The Iraq Thread

[brgnorway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (JJPHAT @ Feb. 02 2003,07:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1.Wow your a super liberal, i'm not gonna respond to your first simply retarded speculative comment<span id='postcolor'>

Please inform me about what you find speculative!

Also, I don't know how you define a "super liberal", but back here in Norway that would be something like: open minded - but with a critical sense. In order to be liberal you also have to learn the lession from past mistakes. And we've made a few - but are still recognizing them. Seems to me you are not!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">2. per capita is bullshit, it doesen't take into effect all the different factors of that particular nation correctly. The only thing that matters is the end result!

<span id='postcolor'>

Would you mind explaining me why it is bullshit? I'll bring in some factors for you as well. During the apartheid rule in South Africa, norwegian diplomats smuggled in vast amounts of cash to ANC. ANC representatives have said it made a difference and that they are gratefull. That's what I call an end result!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">3. How are we bullying the world, by getting angry when other countries inhibit our abilites to stop terrorism before it happens??? o so now your gonna say it wouldn't have happened if we didn't go around bullying? I forgot, what did the people sitting in borders having breakfast in the wtc have to do with the U.S., many of whom were immigrants, many of whom were arab have to do with US foreign policy in anyway or form

<span id='postcolor'>

Maybe you should ask yourself why the WTC tradgedy happend in the first place? Sure, I'm not defending such horrible acts of terror, but why do you think so many people in the third world are so hostile towards US - Oh I see, it must be because you present them such a good end result?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">4.GOOD! Thank you. Until then please don't bother the US with your petty concerns. Yes what I'm saying is arrogant, but when you see the ultra liberalists as much of the European mindset brings it makes me sick

<span id='postcolor'>

Our petty concerns are that what US does actually affect our lives as well. You make the world a much more uncertain and dangerous place to be. You make me sick too because you can say "preemptive" as much as you like, but in the end you will only be facing more hostilities in the future. Unfortunately, you are dragging the rest of the world into it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">5.APPEASEMENT APPEASEMENT!

<span id='postcolor'>

CRUCIFY CRUCIFY

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">6.christ i'm a moderate but this makes me sick, until you have your own 9-11 i pray you don't , it's impossible to understand<span id='postcolor'>

To call you a warmonger would not be an understatement. Don't worry - US will probably provoce someone into giving us our very own 911.

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">may bee it was destroyed<span id='postcolor'>

So you think that Saddam would spend lots of money on a NBC program, put his country at risk for breaking the UN rules, AND kick UN inspectors out of his country only to disarm voluntarilly?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Y arnt we seeing the same drive to invade North Korea i mean they have invaded in the past.<span id='postcolor'>

We're trying democracy first with North Korea.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have friends from iraq what you fail to see is people his age are drafted into the miltary to be blown to bits by bombers with no means of fighting back, it would be a turky shoot, and only serve to drive more people to the terrorest cause, <span id='postcolor'>

Why would they blame the US for something Saddam did?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">you can remove saddium from power and replace him with a puppet to serve your purposes but the iraq people wont be happy about all their people that were slaughtered. U are proved wrong time and time again you so blindy belive yr countries propaganda.<span id='postcolor'>

Saddams the one ripping the country to pieces. You seem to be under the impression that he's a good guy. You're the one buying into his propaganda.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i dont see saddium as a big enough threat to justify the amount of death an invasion will cause<span id='postcolor'>

Because you're believing him over the UN's evidence.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What makes u think iraq after 12 years of nothing is suddenly going to start doing things that will guantee its destruction no,<span id='postcolor'>

12 years of nothing? 12 years of dodging weapons inspectors, working on WMDs, violating sanctions, violating UN regulation, and finally kicking weapons inspectors out to avoid losign his WMDs.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">if u do invade you will force them to use WMDs if they have them which is what you think they do and that is stupid.<span id='postcolor'>

Wait, I thought you said he didn't have WMDs?

*sigh*

WMDs will probably be our first targets in the attacks, and besides that he's not very capable of delivering WMDs militarilly.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The UN will decide the USA should respect that decision or be punshed if it dosnt the UN is their for a reason to stop this very thing you cant be all iraq dosnt do what the UN says when the USA ignores the UN to.<span id='postcolor'>

Iraq is the one not respecting the UN. They haven't done it ever. Again you seem to think that Saddam is a good guy. He certainly isn't.

And did punctuation go out the window tonight or what?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think Europe understands perfectly well. I also think we have learnt, as opposed to many in the US, that violence always leads to more violence.<span id='postcolor'>

Not going to war will not stop terrorism. We learned this from 09/11. The only way we can get rid of all these terrorist groups is to take them down as they come up. It's just that simple. I don't know how long this war will last or what, but short of giving into their demands and changing our major religion to Islam these guys won't stop.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Slant-drilling, eh? That's complete news to me. You wouldn't just be making that up now, would you? How 'bout posting a reference?

I suppose the real explanation might be a bit technically challenging. Maybe we should just drop it.<span id='postcolor'>

Or you could just look at the sources I gave you, like you should have. Or is that too technically challenging.

[JJFLY 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (brgnorway @ Feb. 02 2003,20:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (JJPHAT @ Feb. 02 2003,07:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1.Wow your a super liberal, i'm not gonna respond to your first simply retarded speculative comment<span id='postcolor'>

Please inform me about what you find speculative!

Also, I don't know how you define a "super liberal", but back here in Norway that would be something like: open minded - but with a critical sense. In order to be liberal you also have to learn the lession from past mistakes. And we've made a few - but are still recognizing them. Seems to me you are not!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">2. per capita is bullshit, it doesen't take into effect all the different factors of that particular nation correctly. The only thing that matters is the end result!

<span id='postcolor'>

Would you mind explaining me why it is bullshit? I'll bring in some factors for you as well. During the apartheid rule in South Africa, norwegian diplomats smuggled in vast amounts of cash to ANC. ANC representatives have said it made a difference and that they are gratefull. That's what I call an end result!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">3. How are we bullying the world, by getting angry when other countries inhibit our abilites to stop terrorism before it happens??? o so now your gonna say it wouldn't have happened if we didn't go around bullying? I forgot, what did the people sitting in borders having breakfast in the wtc have to do with the U.S., many of whom were immigrants, many of whom were arab have to do with US foreign policy in anyway or form

<span id='postcolor'>

Maybe you should ask yourself why the WTC tradgedy happend in the first place? Sure, I'm not defending such horrible acts of terror, but why do you think so many people in the third world are so hostile towards US - Oh I see, it must be because you present them such a good end result?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">4.GOOD! Thank you. Until then please don't bother the US with your petty concerns. Yes what I'm saying is arrogant, but when you see the ultra liberalists as much of the European mindset brings it makes me sick

<span id='postcolor'>

Our petty concerns are that what US does actually affect our lives as well. You make the world a much more uncertain and dangerous place to be. You make me sick too because you can say "preemptive" as much as you like, but in the end you will only be facing more hostilities in the future. Unfortunately, you are dragging the rest of the world into it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">5.APPEASEMENT APPEASEMENT!

<span id='postcolor'>

CRUCIFY CRUCIFY

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">6.christ i'm a moderate but this makes me sick, until you have your own 9-11 i pray you don't , it's impossible to understand<span id='postcolor'>

To call you a warmonger would not be an understatement. Don't worry - US will probably provoce someone into giving us our very own 911.<span id='postcolor'>

1. Occupation is not state sponsored terrorism

2 Lol cultue clash brgnorway, in the us, we look at liberalism as something different that in norway. Just because i realize saddam as a threat is not making me a conservative.

3.Per capita is bullshit, because the end result is all that matters, per capita doesen't take in to effect all the exstenuating circumstance. Don't get me started on Apartheid , and what americans did for the anc, an to the SA gov

4.The WTC happened, in the first place because a man mutilated a peaceful religion to meet his own sick needs.

5.prove that by building up countires economies and helping people reestablish themselves after wars. If you knew your history, in every country after almost every war US occupied forces were seen as liberators. THe only country i can think of is that sliver of jungle in East Asia, thats an entire different story.

6.Crucify? It's better than sitting around, and doing nothing but criticizing people who take it upon themselves to do something to better try and save the world. Please READ YOUR HISTORY, and forgot that crap about sometimes the best thiing is to do nothing.

7. Culture Clash, in America this isn't being a warmonger this is being quite liberal. I don't think you guys understand psy ops. By saying your plannign to attack keeps your enemy on your toes for example. Even the weapons inspectors are agreeing with the US.

Years from now, we will be older and discussing, and our sons and daughters if we have any will discuss the same thigns we will discuss, we will have made our mark and continue to make our mark. To that i drink and raise my glass to you, and to the future let us meet somehwere, sit down , drink and discuss what happened.

[Guest]

I am very surprised this hasn't been mentioned much in the US mainstream media. I suppose that the Space Shuttle accident got in the way.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Feb. 02 2003,21:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am very surprised this hasn't been mentioned much in the US mainstream media. I suppose that the Space Shuttle accident got in the way.<span id='postcolor'>

But what form of military resistance against an allied invasion would not be suicide?

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Feb. 02 2003,20:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Or you could just look at the sources I gave you, like you should have.  Or is that too technically challenging.<span id='postcolor'>

I think you're confused.  Longinius asked you about this back around page 138.  Not me.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Feb. 01 2003,19:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I already told you why he attacked Kuwait and Iran in the first place.  You just happily ignored it.<span id='postcolor'>

You may have told someone, but it wasn't me.  Nonetheless, I still gave you a full report on page 193 which still has nothing to do with slant drilling.

Why not just post your source of info if you've got one?

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Feb. 02 2003,20:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The only way we can get rid of all these terrorist groups is to take them down as they come up.  It's just that simple.<span id='postcolor'>

Umm... no it's not. That's like saying we can cure cancer by cutting out each tumour as it shows up. Surgery is usually only part of the solution.

[DracoPaladore 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Feb. 02 2003,21:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am very surprised this hasn't been mentioned much in the US mainstream media. I suppose that the Space Shuttle accident got in the way.<span id='postcolor'>

Anything thats worse than a soldier, missle, or bomb is a martyr.

If they beleive they are martyrs of their country, its apparant that the threat of suicide bombers isn't a bluff.

[DracoPaladore 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Feb. 02 2003,21:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Denoir, I chalk that up as more propoganda.  I don't know of anybody who would be forced from their friends and family to go suicide bomb American forces who wouldn't take the bomb off as soon as they were out of sight and surrender.<span id='postcolor'>

I hear they were quite effective and used in Vietnam.

[FSPilot 0]

3--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Feb. 03 2003,033)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think you're confused.  Longinius asked you about this back around page 138.  Not me.<span id='postcolor'>

And you want different sources?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You may have told someone, but it wasn't me.  Nonetheless, I still gave you a full report on page 193 which still has nothing to do with slant drilling.<span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Kuwait was over pumping the field causing (1) oil to migrate to their side of the border and (2) creating unproducible gas zones in the entire formation.<span id='postcolor'>

Which is essentially what I already said.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why not just post your source of info if you've got one?<span id='postcolor'>

Already did, do some reading and you'll find it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Umm... no it's not. That's like saying we can cure cancer by cutting out each tumour as it shows up. Surgery is usually only part of the solution.<span id='postcolor'>

Ok, so what do you recommend we do Napoleon?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I hear they were quite effective and used in Vietnam.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes but in Vietnam the soldiers were motivated. Now they're not.

[brgnorway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (JJPHAT @ Feb. 02 2003,20:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1. Occupation is not state sponsored terrorism

<span id='postcolor'>Oh, so it must be a good thing then. I wonder why my grandfather went to all the trouble of fighting the germans in his homeland. You know, the "end result" he got was a nice vacation in Sachsenhauzen consentration camp.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">2 Lol cultue clash brgnorway, in the us, we look at liberalism as something different that in norway. Just because i realize saddam as a threat is not making me a conservative.

<span id='postcolor'>

I doubt many europeans see Saddam as a nice guy. Most people would wish him a one way ticket to hell. Problem is the way it is done - so many innocent people will be forced to join him on that tour because of the way it is done. But do Saddam pose a threat to the western world? Hardly - but he could of course due to the actions of USA.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">3.Per capita is bullshit, because the end result is all that matters, per capita doesen't take in to effect all the exstenuating circumstance. Don't get me started on Apartheid , and what americans did for the anc, an to the SA gov

<span id='postcolor'>

Of course, what USA does is the only thing that matters. Extenuating circumstances? I think you have to explain your point? And please, tell me what americans did for ANC except for the boycott of South African products that further hardened the lives of the already poor population?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">4.The WTC happened, in the first place because a man mutilated a peaceful religion to meet his own sick needs.<span id='postcolor'>

The man/men was/were sick - no doubt! But there are reasons for the antagonism the west in general and US in particular receive worldwide. I always wonder how it's possible for you US citizens to close your eyes to the obvious - perhaps it's because the consumer is holy - and nothing must disturb or threaten the almighty consumer. In my book that's called lack of selfcriticism!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">5.prove that by building up countires economies and helping people reestablish themselves after wars. <span id='postcolor'>

I have already explained the gratitude of europeans on behalf of the marshall plan. We all gained a lot from it - including you!

I guess you would have a hard time claiming helping people and building countries economies in latin america, the mid east and last but not least in south east asia. Try at least to think about it: your country has reinstituted and supported dictators, destabilized democracies, bought land and labour in dirty shady deals with people you shouldn't even associate with, fought wars and supported terrorists.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

If you knew your history, in every country after almost every war US occupied forces were seen as liberators. THe only country i can think of is that sliver of jungle in East Asia, thats an entire different story.

<span id='postcolor'>

I know my history quite well thank you! US forces seen as liberators? Don't make postwar Germany and Japan representative for other cases. I suppose you believe most afghanis see you as the great liberator?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">6.Crucify? It's better than sitting around, and doing nothing but criticizing people who take it upon themselves to do something to better try and save the world. <span id='postcolor'>

Yes, the "crucify"-thing is something I came up with when thinking of Monty Python's "Life of Brian". It resembles US foreign policy nowadays. If you realy wanted to make the world a better place there are lots of things you could do - without making people miserable. Again, start learning from past mistakes!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">7. Culture Clash, in America this isn't being a warmonger this is being quite liberal. I don't think you guys understand psy ops. By saying your plannign to attack keeps your enemy on your toes for example. Even the weapons inspectors are agreeing with the US.

<span id='postcolor'>

So why don't you play along with UN and stop this we will do this or that no matter what? The result of your country's policy is that UN's importance will be marginalized into something totaly disastrous. However, I'll agree with you that pressure is a working strategy in some cases. The only problem is that if you start putting pressure on ONE dictator - does that mean you are going to pursue others? - like the one in Pakistan perhaps - your ally, and what about the Sabha family of Saudi Arabia, etc?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Years from now, we will be older and discussing, and our sons and daughters if we have any will discuss the same thigns we will discuss, we will have made our mark and continue to make our mark. To that i drink and raise my glass to you, and to the future let us meet somehwere, sit down , drink and discuss what happened.<span id='postcolor'>

Cheers!

[OxPecker 0]

i can't believe you guys are still trying reason with fspilot. It is obvious he is a patriotic fanatic. You can't reason with him any more than you could with a Palestinian suicide bomber.

[FSPilot 0]

I could say the same thing about you, you know.

[HellToupee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Feb. 03 2003,08:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">may bee it was destroyed<span id='postcolor'>

So you think that Saddam would spend lots of money on a NBC program, put his country at risk for breaking the UN rules, AND kick UN inspectors out of his country only to disarm voluntarilly?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Y arnt we seeing the same drive to invade North Korea i mean they have invaded in the past.<span id='postcolor'>

We're trying democracy first with North Korea.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have friends from iraq what you fail to see is people his age are drafted into the miltary to be blown to bits by bombers with no means of fighting back, it would be a turky shoot, and only serve to drive more people to the terrorest cause, <span id='postcolor'>

Why would they blame the US for something Saddam did?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">you can remove saddium from power and replace him with a puppet to serve your purposes but the iraq people wont be happy about all their people that were slaughtered. U are proved wrong time and time again you so blindy belive yr countries propaganda.<span id='postcolor'>

Saddams the one ripping the country to pieces. You seem to be under the impression that he's a good guy. You're the one buying into his propaganda.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i dont see saddium as a big enough threat to justify the amount of death an invasion will cause<span id='postcolor'>

Because you're believing him over the UN's evidence.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What makes u think iraq after 12 years of nothing is suddenly going to start doing things that will guantee its destruction no,<span id='postcolor'>

12 years of nothing? 12 years of dodging weapons inspectors, working on WMDs, violating sanctions, violating UN regulation, and finally kicking weapons inspectors out to avoid losign his WMDs.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">if u do invade you will force them to use WMDs if they have them which is what you think they do and that is stupid.<span id='postcolor'>

Wait, I thought you said he didn't have WMDs?

*sigh*

WMDs will probably be our first targets in the attacks, and besides that he's not very capable of delivering WMDs militarilly.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The UN will decide the USA should respect that decision or be punshed if it dosnt the UN is their for a reason to stop this very thing you cant be all iraq dosnt do what the UN says when the USA ignores the UN to.<span id='postcolor'>

Iraq is the one not respecting the UN. They haven't done it ever. Again you seem to think that Saddam is a good guy. He certainly isn't.

And did punctuation go out the window tonight or what?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think Europe understands perfectly well. I also think we have learnt, as opposed to many in the US, that violence always leads to more violence.<span id='postcolor'>

Not going to war will not stop terrorism. We learned this from 09/11. The only way we can get rid of all these terrorist groups is to take them down as they come up. It's just that simple. I don't know how long this war will last or what, but short of giving into their demands and changing our major religion to Islam these guys won't stop.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Slant-drilling, eh? That's complete news to me. You wouldn't just be making that up now, would you? How 'bout posting a reference?

I suppose the real explanation might be a bit technically challenging. Maybe we should just drop it.<span id='postcolor'>

Or you could just look at the sources I gave you, like you should have. Or is that too technically challenging.<span id='postcolor'>

whats ripping the country to peices is the UN santions their was a list posted of whats not allowed in now that showed just how bad they are.

I do not think saddium is a great guy, but what u fail to understant time and time and time and time again is when u invade a country people die people like my friend, dont u get it do you think when they see american bombers comming to blow them up they are going to dance around in joy that the great americans have come to make their lives a better place? no, they hate them they blame the US for what was done to their country they belive in kuwait they were tricked into invading, try talking to one instead ti relying on the propaganda. Democracy with north korea aye y not iraq they seem to be coorperating so far. Beliving him over the UNs evidence no i am not its just the evidence is next to non existant, what will you say when the UN says no to an invasion which seems very likly at this point. As for WMDS being first targets of attack thats all very well apart from the fact you cant find any. As fro iraq not respecting the UN at the moment the US disrespects it more than iraq, iraq is coorperating and the US is saying it will ignore the UN.

[HellToupee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (OxPecker @ Feb. 03 2003,12:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i can't believe you guys are still trying reason with fspilot. It is obvious he is a patriotic fanatic. You can't reason with him any more than you could with a Palestinian suicide bomber. <span id='postcolor'>

heh jus look at his i luv bush avtar and sig

[Balschoiw 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I could say the same thing about you, you know.

<span id='postcolor'>

But he has a point here FS. He´s not the only one. And we are no US-hating crowd here. Maybe some of the guys you talk to have actual combat experience, have jobs in military organization and years of reports on their back. So you know sometimes there could be something true and worth listening to it. You simplify any opposition as us bashing but don´t really try to accept facts others than yours. For sure you can´t tell me something that I KNOW that it isn´t right, cause I have actually seen it. And I think i am not the only one that has that impression.

[DracoPaladore 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Feb. 02 2003,23:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I hear they were quite effective and used in Vietnam.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes but in Vietnam the soldiers were motivated.  Now they're not.<span id='postcolor'>

How do you know wether or not their motivated? Their borders may be surrounded, but that dosen't mean they arnt motivated. As far as I know, most people in the middle east have a large hate for the Western World. That hate alone, and the fact that they may become famous in their population for being of martyr of the people is probobly enough motivation alone.

[brgnorway 0]

FSPilot - we both know our views on the upcoming war. However, I'd like to hear your view on what to do in the aftermath of the Iraq situation? What if the middle eastern nations experience riots and upproar - what will you do? Will you send more military help to the leaders of those countries so they are able to quell the rioting masses? Or will you demand that these countries start a process of democratization?

I foresee a future problem here, the revolting masses threatening the power of the leaders (dictators) and you (US) caught between a rock and a hard place, not knowing what to do.

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DracoPaladore @ Feb. 03 2003,05:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">whats ripping the country to peices is the UN santions their was a list posted of whats not allowed in now that showed just how bad they are.<span id='postcolor'>

And you blame the US for that? How about the fact that saddam isn't giving ANY food or medicing to his people?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I do not think saddium is a great guy, but what u fail to understant time and time and time and time again is when u invade a country people die people like my friend,<span id='postcolor'>

I understand that. But what do you think he's going to do with his weapons? You don't buy bullets to mount on your wall. He's going to intimidate and threaten with, maybe even use these weapons

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> dont u get it do you think when they see american bombers comming to blow them up they are going to dance around in joy that the great americans have come to make their lives a better place? no, they hate them they blame the US for what was done to their country they belive in kuwait they were tricked into invading,<span id='postcolor'>

I cant speak for the Iraqis. But from what I've heard they're anxious to get rid of Saddam.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> try talking to one instead ti relying on the propaganda. <span id='postcolor'>

But they've been exposed to more propoganda than I have.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Democracy with north korea aye y not iraq they seem to be coorperating so far.<span id='postcolor'>

They haven't in the past and they're not doing it fully now.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Beliving him over the UNs evidence no i am not its just the evidence is next to non existant,<span id='postcolor'>

It's not non-existant. It's under your nose. UN inspections teams found TONS of WMDs in Iraq they they could NOT destroy. He has it, it's been found before, he's just hiding it now.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> what will you say when the UN says no to an invasion which seems very likly at this point.<span id='postcolor'>

I probably wouldn't support a war at that point. I think going in without international support would do more harm than good.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As fro iraq not respecting the UN at the moment the US disrespects it more than iraq, iraq is coorperating and the US is saying it will ignore the UN.<span id='postcolor'>

Iraq is cooperating? Yes they're letting inspectors in but they're still not cooperating fully. Not to mention the years of violating rules and sanctions, as well as human rights crimes.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But he has a point here FS. He´s not the only one. And we are no US-hating crowd here. Maybe some of the guys you talk to have actual combat experience, have jobs in military organization and years of reports on their back. So you know sometimes there could be something true and worth listening to it.<span id='postcolor'>

I understand that they have years of experience and all that, but what about the hard solid evidence that is against what they're arguing. The UN inspection teams from 98, the Iraqi defectors, the common sense and logic that he wouldn't disarm after going through all the trouble to arm in the first place. It just doesn't make sense.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You simplify any opposition as us bashing but don´t really try to accept facts others than yours. For sure you can´t tell me something that I KNOW that it isn´t right, cause I have actually seen it. And I think i am not the only one that has that impression.<span id='postcolor'>

So you've actually seen every single WMD that Iraq has out in the open being destroyed? Why didn't you come forward with this?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How do you know wether or not their motivated? Their borders may be surrounded, but that dosen't mean they arnt motivated.<span id='postcolor'>

Well I'm sure they remember the gulf war and how they got pounded into the ground. Not to mention the bombing directly before the ground war this time.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As far as I know, most people in the middle east have a large hate for the Western World. That hate alone, and the fact that they may become famous in their population for being of martyr of the people is probobly enough motivation alone.<span id='postcolor'>

You say that like they have a choice to run out towards US soldiers and blow themselves up. They're probably being forced to by Saddam

The thing that burns me about this is that Saddam is trying to inflict maximum civilian casualties on his side. What do you think will happen when he pushes all of his military into Baghdad and we try to bomb them? Hes basically using the entire population of Baghdad as a body shield, and a PR machine to make us look like monsters.

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">However, I'd like to hear your view on what to do in the aftermath of the Iraq situation? What if the middle eastern nations experience riots and upproar - what will you do? Will you send more military help to the leaders of those countries so they are able to quell the rioting masses? Or will you demand that these countries start a process of democratization?<span id='postcolor'>

I don't support a war without international support. I think it would cause more problems than the war would prevent. Frankly I don't know of any solutions if riots and uproar followed the war.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I foresee a future problem here, the revolting masses threatening the power of the leaders (dictators) and you (US) caught between a rock and a hard place, not knowing what to do.<span id='postcolor'>

Don't blame me for it. I'm against this war until we get more international support. I think Saddam is a threat and he needs to be disarmed, but until we get more allies I don't think we should go to war. It'd probably be best with the current worldwide anti-US animosity to wait for Saddam to use a WMD on some poor civilian population, then go in after him.

[HellToupee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Feb. 03 2003,13:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And you blame the US for that? How about the fact that saddam isn't giving ANY food or medicing to his people?

I understand that. But what do you think he's going to do with his weapons? You don't buy bullets to mount on your wall. He's going to intimidate and threaten with, maybe even use these weapons

I cant speak for the Iraqis. But from what I've heard they're anxious to get rid of Saddam.

But they've been exposed to more propoganda than I have.

They haven't in the past and they're not doing it fully now.

It's not non-existant. It's under your nose. UN inspections teams found TONS of WMDs in Iraq they they could NOT destroy. He has it, it's been found before, he's just hiding it now.

[<span id='postcolor'>

What do you know about not giving food to his people? i suppose the media says so, ill belive my iraqi friend than the media or you, will im sure the US donst by nukes to mount on their walls ither its the same reasoning, my iraq friend inst a saddiam supporter but he views the US as a bigger threat than saddiam to his country. As for him being exposed to more propaganda he has a much greater expence than you have u ever lived in a city to be bombed again and again i guess not, then why have these inspectors not found the smoking gun if it is under your nose, fact is theri is no evidence yo like bush claim iraq is hiding it and not coorperating, please use something you can back up not just opions.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

I think you guys really ought to watch yourselves when calling FSPilot a fanatic. He's argued his position (which is pretty unpopular with alot of people on this board) as well as can be expected, supporting his position with facts and reasoning, and what does he get for it? He has to be civil while people continue to verbally rip into his country, his government, and himself. That's a pretty shitty deal, don't you think? What I'm saying is be a little more civil towards the guy, even if you disagree with him, because he sure as Hell is doing you that favor.

[brgnorway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ Feb. 03 2003,01:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think you guys really ought to watch yourselves when calling FSPilot a fanatic. He's argued his position (which is pretty unpopular with alot of people on this board) as well as can be expected, supporting his position with facts and reasoning, and what does he get for it? He has to be civil while people continue to verbally rip into his country, his government, and himself. That's a pretty shitty deal, don't you think? What I'm saying is be a little more civil towards the guy, even if you disagree with him, because he sure as Hell is doing you that favor.<span id='postcolor'>

On the whole I'd say I agree with you. But we all take som "battering" here and it's inevitable. However, the remarks made by oxpecker was out of the line.

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">will im sure the US donst by nukes to mount on their walls ither its the same reasoning<span id='postcolor'>

The US is allowed to have nuclear weapons because we aren't going to use them in hat, we're more responsible than that. Saddam will.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As for him being exposed to more propaganda he has a much greater expence than you have u ever lived in a city to be bombed again and again i guess not<span id='postcolor'>

I understand how being bombed by someone can have an effect on their opinion. But it's irrelevant. Saddam told his people that he won the gulf war, he's lied to his people time and time again. so of course he's told his people that a giant evil bad america is trying to attack his innocent country. the thing is, he's raped and murdered his people. so you ask the brother of some girl who's been professionally raped by one of Saddam's henchmen, or a man who had to sit and watch his son being tortured until he did Saddam's bidding what their opinion is on saddam. then you'll get a different answer

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">then why have these inspectors not found the smoking gun if it is under your nose, fact is theri is no evidence yo like bush claim iraq is hiding it and not coorperating, please use something you can back up not just opions.<span id='postcolor'>

in 1998, weapons inspectors found these weapons. Then they were kicked out. Now, this is just common sense. Saddam would not disarm after going through a lot of trouble to get these weapons. but if you dont want to listen to this logic, listen to the people who have actually been there. who have actually worked on his WMDs. they've said he's working on these programs. you've got UN proof, and you've got defected Iraqis telling you their experiences. if that doesn't convince you then nothing short of a nuclear bomb will.

And thank you very much for your support Tex.

[HellToupee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Feb. 03 2003,13:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The US is allowed to have nuclear weapons because we aren't going to use them in hat, we're more responsible than that. Saddam will.<span id='postcolor'>

again plz use facts not just what u think or the media says, again why will saddiam use WMD? You credibilty decreases with every post, much like the US's evidence.