The Iraq Thread

[PFC Mongoose 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 10 2003,21:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No, I personally believe in liberal democracies, but I don't think that it gives me the right to enforce it on others. I am for instance against the capital punishment because I believe it is barbaric and has no place in a democracy, but that doesn't mean that I think that we should bomb USA.<span id='postcolor'>

I dunno, this one is a bit iffy.

I honestly don't know if it's worse to execute a murderer deemed unable to be rehabilitated and reenter society, or condemn them to live out the rest of their natural life essentially in a cage. I honestly don't.

While it's true that even if one's life is bad, at least they have an opportunity to live, and to experience before they die, I think there's a line that, when crossed, makes death almost preferrable.

I'm very on the fence as far as capital punishment goes; I believe in most cases, it is too much. However, for mass- or multiple- murderers, or attempted genocidists, I think it is acceptable.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (joltan @ April 11 2003,00:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FallenPaladin @ April 10 2003,23:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"De bello gallico"<span id='postcolor'>

Which by the way is one of the most horrible reads if you start thinking of the consequences of all the little sidenotes -<span id='postcolor'>

No, it gets REALLY horrible when you have to translate it from Latin into German

[OxPecker 0]

Almost an entire 2 pages in my newpaper this morning were plastered with letters all to the same effect -

"See how happy the Iraqis are! I hope all you peace protesters admit you were wrong now!"

And to that I have one answer - you really don't understand what they were protesting about.

The protests weren't about supporting Saddam, or saying the way he ran his country was OK.

They were about the US believing it is above international law, and showing it's willingness to enforce it's own idea of justice on a country whether they (or anyone else) like it or not.

I'm sure the crusades were started for the best of intention too.......

[OxPecker 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ April 10 2003,22:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We have far more control of our personal finances.  We can also choose whatever healthplan we like and we only pay for exactly what we are getting. Also, our financial system isn't going to collapse in less than 30 years. Socialist systems != economic liberty.<span id='postcolor'>

Funny you should mention health.

From everything I've read, the American health system is a real mess.

Only those wealthy enough receive decent treatment - god help you if you fall ill or suffer an accident and you aren't affluent enough to have health insurance.

I'm happy to live in a country that has a public health system, where people aren't left to rot in the gutter if they don't have private health insurance.

From a few Americans I know, they find our concept of a public health system quite odd, almost like some sort of socialist ideal.

And as for your financial system, thats a laugh. America has one of the dodgiest finances oin the world, present a facade of being this mighty economy, but in reality quite weak and unstable. I know you will scoff and tell me I'm crazy, but if I get a chance I'll ask a friend of mine who is an accountant to explain the nuances of exactly how screwed the American economy really is.

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (OxPecker @ April 11 2003,01:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ April 10 2003,22:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We have far more control of our personal finances.  We can also choose whatever healthplan we like and we only pay for exactly what we are getting. Also, our financial system isn't going to collapse in less than 30 years. Socialist systems != economic liberty.<span id='postcolor'>

Funny you should mention health.

From everything I've read, the American health system is a real mess.

Only those wealthy enough receive decent treatment - god help you if you fall ill or suffer an accident and you aren't affluent enough to have health insurance.

I'm happy to live in a country that has a public health system, where people aren't left to rot in the gutter if they don't have private health insurance.

From a few Americans I know, they find our concept of a public health system quite odd, almost like some sort of socialist ideal.<span id='postcolor'>

Here is a case of don't believe everything you read or see on TV.

I'm neither wealthy nor affluent, and I have good healthcare and cheap prescriptions. The media tends to center on the plight of a few of the screwed, usually arising out of the evil HMO architecture.

If you are poor (dirt poor) then no...you probably don't have health insurance, but that doesn't stop you from recieving treatment at clinics and hospitals.  There is a problem with senior citizen prescription plans and costs, and that is what Congress is dealing with now.

If you have a job, you have some kind of healthcare or another, which extends usually to your entire immediate family.

Medicare and government sponsored programs have been underfire and constantly being debated in Congress and the news. It's clear that there is work to do, but people aren't "left to rot in the gutter" either.

[OxPecker 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ April 11 2003,01:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (OxPecker @ April 11 2003,01:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ April 10 2003,22:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We have far more control of our personal finances.  We can also choose whatever healthplan we like and we only pay for exactly what we are getting. Also, our financial system isn't going to collapse in less than 30 years. Socialist systems != economic liberty.<span id='postcolor'>

Funny you should mention health.

From everything I've read, the American health system is a real mess.

Only those wealthy enough receive decent treatment - god help you if you fall ill or suffer an accident and you aren't affluent enough to have health insurance.

I'm happy to live in a country that has a public health system, where people aren't left to rot in the gutter if they don't have private health insurance.

From a few Americans I know, they find our concept of a public health system quite odd, almost like some sort of socialist ideal.<span id='postcolor'>

Here is a case of don't believe everything you read or see on TV.

I'm neither wealthy nor affluent, and I have good healthcare and cheap prescriptions. The media tends to center on the plight of a few of the screwed, usually arising out of the evil HMO architecture.

If you are poor (dirty poor) then no...you probably don't have health insurance, but that doesn't stop you from recieving treatment at clinics and hospitals.  There is a problem with senior citizen prescription plans and costs, and that is what Congress is dealing with now.

If you have a job, you have some kind of healthcare or another, which extends usually to your entire immediate family.

Medicare and government sponsored programs have been underfire and constantly being debated in Congress and the news. It's clear that there is work to do, but people aren't "left to rot in the gutter" either.<span id='postcolor'>

Well actually my opinion wasn't based on what I see on TV, but from what some expatriate Americans told me.

Still and all, with the info I have at hand, I would have to say our concept of a public health system is a lot fairer to people all the way across the economic spectrum.

But possibly the American health system isn't as bad as I've been lead to believe - true enough, I have never seen it first hand.

[Hit_Sqd_Maximus 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ April 10 2003,23:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Beuhler....Beuhler....Beuhler....

<span id='postcolor'>

LOL! I havent heard that name in a long time, I love that movie

I dont really beleive the US economy is in that bad of shape, is there any good links w/ the numbers of the bear market from before the war?

Here is the only link I can find on it and it claims the US economy isnt in as bad as shape as a lot of people fear.

[PFC Mongoose 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hit_Sqd_Maximus @ April 11 2003,02:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ April 10 2003,23:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Beuhler....Beuhler....Beuhler....

<span id='postcolor'>

LOL! I havent heard that name in a long time, I love that movie

I dont really beleive the US economy is in that bad of shape, is there any good links w/ the numbers of the bear market from before the war?

Here is the only link I can find on it and it claims the US economy isnt in as bad as shape as a lot of people fear.<span id='postcolor'>

What movie?

And yeah, I haven't been following American economy lately, but it's been pretty up and down over the course of the war... investors are fickle, timid people; as a generalization.

[Hit_Sqd_Maximus 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PFC Mongoose @ April 11 2003,03:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What movie?<span id='postcolor'>

"Ferris Beuhler" is the title I think, I see it on TV about once a month or so on UPN

[brgnorway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hit_Sqd_Maximus @ April 11 2003,04:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">6--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PFC Mongoose @ April 11 2003,036)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What movie?<span id='postcolor'>

"Ferris Beuhler" is the title I think, I see it on TV about once a month or so on UPN<span id='postcolor'>

The correct title is "Ferris Beuhler's day off"

[foxer 0]

America health care system isn't the best in the world.But close to it.But i heard how bad canada health care is,Which is free,they just tax the hell outta you.I heard in canada you have to wait a month or two to see a docter.Unless it's an emergency.Also you have to wait an month/two for surgery.

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hit_Sqd_Maximus @ April 11 2003,02:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ April 10 2003,23:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Beuhler....Beuhler....Beuhler....

<span id='postcolor'>

LOL! I havent heard that name in a long time, I love that movie

I dont really beleive the US economy is in that bad of shape, is there any good links w/ the numbers of the bear market from before the war?

Here is the only link I can find on it and it claims the US economy isnt in as bad as shape as a lot of people fear.<span id='postcolor'>

The thing about the "bear" market from before is that it was a false bear market, lead mostly by the sudden .com revolution. Any company that showed up, and whose portal of business was the internet, it's stock would instantly become inflated from investors wanting the new good thing.

This continued for a number of years, though analysts predicted (rightly) that the stock market was becoming artificially inflated. It was only a matter of time before the bubble burst. Millions were vested in technology stocks and jobs.

Suddenly the cold hard truth came to light. Just because your company is on the internet or deals in technology, doesn't guarentee success. Thousands of companies went under, and with them their stocks, and with that millions of dollars and jobs.

This happened all over the world, from Europe to Asia. Every market was affected.

So I would be careful comparing now to then. Some anaylsts say the market is correcting itself after that artificial growth. But one thing is for certain. With the collapse of thousands of tech companies, loss of jobs, and now airlines and various accounting scandals. What was a self-correction and a small recession after effect, could boil down to depression.

[Hit_Sqd_Maximus 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ April 11 2003,04:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The thing about the "bear" market from before is that it was a false bear market, lead mostly by the sudden .com revolution. Any company that showed up, and whose portal of business was the internet, it's stock would instantly become inflated from investors wanting the new good thing.

This continued for a number of years, though analysts predicted (rightly) that the stock market was becoming artificially inflated. It was only a matter of time before the bubble burst. Millions were vested in technology stocks and jobs.

Suddenly the cold hard truth came to light. Just because your company is on the internet or deals in technology, doesn't guarentee success. Thousands of companies went under, and with them their stocks, and with that millions of dollars and jobs.

This happened all over the world, from Europe to Asia. Every market was affected.

So I would be careful comparing now to then. Some anaylsts say the market is correcting itself after that artificial growth. But one thing is for certain. With the collapse of thousands of tech companies, loss of jobs, and now airlines and various accounting scandals. What was a self-correction and a small recession after effect, could boil down to depression.<span id='postcolor'>

I was originaly going to say something similar to this, about in Colorado there is about 15 programing jobs open and about 15 000 people competing for those jobs because everyone was told to be a programer or something with computers, but I couldnt find any information about what I was wanting to ask about... My cousin was one of them and just decided to be a paratrooper(the people that drop w/ the trucks/tanks/whatever and defend them untill the crew drops in or something)

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ April 11 2003,04:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">America health care system isn't the best in the world.But close to it.But i heard how bad canada health care is,Which is free,they just tax the hell outta you.I heard in canada you have to wait a month or two to see a docter.Unless it's an emergency.Also you have to wait an month/two for surgery.<span id='postcolor'>

LOL. I'd love to know where you got your info Probably from some whiner that had to wait a couple of months for cosmetic surgery

I can see a doctor the same day about 99% of the time. Elective surgery can take a month or two, but emergency surgery is fast.

If our medical systems suck so bad, then why do Americans near the border flood over the border to buy their prescription drugs? It's because even something that isnt part of the regular medical system (most people pay their own RX and are reimbursed from their extended medical through employers) is properly regulated so companies dont make obscebne profits from their drugs after a short period. Drug costs are one of the highest drains in US HMO's, thus why the insurance companies lobby the government to make the most popular medications salable 'over the counter' because then they dont have to cover them at all.

All in all, for the median income families, the Canadian medical system is vastly better than the US. Like always, for the rich it doesnt matter..because they will be able to afford the best anyways.

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ April 11 2003,04:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The thing about the "bear" market from before is that it was a false bear market, lead mostly by the sudden .com revolution. Any company that showed up, and whose portal of business was the internet, it's stock would instantly become inflated from investors wanting the new good thing.

This continued for a number of years, though analysts predicted (rightly) that the stock market was becoming artificially inflated. It was only a matter of time before the bubble burst. Millions were vested in technology stocks and jobs.

Suddenly the cold hard truth came to light. Just because your company is on the internet or deals in technology, doesn't guarentee success. Thousands of companies went under, and with them their stocks, and with that millions of dollars and jobs.

This happened all over the world, from Europe to Asia. Every market was affected.

So I would be careful comparing now to then. Some anaylsts say the market is correcting itself after that artificial growth. But one thing is for certain. With the collapse of thousands of tech companies, loss of jobs, and now airlines and various accounting scandals. What was a self-correction and a small recession after effect, could boil down to depression.<span id='postcolor'>

The .Com bubble burst in 200-2001. I think a two to three year 'correction' is rather a stretch. Most of the hi tech dot bombs are already out of the market, and what you are seeing now is a genuine problem with the domestic spending policies of the current government.

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ April 11 2003,05:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ April 11 2003,04:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The thing about the "bear" market from before is that it was a false bear market, lead mostly by the sudden .com revolution. Any company that showed up, and whose portal of business was the internet, it's stock would instantly become inflated from investors wanting the new good thing.

This continued for a number of years, though analysts predicted (rightly) that the stock market was becoming artificially inflated. It was only a matter of time before the bubble burst. Millions were vested in technology stocks and jobs.

Suddenly the cold hard truth came to light. Just because your company is on the internet or deals in technology, doesn't guarentee success. Thousands of companies went under, and with them their stocks, and with that millions of dollars and jobs.

This happened all over the world, from Europe to Asia. Every market was affected.

So I would be careful comparing now to then. Some anaylsts say the market is correcting itself after that artificial growth. But one thing is for certain. With the collapse of thousands of tech companies, loss of jobs, and now airlines and various accounting scandals. What was a self-correction and a small recession after effect, could boil down to depression.<span id='postcolor'>

The .Com bubble burst in 200-2001.  I think a two to three year 'correction' is rather a stretch.  Most of the hi tech dot bombs are already out of the market, and what you are seeing now is a genuine problem with the domestic spending policies of the current government.<span id='postcolor'>

I know thats when it burst. 2000-2001...then you have 9/11 and corprate greed scandals, then Afghanistan, then Iraq. Company after company going under. As I said the false .com inflation of the market and subsequent deflation, led to a period of recession and lower company spending, including the loss of jobs. Then the Enron/Anderson/Xerox/etc etc fiascos, and you get even more layoffs, company crashes, less in the stockmarket. Insert 9/11. Travel plummets. Airlines go under and are still going under. More jobs and economic millions lost. It's been a downward slope but one that has leveled off. Un-employment is a problem, especially if you are tech related. But the economy as a whole is hardly in a "shambles".

[Warin 0]

I am glad you have confidence in your President's ability to halt the rather depressed economy. Going back to his sad tendancy towards 'Reaganomics', do you relly think he can spend his way out of a depressed economy... or in his case a combination of spending and tax breaks, without depressing the economy even further?

I am not slamming Bush here. I am relying you you, Mr Akira, to give me a balanced view of US economics (something which I am not nearly as familiar with as I might be)

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ April 11 2003,05:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am glad you have confidence in your President's ability to halt the rather depressed economy.  Going back to his sad tendancy towards 'Reaganomics', do you relly think he can spend his way out of a depressed economy... or in his case a combination of spending and tax breaks, without depressing the economy even further?

I am not slamming Bush here.  I am relying you you, Mr Akira, to give me a balanced view of US economics (something which I am not nearly as familiar with as I might be)<span id='postcolor'>

Hehe...

I am just talking about the economy and in the last few years, and the extrenuous circumstances that also lead to a down-turn.

As for the future...

We're all going down the crapper thanks to umpteen-billion in un-printed money

[Akira 0]

Sony To Cash In

Let the merchandising begin.

Don't be surprised to see the G.I. Joe MOAB complete with mushroom cloud assembly and exploding Cobra soldier.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ April 11 2003,06:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sony To Cash In

Let the merchandising begin.

Don't be surprised to see the G.I. Joe MOAB complete with mushroom cloud assembly and exploding Cobra soldier.<span id='postcolor'>

This representative democracy brought to you by... Coca-Cola Classic! Its rich, refreshing taste will almost make you forget the 25 years of repression, war, and poverty that you've endured. So when you savor your first tastes of freedom, don't forget to wash it down with Coca-Cola Classic!

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ April 11 2003,05:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ April 11 2003,05:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am glad you have confidence in your President's ability to halt the rather depressed economy.  Going back to his sad tendancy towards 'Reaganomics', do you relly think he can spend his way out of a depressed economy... or in his case a combination of spending and tax breaks, without depressing the economy even further?

I am not slamming Bush here.  I am relying you you, Mr Akira, to give me a balanced view of US economics (something which I am not nearly as familiar with as I might be)<span id='postcolor'>

Hehe...

I am just talking about the economy and in the last few years, and the extrenuous circumstances that also lead to a down-turn.

As for the future...

We're all going down the crapper thanks to umpteen-billion in un-printed money

<span id='postcolor'>

Ahhhh! I see!

Well, I hope the US doesnt have a full blown recession/depression. You're our biggest trading partner

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ April 11 2003,06:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ahhhh! I see!

Well, I hope the US doesnt have a full blown recession/depression.  You're our biggest trading partner <span id='postcolor'>

I'd hate to see what an American recession would do to the Canadian maple syrup industry.

And for God's sake, send more bacon!!!

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ April 11 2003,07:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ April 11 2003,06:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ahhhh! I see!

Well, I hope the US doesnt have a full blown recession/depression.  You're our biggest trading partner <span id='postcolor'>

I'd hate to see what an American recession would do to the Canadian maple syrup industry.

And for God's sake, send more bacon!!!  <span id='postcolor'>

Dont forget beer. We all know that American beer is like sex in a rowboat!

[Schoeler 0]

Actually, my Mom is in the business of auditing doctors and the government on what they charge patients and what they spend on them, and my sister in law is a medical student, and all I have to say is that the American health care system, from what I've heard from them, is well and truly fucked. OBGYN's are no longer delivering babies in Nevada, because the malpractice insurance is more than half their salaries. Women having babies in Nevada have increasingly been having to go out of state to deliver them, and its starting to happen in other states as well. The healthcare system here is going to go into a full crisis soon. Frivolous law suits are increasingly more popular, and increasingly more successful. They won't even allow video cameras in the labor and delivery rooms anymore because the tapes were starting to turn up as "evidence" of malpractice in too many ridiculous civil suits.

HMO's are denying the proper care to their customers in an effort to cut costs, and there are entirely too many people in this country without any sort of health insurance at all. Yes, those people can still recieve health care, but by free riding, they cost the taxpayers billions.

[PFC Mongoose 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ April 11 2003,04:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">America health care system isn't the best in the world.But close to it.But i heard how bad canada health care is,Which is free,they just tax the hell outta you.I heard in canada you have to wait a month or two to see a docter.Unless it's an emergency.Also you have to wait an month/two for surgery.<span id='postcolor'>

Well, from what I gather, the waits are worse on the West coat than out east.

I haven't been in to see the Doctor in a long, long time, but I live in a small town, so getting an appointment at the clinic can vary. Sometimes I have to wait a couple of days, sometimes I can go in that day.

Dentist waits are CRAZY out here, but they aren't covered by Medicare.

As far as paying goes, I dunno what gets taken from taxes, but I pay Can$50 a month for medicare, which comes to about US$35. I bet that's a lot less than what most Americans pay for Health Insurance.