there but I guess I have to disagree with you so that you could disagree with me. Yeah people function pretty much the same except when the blow themselves up to kill innocent people.

[denoir 0]

Yeah people function pretty much the same except when the blow themselves up to kill innocnet people.

That's not Islam. It's as much Islam as the Ku Klux Klan is Christianity.

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are very similar. The basic moral code is virtually the same.

[python3 0]

funny how out of 1.3 billion people, you choose to categorize the thousand or so that choose to do those things, as a "strong muslim". Well, i mean, God sure has blessed you with much knowledge and incredible abilities. I mean, you can translate arabic, you seem to read and undertsand the Quran much better that 21% of the worlds population. I mean, im impressed man. You seem to know so much about Islam. Maybe then you would like to explain why it has one of the highest conversion rates in the US. Particularly after 9/11. Hmm, maybe they were brainwashed or just thirsty for blood.

[TexMex Leprechaun 0]

Quote[/b] ]That really is one of the stupidest comments I've ever seen.

I never claimed to be smart, it was Balschoiw who called me Mr.Smart.

Quote[/b] ]You admit you know shit all about why you went to war, yet you beleive America was justified in starting it up.

You live on opposite ends of the world. If ever Iraq had the ability to threaten you on your home soil, you blew it away in Gulf War One. He was no threat to you. He was no longer even a threat to his neighbours. How can you justify he was a threat to your national security? He might have had WMD's. You can't go to war for that. Thats like shooting someone who you think has a gun, even though he's not pointing it at you, and then searching the body afterwards. That's murder. Murder is criminal, and so was this war.

No, I think Saddam had th ability to get chemical wepons, and would have given them to anybody to use against America. I guess it does not matter what I say even if it is justified to me, I can never justify it to you.

[TexMex Leprechaun 0]

Quote[/b] ]That's not Islam. It's as much Islam as the Ku Klux Klan is Christianity.

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are very similar. The basic moral code is virtually the same.

Not so sure about that. Judiams and Christianity are close, obviously, but Islam is not, at least the New Testament does not tell us to go and kill others who are not Christians.

Quote[/b] ]funny how out of 1.3 billion people, you choose to categorize the thousand or so that choose to do those things, as a "strong muslim". Well, i mean, God sure has blessed you with much knowledge and incredible abilities. I mean, you can translate arabic, you seem to read and undertsand the Quran much better that 21% of the worlds population. I mean, im impressed man. You seem to know so much about Islam. Maybe then you would like to explain why it has one of the highest conversion rates in the US. Particularly after 9/11. Hmm, maybe they were brainwashed or just thirsty for blood.

I said 1.3 billion people were strong muslims, where? I can speak arabic?! Awsome, gonna make me so money! May I see the figures about it having the highest conversion rate? When a baby is born into a islamic family it automatically becomes a Muslim.

[ozanzac 0]

Quote[/b] ]That really is one of the stupidest comments I've ever seen.

I never claimed to be smart, it was Balschoiw who called me Mr.Smart.

No, I think Saddam had th ability to get chemical wepons, and would have given them to anybody to use against America. I guess it does not matter what I say even if it is justified to me, I can never justify it to you.

OK, I'll call you 'Mr. Typical Ignorant American' who can't think logically and won't question the actions of his government. And don't forget, ignorance is a form of stupidity.

[python3 0]

boy, i see we are not too quick. I am stating a fact that 1.3 billion people are muslim. I never said you stated that fact. I did say however that the few thousand people that are willing to blow themselves up, out of 1.3 billion, are "strong muslims" to you.

As to speaking arabic, you seem to do such a good job of believeing what every website on the internet says about quranic translation, i just thought maybe you were fluent in arabic.

Quote[/b] ]When a baby is born into a islamic family it automatically becomes a Muslim.

whats ur point?

woops, almost forgot, i never said the highest, i said one of the highest, Sure thing i will post it. Just gimme a bit.

ah, here we go: here is one site, if u need a link to it, just ask. ill post others as i come across them.

Quote[/b] ]Converts

 

As one of the fastest-growing religions in the U.S., Islam is attracting large numbers of converts in this country. While the largest percentage of converts are African Americans, Muslim converts span all racial, ethnic and gender groups.

A survey of U.S. mosques found that those mosques had a combined total of about 20,000 converts to Islam in 2000. Of these, about 13,000 were men and 7,000 were women. Nearly 14,000 were African Americans, 4,000 were white, and about 1,200 were Latino. There were no statistics on Asian Americans. The study, “The Mosque in America: A National Portrait,†was conducted by the Hartford Seminary’s Hartford Institute for Religious Research and cosponsored by four Muslim American organizations.

man, i just keep editing this post. here is one about after 9/11: Islmaic Conversions

[denoir 0]

Quote[/b] ]That's not Islam. It's as much Islam as the Ku Klux Klan is Christianity.

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are very similar. The basic moral code is virtually the same.

Not so sure about that. Judiams and Christianity are close, obviously, but Islam is not, at least the New Testament does not tell us to go and kill others who are not Christians.

Neither does the Quran. The quotes that you posted with your other account (Pick Axe) were easily verified to be wrong (as shown in the Mid East thread).

Do you have anything substantial to come with or do you just like continuing to post bigoted prejudices?

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Quote[/b] ]That really is one of the stupidest comments I've ever seen.

I never claimed to be smart, it was Balschoiw who called me Mr.Smart.

No, I think Saddam had th ability to get chemical wepons, and would have given them to anybody to use against America. I guess it does not matter what I say even if it is justified to me, I can never justify it to you.

OK, I'll call you 'Mr. Typical Ignorant American' who can't think logically and won't question the actions of his government. And don't forget, ignorance is a form of stupidity.

And stupidity is a worldwide phenomenon (I really need to get that one copyrighted too). As for Mr. Typical Ignorant American, I resemble that remark

[python3 0]

oops, i must apologize to you for that whole knowing arabic thing TexMex Leprechaun. After reading denoir's post i realized that i was speaking about our other friend Mr. Pick axe. woops

[TexMex Leprechaun 0]

Quote[/b] ]OK, I'll call you 'Mr. Typical Ignorant American' who can't think logically and won't question the actions of his government. And don't forget, ignorance is a form of stupidity.

May be ignorant, but I never have trusted the goverment very much.

Quote[/b] ]boy, i see we are not too quick. I am stating a fact that 1.3 billion people are muslim. I never said you stated that fact. I did say however that the few thousand people that are willing to blow themselves up, out of 1.3 billion, are "strong muslims" to you.

I apologize I did not read your post very well, sorry.

Quote[/b] ]whats ur point?

Counts for more muslims, but probably not conversions. thanks for the link.

Quote[/b] ]Neither does the Quran. The quotes that you posted with your other account (Pick Axe) were easily verified to be wrong (as shown in the Mid East thread).

Do you have anything substantial to come with or do you just like continuing to post bigoted prejudices?

First off, Im not Pick Axe, besides what would be the point? I would just get banned for having multiple accounts and would have to log out of one to post in the other. Sorry but Mr.Axe is a different fellow. I read somewhere where the Koran did tell to kill non muslims, also had a former muslims talk to us at church, do not think the religion is a peaceful as some might say.

Quote[/b] ]oops, i must apologize to you for that whole knowing arabic thing TexMex Leprechaun. After reading denoir's post i realized that i was speaking about our other friend Mr. Pick axe. woops

I miss quoted what you said too, guess I am a dumb American.

[denoir 0]

First off, Im not Pick Axe, besides what would be the point? I would just get banned for having multiple accounts and would have to log out of one to post in the other.

Sure, Duke of Ray, sure  

[Longinius 1]

Quote[/b] ]I read somewhere where the Koran did tell to kill non muslims, also had a former muslims talk to us at church, do not think the religion is a peaceful as some might say.

Based on your ignorance on other issues, I doubt you are aware of the fact that Christians had a period where they killed anyone who wasnt Christian or Converted. This was called the Crusades, and the soldiers that fought during the crusades fought in name of Christ and Christianity.

So you see, scripture has nothing to do with the actions of men.

[ran 0]

Quote[/b] ]I read somewhere where the Koran did tell to kill non muslims, also had a former muslims talk to us at church, do not think the religion is a peaceful as some might say.

Based on your ignorance on other issues, I doubt you are aware of the fact that Christians had a period where they killed anyone who wasnt Christian or Converted. This was called the Crusades, and the soldiers that fought during the crusades fought in name of Christ and Christianity.

So you see, scripture has nothing to do with the actions of men.

Crusades , Inquisition , relgion wars .. etc etc etc

[Longinius 1]

Quote[/b] ]Crusades , Inquisition , relgion wars .. etc etc etc

Yes. These things alone would make Christianity the most violent of all religions out there. And then we havent even considered the Christening of pagan regions, like the Nordic Area for example.

[EiZei 0]

Or getting killed for being a catholic in a protestant country and vice-versa..

[ran 0]

persecutions , forced converssions by missions oversea ..... etc etc etc

[toadlife 3]

Blaming belief systems for the violence people commit is like blaming food for obesity.

In the last few pages of this thread I have not seem much substantive debate - Just a lump of hubris sprinkled with contempt.