The Iraq Thread

[Balschoiw 0]

So Mr Bush is the one with the white jacket !?!

This is getting really ridiculouse !

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 02 2003,19:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A personal life that involved lying through his teeth and being disloyal and disdainful to his wife while in office.<span id='postcolor'>

Those are his own problems. Cheating on your wife is not against the law. Using cocaine and drunk driving is, but I don't see anybody holding that againt Bush. All because he is a "reborn christian". lol

[PitViper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 02 2003,13:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 02 2003,20:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ April 02 2003,19<!--emo&)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Are you saying that one should censor their personal beliefs?  <span id='postcolor'>

In a country that was outraged by Clinton's personal life, yes.<span id='postcolor'>

A personal life that involved lying through his teeth and being disloyal and disdainful to his wife while in office.

European morals, perhaps.<span id='postcolor'>

heh.. probably. I don't see the connection otherwise.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ April 02 2003,20:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So Mr Bush is the one with the white jacket !?!<span id='postcolor'>

[E6Hotel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ April 02 2003,15:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">wait , you set up a check point while you don't actually have anything like that around ?

in the few french checkpoints i've seen more or less recently recently , there were most of the time a large panel of heavy weapons ready to be used if needed , things such as .50 Hécate rifles and FR-F2's

but , i'm sure that even a trained m24 (or whatever 308 or equivalent rifle your army uses) could stop a car if trained to , a pick-up isn't an armored jeep , i doubt you'd need a SASR just to stop it<span id='postcolor'>

Keep in mind that I'm not familiar with Army T/O's, so I don't know what weapons that have available.  I can tell you from the Marine Corps standpoint:

In a Marine battalion there are a grand total of two SASR's and 8 M40's.  In addition, there are only 16 Marines authorized to fire those weapons.  A Bn CO won't give up his scout/snipers in the middle of a war to man vehicle checkpoints.

Semper Fi

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ April 02 2003,20:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In a Marine battalion there are a grand total of two SASR's and 8 M40's.  In addition, there are only 16 Marines authorized to fire those weapons.  A Bn CO won't give up his scout/snipers in the middle of a war to man vehicle checkpoints.

Semper Fi<span id='postcolor'>

Gee......... the only thing I actually understood there was "semper fi".

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ April 02 2003,19:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ April 02 2003,15:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">wait , you set up a check point while you don't actually have anything like that around ?

in the few french checkpoints i've seen more or less recently recently , there were most of the time a large panel of heavy weapons ready to be used if needed , things such as .50 Hécate rifles and FR-F2's

but , i'm sure that even a trained m24 (or whatever 308 or equivalent rifle your army uses) could stop a car if trained to , a pick-up isn't an armored jeep , i doubt you'd need a SASR just to stop it<span id='postcolor'>

Keep in mind that I'm not familiar with Army T/O's, so I don't know what weapons that have available.  I can tell you from the Marine Corps standpoint:

In a Marine battalion there are a grand total of two SASR's and 8 M40's.  In addition, there are only 16 Marines authorized to fire those weapons.  A Bn CO won't give up his scout/snipers in the middle of a war to man vehicle checkpoints.

Semper Fi<span id='postcolor'>

heh , why the batallion C/O won't give up his specialized men ? to use them as counter sniping group in the middle of the desert ? to snipe camels ?

[E6Hotel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ April 02 2003,1203)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Those soldiers concluded that the van was being driven by a bomber.  And now you've concluded that I saw your question as soon as you posted it and then spent the following 57 minutes trying to answer it.    See how easy it is to jump to the wrong conclusions.<span id='postcolor'>

Ah, but you're assuming that I assumed you spent all 57 minutes thinking about the question.  At least I assume so.

What were we talking about?

Semper Fi

[Longinius 1]

Does Bush believe in Jesus. If so, how can he advocate capital punishment and war?

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ April 02 2003,21:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What were we talking about?<span id='postcolor'>

Camel sniping.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ April 02 2003,21:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Does Bush believe in Jesus. If so, how can he advocate capital punishment and war?<span id='postcolor'>

Pardon my ignornace but where does the New Testament ban them?

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 02 2003,20:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ April 02 2003,21:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What were we talking about?<span id='postcolor'>

Camel sniping.<span id='postcolor'>

yeah , and check point vehicle long/medium range interdiction methods

[E6Hotel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ April 02 2003,20:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">heh , why the batallion C/O won't give up his specialized men ? to use them as counter sniping group in the middle of the desert ? to snipe camels ?<span id='postcolor'>

Scout/snipers do more than just take rifle shots.  They're a vital intel asset.

Semper Fi

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ April 02 2003,20:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ April 02 2003,20:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">heh , why the batallion C/O won't give up his specialized men ? to use them as counter sniping group in the middle of the desert ? to snipe camels ?<span id='postcolor'>

Scout/snipers do more than just take rifle shots.  They're a vital intel asset.

Semper Fi<span id='postcolor'>

i agree with that , but it's not impossible to detach a small group of snipers , and are the two SASR's really necessary to gather intel ? i mean , how in the hell the first army of the world still relies on its snipers in a desert warfare envirronement when they have all kinds of IR , NV and so on equipped planes and helicopters ?

[Potatoman 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 02 2003,20:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ April 02 2003,21:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Does Bush believe in Jesus. If so, how can he advocate capital punishment and war?<span id='postcolor'>

Pardon my ignornace but where does the New Testament ban them?<span id='postcolor'>

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Love thy neighbour as thyself

etc.

And I'm an atheist.

Anyway capital punishment is clearly never morally justified as is any form of revenge.

[ran 0]

anyway , E6H , i find it interesting that we confront our methods

in France , each infantry squad normally has one .308 marksman whose role is counter sniping , observation and support for the other squad members

we've got SASR groups (the PGM Hécates) at a compagny scale , last time i checked , in my reserve unit of combat engineer (that's not at all representative of the rest of the french army) , we had 2 to 4 Hécates used by the protection squads and detachements

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ April 01 2003,21:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ April 02 2003,20:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ April 02 2003,20:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">heh , why the batallion C/O won't give up his specialized men ? to use them as counter sniping group in the middle of the desert ? to snipe camels ?<span id='postcolor'>

Scout/snipers do more than just take rifle shots.  They're a vital intel asset.

Semper Fi<span id='postcolor'>

i agree with that , but it's not impossible to detach a small group of snipers , and are the two SASR's really necessary to gather intel ? i mean , how in the hell the first army of the world still relies on its snipers in a desert warfare envirronement when they have all kinds of IR , NV and so on equipped planes and helicopters ?<span id='postcolor'>

I always thought snipers could come in handy during battle...

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Potatoman @ April 02 2003,21:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Love thy neighbour as thyself.<span id='postcolor'>

That's Old Testament (Levitivus, Parshat Kedoshim Tihiyu - sorry, forgot chapter and verse numbers. ).

The Old Testament advocates capital punishment and war under numerous circumstances.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Anyway capital punishment is clearly never morally justified<span id='postcolor'>

So you believe.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">as is any form of revenge.<span id='postcolor'>

The reasons behind capital punishment may not be for revenge or that may only be part of the reason. Getting way onto religious topics here. I cease and desist.

[Longinius 1]

"Pardon my ignornace but where does the New Testament ban them?"

Turning the other cheek. Love thy neighbour. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Jesus was anything BUT supportive of killing people.

[ralphwiggum 6]

ok, less religion, more Iraq

[Longinius 1]

Ralph asked us to stop and I will. There is no sense in discussing it. I always thought Jesus was pro life, pro love and anti conflict and suffering. I thought that was his core message. Thats what I thought, and thats what I enterprited the new testament when I read it. But I guess I was wrong then and Jesus actually thought it was OK to fight, to hurt and to kill people. I guess thats why he let himself be taken by the Romans...

[Potatoman 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 02 2003,20:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ April 02 2003,21:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Love thy neighbour.<span id='postcolor'>

Well, I've already discussed that above. So is captial punishment and war outrighly forbidden, according to Christian biblical law? Is this stated anywhere? Once again, I plead ignornace on the subject.<span id='postcolor'>

Not explicitly as far as I know(I am no theologian). But basically it goes against everything jesus said. But hey when has anyone ever followed their religion except when it suits them. I guess people are more inclined to follow the old testament as it encourages all sorts of nasty things.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ April 02 2003,21:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ok, less religion, more Iraq <span id='postcolor'>

Ralph, you naughty boy! This whole issue is about Bush's religious beliefs possibly being in contradiction with the bible he claims to uphold.

Now be a good boy and retype all the posts you deleted.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Last warning to Avon and Potato man.

make a new thread abour religion or stop posting on this thread.

violation will result in 48hr PR

[E6Hotel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ April 02 2003,20:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i agree with that , but it's not impossible to detach a small group of snipers , and are the two SASR's really necessary to gather intel ?<span id='postcolor'>

It's not impossible but it would be an inefficient use of resources.  Granted, SASR's don't have much to do with the intel side of the job, but going back to the sniping side...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ April 02 2003,20:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i mean , how in the hell the first army of the world still relies on its snipers in a desert warfare envirronement when they have all kinds of IR , NV and so on equipped planes and helicopters ?<span id='postcolor'>

Eyes on beats all the gadgets listed above.

Semper Fi