Weapon standards!

[Guest ####]

I've been trying to find something at ofpec.com and else where with listed damage values for the origional weapons, then I might be able to figure out a few equations people can use to figure out damage, blast radius and armour values. That way if they use them they will be insync with the other vehicles and weapons in game. Does anyone know where I can find listings for armour and damage?

[DragoFire 0]

Sorry Eviscerator for using your post as a referance again.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Eviscerator;

Also, i dont think the BIS LGB damage values are actually for a 2000lb bomb, it doesnt make sense if a FFAR with a 10lb (or so) warhead has 750 damage and a 500lb bomb has 1250, i think BIS' LGB is simulated after a 500lb bomb, one big giveaway is that it has the model of a mk82, also the other damage values point to this (like the maverick with a, i think, 160 or so lb warhead doing 1900 damage).

<span id='postcolor'>

500lbs MK_82 which the GBU-12 also uses as it's warhead is 89kg(192lbs), correct? Yes!

A Hydra 2.75in rocket has a 4.44kg(10lbs) warhead. And as per quote would be too powerful based. But what I've found is BIS did do something wrong, but not the damage, but the AMMOCOUNT.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Eviscerator;

Also BIS' FFAR's are the 2.75" versions, not the 5" Zuni's as they are called in the cpp, i dont believe you can get the zuni's in 19 shot rocket pods as they are too big/heavy

<span id='postcolor'>

Yes the Hydra 2.75in(70mm) is the only rocket pod that holds 19 rockets. But in NAM the Zuni were mounted on racks of ether 12 (3 rows of 4 rockets) or 21(3 rows of 7 rockets).

Now days the 4 rocket pod is more common, than the Rack, but the UH/EH-60A, HH-60A and UH-1 still have these Rack options available. The only BIG 81mm Pod I found was a option for the H-76 Eagle which had a option of a 12 or 7 rocket pod.

Referance source;

Modern Fighting Helicopters by Tiger print.

FAS plus a few other links.

The reason I think the damage is almost right(maybe a little bit too high still) is a Zuni rocket has a warhead of 20kg(45lbs), and by what Eviscerator had said two Zuni rockets have the total of 40kg(95lbs) of explosive warhead. So what is needed is ether to reduce the damage for the Zuni or increase the damage for the Mk-82 and there by all other bombs.

We also have to change the AMMOCOUNT for the Zuni and decrease the damage for the Hydra, as both are incorrect.

Once I've worked out a bit more I'll put some code up for you all to look at and test.

Thus far;

weapon warhead weight

hydra rocket 10lbs

zuni rocket 45lbs/20kg

shrike missile 142lbs/63kg

mavrick missile 125lbs/56.25kg(BIS version) or 300lbs/135kg

harpoon missile(al) 488lbs/216.88kg

mk-82 gp bomb 192lbs/89kg

mk-83 gp bomb 385lbs/202kg

mk-84 gp bomb 945lbs/420kg

m61 grenade 5.5oz/0.154kg

m67 grenade 6.5oz/0.182kg

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">####;

I've been trying to find something at ofpec.com and else where with listed damage values for the origional weapons, then I might be able to figure out a few equations people can use to figure out damage, blast radius and armour values. That way if they use them they will be insync with the other vehicles and weapons in game. Does anyone know where I can find listings for armour and damage?<span id='postcolor'>

I've got the latest CPP of BIS thanks to LoneWolf.

I'm finding it a little hard calulating out how BIS does their armor damage also.

I think this will be the part that takes the longest to sort out.

DragoFire

P.S.

sorry again Eviscerator for picking on your post

[mooncaine 0]

Great to see, DragoFire. Please keep us posted on weapon values.

I sure would like to see some discussion of standards other than weapons, too, though. I see wildly different and unrealistic values in some addons. Not that that's bad, but the current system of hidden values, binarized into an unopenable addon, really muddies the waters for those interested in either realistic sims or fair gameplay.

I dl'd two different WWII Sherman tanks, for example, and one of them reloads its main gun faster than any tank I've played yet, even a Russian modern MBT with an autoloader [and, anyway, are autoloaders faster than human ones? I assumed that just now, I see].

[DragoFire 0]

Last night finished values for a few missiles(mavrick's, harpoon, shrike, etc...) and bombs(dumb and smart) versions.

Will put a post up later today with the CPP AMMOCFG codes, along  with pistol, rifle, smg, mg and grenades.

If possible I'll might be able to put up some other stuff related!

DragoFire

hint;

Bombs do LOTS of damage  you'll see later today.

[Eviscerator 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DragoFire @ Feb. 25 2003,04:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sorry Eviscerator for using your post as a referance again.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Eviscerator;

Also, i dont think the BIS LGB damage values are actually for a 2000lb bomb, it doesnt make sense if a FFAR with a 10lb (or so) warhead has 750 damage and a 500lb bomb has 1250, i think BIS' LGB is simulated after a 500lb bomb, one big giveaway is that it has the model of a mk82, also the other damage values point to this (like the maverick with a, i think, 160 or so lb warhead doing 1900 damage).

<span id='postcolor'>

500lbs MK_82 which the GBU-12 also uses as it's warhead is 89kg(192lbs), correct? Yes!

A Hydra 2.75in rocket has a 4.44kg(10lbs) warhead. And as per quote would be too powerful based. But what I've found is BIS did do something wrong, but not the damage, but the AMMOCOUNT.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Eviscerator;

Also BIS' FFAR's are the 2.75" versions, not the 5" Zuni's as they are called in the cpp, i dont believe you can get the zuni's in 19 shot rocket pods as they are too big/heavy

<span id='postcolor'>

Yes the Hydra 2.75in(70mm) is the only rocket pod that holds 19 rockets. But in NAM the Zuni were mounted on racks of ether 12 (3 rows of 4 rockets) or 21(3 rows of 7 rockets).

Now days the 4 rocket pod is more common, than the Rack, but the UH/EH-60A, HH-60A and UH-1 still have these Rack options available. The only BIG 81mm Pod I found was a option for the H-76 Eagle which had a option of a 12 or 7 rocket pod.

Referance source;

Modern Fighting Helicopters by Tiger print.

FAS plus a few other links.

The reason I think the damage is almost right(maybe a little bit too high still) is a Zuni rocket has a warhead of 20kg(45lbs), and by what Eviscerator had said two Zuni rockets have the total of 40kg(95lbs) of explosive warhead. So what is needed is ether to reduce the damage for the Zuni or increase the damage for the Mk-82 and there by all other bombs.

We also have to change the AMMOCOUNT for the Zuni and decrease the damage for the Hydra, as both are incorrect.

Once I've worked out a bit more I'll put some code up for you all to look at and test.

Thus far;

weapon                warhead weight

hydra rocket          10lbs

zuni rocket           45lbs/20kg

shrike missile        142lbs/63kg

mavrick missile       125lbs/56.25kg(BIS version) or 300lbs/135kg

harpoon missile(al)   488lbs/216.88kg

mk-82 gp bomb         192lbs/89kg

mk-83 gp bomb         385lbs/202kg

mk-84 gp bomb         945lbs/420kg

m61 grenade           5.5oz/0.154kg

m67 grenade           6.5oz/0.182kg

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">####;

I've been trying to find something at ofpec.com and else where with listed damage values for the origional weapons, then I might be able to figure out a few equations people can use to figure out damage, blast radius and armour values. That way if they use them they will be insync with the other vehicles and weapons in game. Does anyone know where I can find listings for armour and damage?<span id='postcolor'>

I've got the latest CPP of BIS thanks to LoneWolf.

I'm finding it a little hard calulating out how BIS does their armor damage also.

I think this will be the part that takes the longest to sort out.

DragoFire

P.S.

sorry again Eviscerator for picking on your post <span id='postcolor'>

ok, no problem about using my post, but from looking at all the posts here, mine and yours there seems to be a big problem, there are major differences in some bis weapons between what they look like and what they act like, the damage seems to fit what they look like but not what they are named...

For example:

Hydra vs Zuni:

For: The numbers match, where they are placed match (Kiowa, Cobra, Blackhawk etc), the damage correlates with the satchel charge (a 10lb charge compared to a 95lb of the zuni), the model matches.

Against: The names are wrong.

Mk82 vs GBU-24:

For: The name of the model matches, the model matches, and the damage value doesnt correlate with a 2000lb bomb compared to other weapons.

Against: Name, Function.

From my point of view i think using 5000 damage as a point to start from works well, then a 750lb bomb would be 7500 and so on, even the number matches 10 damages points per pound and so on...

[DragoFire 0]

Just wait till I post later tonight and you'll see how it works.

DragoFire

[Guest ####]

remember that some of those bombs and missles have different warhaed types. FFAR's have a HE (high explocive) warhead where as the Maverick has a HEAT (high explocive anti-tank warhead). HE rounds are ment for area effect and attacking softer targets, the HEAT is a shaped charge warhead and channels the energy from the explosion in a more focused area so it has better armour penetration qualities. Also remember that a bombs wieght is not nessearily the actual wieght, it is the explocive force in KG of TNT, like a nuke with a 10MT (Mega Tonne) warhead has the explocive equivilant of 10 million metric tonnes of TNT, not that the warhead wieghts that much. Most modern munnitions use more advance explocives than TNT, C4, C3 and RDX have more energy output potencial than TNT per weight.

Now the damage values may reflect the warhead type. A HEAT round capable of destroying a tank in one shot is much lighter than say a HE round. A 2000lb'r will destroy a tank, infact it usually will flip it over if it hits very close to it, this happened to a Northern alliance T55 during the Kandahar prison uprising when the Yanks dropped a 2000lb'r and hit the tank instead of a Taliban prison bunker, the result was an over turned T55 and a big crater. Now a HEAT round because the energy is focused has better penetration therefore higher damage according to their calculation, but the indirect damage would be less as the blast area is greatly smaller.

[DragoFire 0]

Ok here's what I've got, what I need is to get a few of you to test these setting.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">class CfgAmmo

{

access=1;

class Default

{

access=3;

hit=0;

indirectHit=0;

indirectHitRange=1;

minRange=0.500000;

minRangeProbab=0.500000;

midRange=100;

midRangeProbab=0.800000;

maxRange=450;

maxRangeProbab=0.050000;

model="";

proxyShape="";

simulation="";

cost=0;

maxSpeed=0;

cartridge="";

simulationStep=0.050000;

tracerColor[]={0.700000,0.700000,0.500000,0.040000};

tracerColorR[]={0.700000,0.700000,0.500000,0.040000};

soundFly[]={"",1,1};

soundEngine[]={"",1,1};

soundHit[]={"",1,1};

hitGround[]={"soundHit",1};

hitMan[]={"soundHit",1};

hitArmor[]={"soundHit",1};

hitBuilding[]={"soundHit",1};

explosive=1;

irLock=0;

airLock=0;

laserLock=0;

manualControl=0;

maxControlRange=350;

maneuvrability=1.000000;

sideAirFriction=1;

visibleFire=0;

audibleFire=0;

visibleFireTime=0;

initTime=0;

thrustTime=1.500000;

thrust=210;

};

class AT3: Default

{

hit=500;

indirectHit=150;

indirectHitRange=2.500000;

minRange=30;

minRangeProbab=0.500000;

midRange=200;

midRangeProbab=0.950000;

maxRange=500;

maxRangeProbab=0.300000;

model="AT1";

simulation="shotMissile";

simulationStep=0.010000;

cost=10000;

soundHit[]={"Explosions\explosion_at3",100.000008,1};

soundFly[]={"weapons\rocketflying",0.010000,2};

soundEngine[]={"objects\noise",0.001000,1};

maxSpeed=200;

irLock=1;

manualControl=1;

maxControlRange=250;

initTime=0.150000;

thrustTime=2.500000;

thrust=350;

maneuvrability=3.000000;

visibleFire=32;

audibleFire=32;

visibleFireTime=20;

};

class CarlGustav: AT3

{

hit=800;

indirectHit=200;

indirectHitRange=2.500000;

minRange=20;

minRangeProbab=0.500000;

midRange=150;

midRangeProbab=0.950000;

maxRange=600;

maxRangeProbab=0.100000;

model="LAW";

simulation="shotMissile";

cost=5000;

soundHit[]={"Explosions\explosion_at3",31.622778,1};

soundFly[]={"weapons\rocketflying",0.010000,2};

maxSpeed=200;

irLock=1;

manualControl=1;

maxControlRange=200;

initTime=0;

thrustTime=1.500000;

thrust=300;

maneuvrability=1.000000;

};

class AA: CarlGustav

{

hit=400;

indirectHit=150;

indirectHitRange=2;

minRange=50;

minRangeProbab=0.500000;

midRange=400;

midRangeProbab=0.950000;

maxRange=1200;

maxRangeProbab=0.300000;

airLock=1;

cost=20000;

manualControl=0;

maxControlRange=1000;

maxSpeed=350;

thrustTime=3.000000;

thrust=1000;

maneuvrability=4.000000;

};

class AIM_7: AA // Sparrow

{

hit=1239;

indirectHit=531;

indirectHitRange=4.5;

maxSpeed=1750;

midRange=2000;

midRangeProbab=0.950000;

maxRange=6000;

maxRangeProbab=0.300000;

};

class AIM_9H: AA // Sidewinder

{

hit=795.2;

indirectHit=340.8;

indirectHitRange=4.5;

maxSpeed=2750;

midRange=4000;

midRangeProbab=0.950000;

maxRange=12000;

maxRangeProbab=0.300000;

};

class AIM_9LM: AIM_9H // Sidewinder models L & M

{

hit=661.5;

indirectHit=283.5;

indirectHitRange=3;

maneuvrability=2.000000; // better than the AIM_9H

};

class AIM_54: AA // Phoenix

{

hit=1932;

indirectHit=828;

indirectHitRange=5;

maxSpeed=4800;

midRange=14000;

midRangeProbab=0.950000;

maxRange=20000;

maxRangeProbab=0.300000;

model="";

proxyShape="";

};

class AIM_120: AA // AMRAAM Slammer

{

hit=1239;

indirectHit=531;

indirectHitRange=4.5;

maxSpeed=3800;

midRange=14000;

midRangeProbab=0.950000;

maxRange=20000;

maxRangeProbab=0.300000;

model="";

proxyShape="";

};

class AIM_132: AA // ASRAAM

{

hit=154;

indirectHit=66;

indirectHitRange=6;

maxSpeed=1500;

midRange=4000;

midRangeProbab=0.950000;

maxRange=8000;

maxRangeProbab=0.300000;

};

class FIM_922: AA // Stinger

{

hit=156;

indirectHit=66;

indirectHitRange=6;

maxSpeed=3800;

midRange=7000;

midRangeProbab=0.950000;

maxRange=15000;

maxRangeProbab=0.300000;

model="";

proxyShape="";

};

class Hellfire: AT3

{

hit=900;

indirectHit=600;

indirectHitRange=2.500000;

minRange=50;

minRangeProbab=0.500000;

midRange=300;

midRangeProbab=0.950000;

maxRange=1500;

maxRangeProbab=0.500000;

maxSpeed=350;

soundHit[]={"Explosions\explosion_at3",100.000008,1};

cost=20000;

model="TOW";

irLock=1;

laserLock=1;

manualControl=0;

maxControlRange=100000;

maneuvrability=20.000000;

initTime=0.150000;

thrustTime=5.500000;

thrust=1200;

};

class HellfireApach: Hellfire

{

model="\Apac\hellfire";

proxyShape="\Apac\Hellfire_proxy";

};

class Zuni: Hellfire // 5inch rocket

{

hit=700;

indirectHit=300;

indirectHitRange=10;

minRange=50;

minRangeProbab=0.200000;

midRange=250;

midRangeProbab=0.200000;

maxRange=1000;

maxRangeProbab=0.050000;

maxSpeed=1500;

simulation="shotRocket";

simulationStep=0.050000;

cost=2000;

soundHit[]={"Explosions\expl1",100.000008,1};

model="ZUNI";

irLock=0;

airLock=1;

laserLock=0;

manualControl=0;

maneuvrability=0.000000;

maxControlRange=0;

initTime=0.050000;

thrustTime=1.500000;

thrust=500;

};

class Hydra: Zuni // 2_75inch rocket

{

soundHit[]={"Explosions\expl2",100.000008,1};

hit=154;

indirectHit=66;

indirectHitRange=10;

thrustTime=1.00000;

thrust=500;

airLock=0;

};

class AGM_65AB: Hellfire // Air Force Maverick models A,B

{

hit=1967;

indirectHit=843;

indirectHitRange=2.500000;

model="Maverik";

minRange=200;

minRangeProbab=0.300000;

midRange=6000;

midRangeProbab=0.800000;

maxRange=10000;

maxRangeProbab=0.500000;

thrust=700;

laserLock=0;

irLock=0;

maxSpeed=1150;

proxyShape="Maverik_proxy";

};

class AGM_65D: AGM_65 // Air Force Maverick model D

{

irLock=1;

};

class AGM_65E: AGM_65 // Marine Corp Maverick model E

{

laserLock=1;

};

class AGM_65GF: AGM_65 // Air Force Maverick model G & NAVY model F

{

irLock=1;

hit=4725;

indirectHit=2025;

indirectHitRange=4.500000;

};

class AGM_45A: AGM_65 // Shrike model A

{

hit=2205;

indirectHit=945;

indirectHitRange=3;

model="\DrF_Intruder\AGM_45";

minRange=200;

minRangeProbab=0.300000;

midRange=6000;

midRangeProbab=0.800000;

maxRange=10000;

maxRangeProbab=0.500000;

thrust=700;

laserLock=0;

irLock=1;

maxSpeed=2150;

proxyShape="\DrF_Intruder\AGM_45";

};

class AGM_84: Hellfire // AirLaunched Harpoon

{

hit=7590.8;

indirectHit=3253;

indirectHitRange=5.500000;

model="\DrF_Intruder\AGM_84";

minRange=300;

minRangeProbab=0.300000;

midRange=10000;

midRangeProbab=0.800000;

maxRange=25000;

maxRangeProbab=0.500000;

thrust=700;

laserLock=0;

irLock=1;

maxSpeed=885;

proxyShape="\DrF_Intruder\AGM_84";

};

class MK_81: Default // 250lb GP BOMB

{

hit=2065;

indirectHit=885;

indirectHitRange=4.5;

minRange=50;

minRangeProbab=0.500000;

midRange=300;

midRangeProbab=0.950000;

maxRange=2500;

maxRangeProbab=0.500000;

soundHit[]={"\LaserGuided\expl2",100.000008,1};

model="\DrF_Intruder\mk_81";

proxyShape="\DrF_Intruder\mk_81";

irLock=0;

laserLock=0;

maxControlRange=0;

maneuvrability=0;

sideAirFriction=0.100000;

simulation="shotMissile";

maxSpeed=600;

initTime=0;

thrustTime=0;

thrust=0;

};

class MK_82: MK_81 // 500lb GP BOMB

{

hit=3115;

indirectHit=1335;

indirectHitRange=6;

model="\DrF_Intruder\mk_82";

proxyShape="\DrF_Intruder\mk_82";

};

class MK_83: MK_81 // 1000lb GP BOMB

{

hit=7070;

indirectHit=3030;

indirectHitRange=7.575;

model="\DrF_Intruder\mk_83";

proxyShape="\DrF_Intruder\mk_83";

};

class MK_84: MK_81 // 2000lb GP BOMB

{

hit=14700;

indirectHit=6300;

indirectHitRange=15.75;

model="\DrF_Intruder\mk_84";

proxyShape="\DrF_Intruder\mk_84";

};

class GBU_12D: MK_82 // 500lb Laser Guided BOMB

{

minRange=50;

minRangeProbab=0.500000;

midRange=2500;

midRangeProbab=0.950000;

maxRange=5000;

maxRangeProbab=0.500000;

soundHit[]={"\LaserGuided\expl2",100.000008,1};

cost=20000;

model="\DrF_Intruder\GBU_12";

proxyShape="\DrF_Intruder\GBU_12P";

irLock=0;

laserLock=1;

maxControlRange=100000;

maneuvrability=16.000000;

sideAirFriction=0.100000;

simulation="shotMissile";

};

class GBU_16B: MK_83 // 1000lb Laser Guided BOMB

{

minRange=50;

minRangeProbab=0.500000;

midRange=2500;

midRangeProbab=0.950000;

maxRange=5000;

maxRangeProbab=0.500000;

soundHit[]={"\LaserGuided\expl2",100.000008,1};

cost=20000;

model="\DrF_Intruder\GBU_16";

proxyShape="\DrF_Intruder\GBU_16P";

irLock=0;

laserLock=1;

maxControlRange=100000;

maneuvrability=16.000000;

sideAirFriction=0.100000;

simulation="shotMissile";

};

class GBU_10E: MK_84 // 2000lb Laser Guided BOMB GBU-24E & B use this

{

minRange=50;

minRangeProbab=0.500000;

midRange=2500;

midRangeProbab=0.950000;

maxRange=5000;

maxRangeProbab=0.500000;

soundHit[]={"\LaserGuided\expl2",100.000008,1};

cost=20000;

model="\DrF_Intruder\GBU_10";

proxyShape="\DrF_Intruder\GBU_10P";

irLock=0;

laserLock=1;

maxControlRange=100000;

maneuvrability=16.000000;

sideAirFriction=0.100000;

simulation="shotMissile";

};

class Grenade: Default

{

hit=20;

indirectHit=18;

indirectHitRange=7;

minRange=15;

minRangeProbab=0.300000;

midRange=80;

midRangeProbab=0.550000;

maxRange=150;

maxRangeProbab=0.000000;

model="granat";

cost=40;

simulation="shotShell";

simulationStep=0.050000;

soundHit[]={"Explosions\expl3",10.000000,1};

soundFly[]={"objects\noise",0.000032,1};

soundEngine[]={"",0.000100,4};

visibleFire=2;

audibleFire=0.250000;

visibleFireTime=0;

};

class GrenadeHand: Grenade // HE

{

model="handgrenade.p3d";

minRange=40;

minRangeProbab=0.100000;

midRange=45;

midRangeProbab=0.300000;

maxRange=60;

maxRangeProbab=0.500000;

visibleFire=2;

audibleFire=0.250000;

visibleFireTime=1;

};

class M67: GrenadeHand // FRAG Grenade

{

hit=6.37;

indirectHit=2.73;

indirectHitRange=15;

};

};

<span id='postcolor'>

Please note that the following code parts need to changed to make the code work, unless you have the DrF_Intruder beta.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE"> model="";

proxyShape="";<span id='postcolor'>

I'll be testing them this weekend. I'll also supply the models once we agree on the standards.

DragoFire

[DragoFire 0]

Here's the weapon stat's for the LAU10 & LAU61 rocket pods;

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">class cfgweapons

{

class Default {};

class LAWLauncher: Default {};

class CarlGustavLauncher: LAWLauncher {};

class AT3Launcher: CarlGustavLauncher {};

class LAU10_4: AT3Launcher // single 4 rocketlauncher pod

{

ammo= Zuni;

displayName= "LAU10 5inch FFAR";

displayNameMagazine= "LAU10 5inch FFAR";

shortNameMagazine= "Zuni";

magazine= "Zuni";

magazines[] = {LAU10_4,};

magazineReloadTime = 0.1;

count= 4;

reloadTime= 0.1;

aiRateOfFire= 0.2

aiRateOfFireDistance= 1300;

burst= 1;

sound[]= {Weapons\rocket1,db+60,1};

reloadSound[]= {Weapons\missload,db-70,1};

initSpeed= 350;

autoFire = 1;

recoil= empty;

optics= 1;

};

class LAU61_19 : AT3Launcher // single 19 rocketlauncher pod

{

ammo= Hydra;

displayName= "LAU61 2.75inch FFAR";

displayNameMagazine= "LAU61 2.75inch FFAR";

shortNameMagazine= "Hydra";

magazine= "Hydra";

magazines[] = {LAU61_19, LAU61_7};

magazineReloadTime = 0.1;

count= 19;

reloadTime= 0.1;

aiRateOfFire= 0.2

aiRateOfFireDistance= 1300;

burst= 2;

sound[]= {Weapons\rocket1,db+60,1};

reloadSound[]= {Weapons\missload,db-70,1};

initSpeed= 450;

autoFire = true;

recoil= empty;

optics= 1;

};

class LAU61_7: LAU61_19 // single 7 rocketlauncher pod

{

count= 7;

};

};

<span id='postcolor'>

I've made up a PDO that has most of the weapons in it and have zipped it with the CPP. You  can get the zip from here!

Also note that the ranges of some missiles are not 100%, due to the fact that some would have been able to attack a target on the other side of the map!

DragoFire

[Wires 0]

Couple of qs for you Drago how will you calculate armour values, especially different types of armour? and what values do you think different tank shells ect should use (105mm, 120mm ect ect), as well as different shell technologys?

I think this will be the main stumbling block as there is no way to code in what type of armour a vehicle is using and therefore the penetration governed by the dammage values will be correct for one tank but totally wrong for another.

[DragoFire 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wires @ Feb. 28 2003,14:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Couple of qs for you Drago how will you calculate armour values, especially different types of armour? and what values do you think different tank shells ect should use (105mm, 120mm ect ect), as well as different shell technologys?

I think this will be the main stumbling block as there is no way to code in what type of armour a vehicle is using and therefore the penetration governed by the dammage values will be correct for one tank but totally wrong for another.<span id='postcolor'>

Tank ammo will be;

APFSDS,

STAFF,

APDS,

HEAT,

Plus others depending on the gun's Caliber.

If I know the formula that BIS uses to calculate armor penetration of weapons, every weapon (well not every) could be done.

That the moment I'm trying to figure it out. So then I can do just that, and we'd have a complete set of realistic weapons (damage wise). As you're possible seen I've already got the ammo settings ready for most readly available Caliber projectiles.

If anyone does have an idea of the formula, I'd like to see it.

DragoFire

[Wires 0]

I have little faith in BIS in this area, personally I think Sigma6's tank pack was rather good in terms of realism, at least relative to the other tanks in the pack. From looking at the configs ect it seems the armour values and penetraion of the different rounds is almost exact (a tank with 700mm of armour has an armour value of 700 ect) Seemed to work quite well and this principal could be applied to many other munitions. Maybe not exactly in terms of penetration in some cases but generally this could work.

[DragoFire 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wires @ Feb. 28 2003,15:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have little faith in BIS in this area, personally I think Sigma6's tank pack was rather good in terms of realism, at least relative to the other tanks in the pack. From looking at the configs ect it seems the armour values and penetraion of the different rounds is almost exact (a tank with 700mm of armour has an armour value of 700 ect) Seemed to work quite well and this principal could be applied to many other munitions. Maybe not exactly in terms of penetration in some cases but generally this could work.<span id='postcolor'>

Thanks for that I'll check out some of my info links on it, might have something in a day or two.

DragoFire

[DragoFire 0]

If someone can supply me with exact armor thickness and type for each side for each vehicle, I'll solve the problem.

Having trouble finding M1A1/2 armor and M2A2/3 armor.

DragoFire

[bodey 0]

Drago-

I wanted to DL the beta for this pack, but got a 403 error... Did you rename/remove the file? Just wondering, b/c this work sounds like a great idea...

Thanks

[mr. Duck 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DragoFire @ Feb. 28 2003,07:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If someone can supply me with exact armor thickness and type for each side for each vehicle, I'll solve the problem.

Having trouble finding M1A1/2 armor and M2A2/3 armor.  

DragoFire<span id='postcolor'>

I know that the M1A1/A2 got DU armour. But I believe the exact armour thickness and type is still classified (I think), and this goes for the M2A2/A3 too.

On a sidenote, what would be the standard armorvalue then for the different armortypes? Should for example DU chobham armor have an armorvalue of 1.8?

[chaztheducky 0]

the m1a1\a2's armor is still classified. lets just say though its the toughest in the world by FAR. it just kicks ass. dunno about the m2a2.

[Eviscerator 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (chaztheducky @ Mar. 21 2003,06:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the m1a1\a2's armor is still classified. lets just say though its the toughest in the world by FAR. it just kicks ass. dunno about the m2a2.<span id='postcolor'>

Ahem, the Challenger 2 is renowned for being the best armoured tank in NATO, and seeing as we (the brits) make the armour used in the challenger, challenger 2, M1A1/2 then i think itrs very probable we'll keep the best for ourselves

[Guest]

I can understand your attention to realism guys, but if it ends up that one tank or weapon just dominates, then you have a major gameplay problem....why use any other tank/weapon? Don't forget that things have to be a bit balanced in terms of gameplay...and 100% realistic configs may not provide this. So PLEASE keep that in mind

[Sigma-6 29]

Pretty well accepted that the Leopard 2A6 is the best armoured tank in NATO hands down. The T90 Vladimir is probably the best protected in the world, though there's no way to tell, and saying that even when you understand the principles to a tee can get your head bitten off.

You can't get accurate values for any of the top tanks, but you can get *approximate values*. and they do differ greatly depending on specific location, slope, and the type of weapon that's attacking, as well as about twelve million other factors.

Somebody once said that measuring tank armour using equivalencies of RHA is like weighing a pig in Ohio:

You lay a board across a fence and put the pig on one end of the board. Then, you pile up bricks on the other end until both sides are balanced, and then you guess how much the bricks weigh.

I'm putting together an exhaustive list of both definite values for older tanks and approximated values for current gear. I'll post it here when I'm done, but so far, it's going well.

[chaztheducky 0]

i do agree that they should be ballanced but not severly. now adays if your modern mbt is hit by a modern mbt. your tank(and you) will probly die. then explode. not a whole lot stops a skinny rod flying at more than 1100 fps.

@ eviscerator....doh! i forgot about the challenger 2. but both the tanks are evenly matched at each other. but usully its the crew now adays that make up the determing factor in tank battles. which would make us(the amercians ) win the battle. trust me...when you've got a texan in command of a tank...nothing gets in the way.

"REMEMBER THE ALAMO!"

[rouge1 0]

BUMP

[DragoFire 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bodey @ Mar. 21 2003,13:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Drago-

I wanted to DL the beta for this pack, but got a 403 error... Did you rename/remove the file? Just wondering, b/c this work sounds like a great idea...

Thanks<span id='postcolor'>

I hope you got the file at I e-mailed to you, and all's going well with it.

DragoFire

[Sigma-6 29]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">when you've got a texan in command of a tank...nothing gets in the way.

<span id='postcolor'>

That must be why our guys creamed your guys at the Wainright Ex last year, eh?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I can understand your attention to realism guys, but if it ends up that one tank or weapon just dominates, then you have a major gameplay problem....why use any other tank/weapon? Don't forget that things have to be a bit balanced in terms of gameplay...and 100% realistic configs may not provide this. So PLEASE keep that in mind<span id='postcolor'>

I completely and in all ways disagree with this assessment. The entire point of realism is that it forces people with out-of-date gear to think about what they're doing. There's always a purpose for an obsolete vehicle, and sometimes when you're making a mission, you have to have a force use something hopelessly underpowered. I absolutely fail to see why a super T54 would make any sense at all, and the same for an underpowered M1. If you want equal battles, then use relatively equal vehicles, but there's little to no sense in making everything equal for 'gameplay' purposes, especially when there are *so many* versions of a given tank available (T80, T80A, T80B, T80BV, T80U, T80UE, T80UK, T80UM, T84, T84U) are all versions of the T80. If you want equal tanks, use equal tanks. You can pretty much choose a version for any type of conflict.

Naw. For my part, personally, I threw 'gameplay' out the window for realism a long time ago. It's way more fun to try and kill a superior vehicle with an inferior one anyway, and ditto vice-versa. The truth is stranger than fiction, as they say.

[PFC Mongoose 0]

That's what hurt Battleifield 1942 for me.

Yes, the vehicles are balanced, but the effect is almost the opposite of what I think Leone intended.

A light tank is a light tank, a fighter is a fighter.. there are some expections, but everything is balanced too well.

I really agree with Sigma-6 on this.

If we can get the realism down, then you'll have to use in game factors (numbers, positioning, ambushes, logistics) to balance encounters, not just 'I have 6 tanks, and you have 6 tanks, and they're basically the same, so let's FIGHT!'