Tex -USMC- 0 Posted March 25, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hit_Sqd_Maximus @ Mar. 25 2003,05:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">That is why texas is one of 2 states in the union that can fly its flag higher than the US flag  <span id='postcolor'> Not higher- just as high. And only when there is more than one flagpole. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralphwiggum 6 Posted March 25, 2003 huh? where's Chechenya? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tex -USMC- 0 Posted March 25, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Mar. 25 2003,05:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">huh? where's Chechenya?<span id='postcolor'> I... guess we reached a consensus? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tovarish 0 Posted March 25, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Mar. 25 2003,05:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">huh? where's Chechenya?<span id='postcolor'> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralphwiggum 6 Posted March 25, 2003 eh hem! *points to thread title Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brgnorway 0 Posted March 25, 2003 ...aahhh, speaking of which - in 2005 we will celebrate our 100th year of independence here in Norway, which also was a result of a vote on independence. That glorious day we finally got rid of the frenchspeaking swedish bastard of a king. The less than glorious swedes did not dare to fight the poorly equiped but much braver norwegian soldiers hehe - which incidently caused the swedes to suffer from a major phsycological trauma of being inferior to their neighbours (hm..wonder if this causes Denoir to jinx ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Balschoiw 0 Posted March 25, 2003 the vote was heavily influenced by military forces at the election places. They told the voters that they will visit them if they don´t vote the right way. International observers already claimed that the vote was heavily influenced by russian forces. Another funny detail. Only russian people counted the election sheets. Makes you wonder why the result is that way... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted March 25, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ Mar. 25 2003,13:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the vote was heavily influenced by military forces at the election places. They told the voters that they will visit them if they don´t vote the right way. International observers already claimed that the vote was heavily influenced by russian forces. Another funny detail. Only russian people counted the election sheets. Makes you wonder why the result is that way... <span id='postcolor'> Sources? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Balschoiw 0 Posted March 25, 2003 here you go doubtfull lady http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2003/03/12/014.html I have seen a report on TV stating the presence of military forces at the vote bureaus wich will off course not influence the voters, nor it was intended... It´s very clear that this vote has nothing to do with the public will. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted March 25, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ Mar. 25 2003,13:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">here you go doubtfull lady  http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2003/03/12/014.html<span id='postcolor'> Well, I went to the OSCE's site to see if they had reported any such accusations. Not yet but of course, we'll have to wait for the fact finding team to pay a visit. Nevertheless, even though your Moscow Times article has such a spectacular headline, the text says it's quite debatable. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have seen a report on TV stating the presence of military forces at the vote bureaus wich will off course not influence the voters, nor it was intended...<span id='postcolor'> Were ballots cast away from prying eyes? If yes, then what difference could this make? Could it be that military presence was necessary to assure order when the opposition has been known to use any means to achieve their goals? </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It´s very clear that this vote has nothing to do with the public will.<span id='postcolor'> So far, from what you've presented, nothing to substantiate that point is clear. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tovarish 0 Posted March 25, 2003 Personally I don't see any benefit to the Russian government by rigging this vote. After the appartment bombings that followed the end of the first war, Russian troops are very unlikely to leave the country to the fundamentalists anyhow. All the critizism from the US government stopped after 9\11 when they got a taste of the same sort of attack, so why bother with rigged elections? The war isn't amazingly popular with Russian troops fighting there, but back at home, a good number of people want to see that place bombed to hell and back, so no need to convince the Russian public either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tales_From_Topographic_Oceans 0 Posted March 25, 2003 there ain't nothing we Confederate Southerners like more, ice tea and an ordinance of secession! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PitViper 0 Posted March 25, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ Mar. 24 2003,21:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hit_Sqd_Maximus @ Mar. 25 2003,03:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">russia has occupied chechnya for over 100 years?<span id='postcolor'> Question. Do you think the US is occupying California?<span id='postcolor'> Ask some Mexicans Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tovarish 0 Posted March 25, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ Mar. 25 2003,22:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ Mar. 24 2003,21:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hit_Sqd_Maximus @ Mar. 25 2003,03:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">russia has occupied chechnya for over 100 years?<span id='postcolor'> Question. Do you think the US is occupying California?<span id='postcolor'> Ask some Mexicans <span id='postcolor'> I talk to Mexicans pretty often, which is why I brought the point up Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PFC Mongoose 0 Posted March 26, 2003 Well, they didn't get British Colombia..... ....so, 100+ years later, they're torturing us with tariffs on softwood lumber. As far as Chechnya goes.... that map has been very useful. Hehe... I've heard a lot about the conflict, but didn't know where the place was. Well, I knew it was near Georgia, but still. Well, if the Kurd in Northern IRaq try to get independence, then so might the Kurds in sothern Turkey, and that might make the Chechnyans flare up, and of course, the Quebecois.... ...who, might I add, are french (see sig. ) j/k, I really don't have anything against the French, just the Quebecois. Hahahahaha j/k, j/k Ralph's probably getting ready to push the Big Red Ban Buttons... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Balschoiw 0 Posted March 26, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So far, from what you've presented, nothing to substantiate that point is clear. <span id='postcolor'> Come on Avon. Even you should have a feeling for what you see on TV and read in the news. Several independant vote-watch organisations claimed that this vote had to be done under direct pressure of russina forces. Doesn´t it worry you a bit that armed russian forces were at the bureaus. Not only outside, but also inside and the votes have been counted by russians ?` You´re right OSCE is currently checking the reports they get from their local controllers but it also were OSCE controllers in Chechnia that brought the military pressure under wich this vote has taken place to public. Aren´t you a bit surprised by the high percentage ? It looks very much like a typical russian vote from 10 - 20 years back. But again you don´t see anything dubiouse ? Come on Avon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted March 26, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ Mar. 26 2003,14:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Come on Avon. Even you should have a feeling for what you see on TV and read in the news.<span id='postcolor'> Well, in the case of this particular referendum, it still doesn't appear the way you're suggesting. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Several independant vote-watch organisations claimed that this vote had to be done under direct pressure of russina forces. Doesn´t it worry you a bit that armed russian forces were at the bureaus.<span id='postcolor'> If these elections were in Switzerland, then yes. In Chechnya?! I would be surprised otherwise and fear for a lot worse intimidation by a terrorist minority who wouldn't stop at handing out flyers. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Not only outside, but also inside and the votes have been counted by russians?<span id='postcolor'> By Russians alone? No serious amount of Chechnyans at all? Obviously, if this is true, it would be a farce. Till this time, however, I don't see anyone screaming about that. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You´re right OSCE is currently checking the reports they get from their local controllers but it also were OSCE controllers in Chechnia that brought the military pressure under wich this vote has taken place to public.<span id='postcolor'> So, rather than speculate, let's see what the OSCE's fact finding trip comes up with. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Aren´t you a bit surprised by the high percentage?<span id='postcolor'> Actually not. Indeed it may come from resignation but that's still a very practical and legitimate feeling to vote for autonomy, as some citizens were quoted as saying in the published news articles. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It looks very much like a typical russian vote from 10 - 20 years back. But again you don´t see anything dubiouse ? Come on Avon.<span id='postcolor'> Since this news item is taking a back-burner to slighter bigger news from further down south, I can only judge on what I'm seeing and reading. With that in mind, what you're saying might wind up being 100% true but it's highly speculative at this point in time. Furthermore, as above, I don't agree with your assumptions of instant suspicion, based on things like an 4/1 ratio, under such circumstances. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foxer 0 Posted March 26, 2003 California is kinda like mexico.There's tons of mexicans living in and around south west america,nothing wrong with that.We don't call south florida, Â north cuba for no reason. --edit Don't forget about them canadains coming from the north. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PFC Mongoose 0 Posted March 26, 2003 I don't have any numbers to back it up; but I think it quite likely more Americans emigrate to Canada than Canadians emigrate to America. Canada has a fairly low emigration rate, and an extremely high immigration rate. I think we're one of the most immigration-dependant countries around. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tovarish 0 Posted March 26, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PFC Mongoose @ Mar. 26 2003,23:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't have any numbers to back it up; but I think it quite likely more Americans emigrate to Canada than Canadians emigrate to America. Â <span id='postcolor'> Gotta disagree with you on that. Ever hear of the "brain drain"? Hell, I've thought about it once or twice, but I think I'm finally getting used to the winters here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted April 3, 2003 Back to square one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
N.o.R.S.u 0 Posted April 3, 2003 It's so sad, I hope these events don't start the war again in its full scale. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tovarish 0 Posted April 3, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 03 2003,22:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Back to square one.<span id='postcolor'> I was expecting just as much, like I've said, there is zero chance that the rebels will be allowed to participate in any Chechen government recognized by Russia, After the appartment bombings and the Theatre crisis, Putin simply refuses to hold talks with them. The fundamentalists have screwed themselves out of any chance of being part of an independent or autonomous Chechnya. The appartment bombings and attempted invasion of Dagestan after Russia withdrew from the first war have shown the Russians that they cannot be left in power. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It's so sad, I hope these events don't start the war again in its full scale. <span id='postcolor'> What do you consider "full scale"? Fighting has never really stopped,it's just that Western media coverage and critisism of said fighting did after 9/11. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted May 12, 2003 Boom I've heard the death toll may be at least double that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
9mm 0 Posted May 12, 2003 Just another neverending conflict... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
