The Iraq Thread

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

I doubt that the german government witholds so much information, otherwise there wouldnt have been so many official cases.

We have many companies in Germany that contribute a lot to modern warfare and therefore it is no surprise that germany is right on top of the charts. Secondly is germany the centre of european illegal trade since it represents the connective point between eastern and western states.

But the article is slick cause it implies that Schroeder does not want a war in Iraq cause he is aware of the threat that Iraq and it weapons bears and in fear that former secret trades become public. The BND (german secret service) of course has lots of information available on trade relations since after the reunification the merger of the eastern and western secret service tripled in efficiency and know how.

But as a german you can trust me on that one. Schroeder simply refuses to join the war on Iraq because this is what he promised his voters during the election. There is probably not a single nation in europe that is so afraid of war than germany and the easiest way to win an election is to promise "peace".

Now all the silly stuff that you interpret into the german decision is silly and purely hypotetical.

And I must say I agree with Schroeder to a certain extent. A war on Iraq might have a brave intentions and a good outcome, but I see that the war has also very slick intentions. And I get disgusted how many nations choose to go the US way (turkey) in order to get a piece of the cake. Even if germany doesnt get any of the future oil-trade-contracts I wont care. One thing is for sure, Germany is a nation of 85 million people and the biggest in europe, sooner or later our vote will count and untill then I hope we do not learn to prostitute our values.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Screw all you facts and figures cause they hide the real ugly face of war. And as a german I can tell you that you gonna kill a lot of teenagers at the age of 17 upward. Those teenagers that have no ideological involvement with war but will be pulled into the army in case of war (do you see the connection with germany?). Can they refuse? No! Do they have a chance of survival? Do you have the guts to look into one of their faces and tell him: Listen, Saddam is an evil man, that is why we have to start a war and kill you!" You are destroying innocent lifes..and even soldiers can be innocent people. I hope one day some of you meet an Iraqi in an Kebab-quick-restaurant and have to explain to him why his little brother had to die! And suprisingly silly figures and stats wont convince him!

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Feb. 07 2003,18:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Either consciously or subconsciously, everyone has their own way of  sizing up another person's intelligence.  Many rely on certain words that serve as touchstones because they are often mispronounced by the... uhh... "intellectually challenged."  For me, one of these words is nuclear.

The correct pronunciation is:  new - klee - ur

I've just heard Bush pronounce it:  new - cue - ler

In the words of a famous baseball game announcer, "That guy always ceases to amaze me."<span id='postcolor'>

What about potato? Lot of people pronounce it PO-ta-to. A lot of people pronunce it po-TA-to. Same with tomato. Same with nuclear. I pronounce monster like the cheese muenster. I also say umbrella like UM-bre-la.

It depends on where you are from and what your accent is. Are New Englander's stupid because they put an -r after a lot of words? Since when is someone stupid because they don't pronounce a word the way YOU do?

Your comment borders on elitist intellectual arrogancy.

[Mister 5 0]

Bush's mispronunciation of the word nuclear is really more of a regional thing. Many people from the Southern US, like Bush, say it the same way, and that doesn't really make them stupid, it's just a part of their accent.

I also found this little tidbit on dictionary.com:

Usage Note: The pronunciation (noo kye-ler), which is generally considered incorrect, is an example of how a familiar phonological pattern can influence an unfamiliar one. The usual pronunciation of the final two syllables of this word is (-klee-er), but this sequence of sounds is rare in English. Much more common is the similar sequence (-kye-ler), which occurs in words like particular, circular, spectacular, and in many scientific words like molecular, ocular, and vascular.

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ Feb. 08 2003,03:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You are destroying innocent lifes..and even soldiers can be innocent people. I hope one day some of you meet an Iraqi in an Kebab-quick-restaurant and have to explain to him why his little brother had to die! And suprisingly silly figures and stats wont convince him!<span id='postcolor'>

How do you know you're not destroying innocent lifes by not going to war?

[Warin 0]

I've got to agree that making fun of Bush for one of the more commonly misprounounced words is sort of peurile.  However, making fun of him for statements like:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It seems odd that with all the history it contains, this great building went more than a century without a name befitting its dignity. We've solved that problem today, and we've solved it once and for all. This building now bears the name of Dwight D. Eisenhower.

-- Actually, the Dwight D. Eisenhower Executive Office Building has been called by this name since Nov. 1999, when President Clinton signed the bill into law, Washington, D.C., May 7, 2002<span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My trip to Asia begins here in Japan for an important reason. It begins here because for a century and a half now, America and Japan have formed one of the great and enduring alliances of modern times. From that alliance has come an era of peace in the Pacific.  

-- With the minor exception of World War II, which brought something entirely different to the Pacific, Remarks to the Diet, Tokyo, Japan, Feb. 18, 2002<span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I appreciate so very much the Prime Minister, Jean Chretien, for joining us here. He has been a steadfast friend. I really enjoy dealing with him on a personal basis. He's a plain-spoken fellow, with a good sense of humor. Probably won't go too good up here in Canada, but he'd be a great Texan.

-- It would go even better if you were in Canada, Dubya, Detroit, Michigan, Sep. 9, 2002<span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The only thing I know about Slovakia is what I learned first-hand from your foreign minister, who came to Texas.

-- To a Slovak journalist as quoted by Knight Ridder News Service, June 22, 1999. Bush's meeting was with Janez Drnovsek, the prime minister of Slovenia.<span id='postcolor'>

cant really be considered as such.

All quotes were shamelessly lifted from dubyaspeak.com and have been verified as accurate.

[Mister 5 0]

I agree. And the pacific one is priceless .

[Akira 0]

Clinton On Iraq

Interesting part here:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">He said Bush is "doing the right thing now" by gathering international support, but said he doesn't believe another U.N. resolution is needed to go to war with iraq.

"As a matter of international law, I don't think it's required," Clinton said. <span id='postcolor'>

On another side note, Clinton will be speaking here in Austin soon (forgot the date). He was going to speak at the University of Texas, but so many people showed up for tickets that they moved it to the Erwin Center (where concerts and the like take place).

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Feb. 07 2003,18:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ Feb. 08 2003,03:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You are destroying innocent lifes..and even soldiers can be innocent people. I hope one day some of you meet an Iraqi in an Kebab-quick-restaurant and have to explain to him why his little brother had to die! And suprisingly silly figures and stats wont convince him!<span id='postcolor'>

How do you know you're not destroying innocent lifes by not going to war?<span id='postcolor'>

How do you know if the brick you throw on the highway won't hit a criminals car?

[Major Fubar 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Feb. 08 2003,00:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ Feb. 08 2003,03:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You are destroying innocent lifes..and even soldiers can be innocent people. I hope one day some of you meet an Iraqi in an Kebab-quick-restaurant and have to explain to him why his little brother had to die! And suprisingly silly figures and stats wont convince him!<span id='postcolor'>

How do you know you're not destroying innocent lifes by not going to war?<span id='postcolor'>

Objection your honor, speculation!

[Akira 0]

The Choice For Iraqs Conscript Army

Undoubtedly to be dismissed as propoganda.

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Major Fubar @ Feb. 08 2003,06:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Objection your honor, speculation!  <span id='postcolor'>

That's my point, it's speculation both ways.

And how can you make fun of Bush for mistakes his speech writer made? If he was speaking impromtu I'd agree with you (actually I'd point out that everybody needs to research before speaking, anyway), but if it was a written speech it's hardly his fault.

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Feb. 07 2003,20:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Major Fubar @ Feb. 08 2003,06:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Objection your honor, speculation! <span id='postcolor'>

That's my point, it's speculation both ways.<span id='postcolor'>

FINALLY, finally this debate with FSPilot is over...

since it is crazy to go to war on pure speculation, we rest our case.

Next item on the agenda, disarming Bush. We start by letting President G. W. Bush speak for the prosecution.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Feb. 07 2003,21:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Bush is a bad public speaker, that doesn't make him stupid.<span id='postcolor'>

Bush is actually a good public speaker, but that doesn't make him intellegent.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ Feb. 07 2003,23:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Your comment borders on elitist intellectual arrogancy.<span id='postcolor'>

Read the freakin' word, Akira:  NU - CLE - AR

Is it really so difficult for you?  Pleanty of people can manage it without special training.  Pronouncing it correctly is not that tough and certainly nothing to be proud of.  What a shame that it's too much to ask of the commander and chief of the US armed forces about to throw the planet into a major conflict.

[Cloney 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ Feb. 08 2003,02:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The Choice For Iraqs Conscript Army

Undoubtedly to be dismissed as propoganda.<span id='postcolor'>

Undoubtedly!

I read the arcticle and it is clear evidence that the Iraqi lacks any war fighting ability. How can you expected soldiers to be loyal to you when you treat them like shit?

The Republican Guards have probably been endoctrinated with the "The Americans will shoot you and rape your wives if you surrender!", crap.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"We want America to attack because of the bad situation in our country. But we don't want America to launch air strikes against Iraqi soldiers because we are forced to shoot and defend. We are also victims in this situation."

<span id='postcolor'>

Tough shit buddy, We aren't going to be taking any chances this time. Your buddies are probably going to be bombed back into paste. If they are smart (like you) they'd get running.

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Feb. 08 2003,08:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">FINALLY, finally this debate with FSPilot is over...  

since it is crazy to go to war on pure speculation, we rest our case.  <span id='postcolor'>

Agree to disagree until something happens?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Bush is actually a good public speaker, but that doesn't make him intellegent.<span id='postcolor'>

He has good qualities and bad qualities.  Frankly, he's better than Al Gore.  Gore is boring, but Bush speaks with his hands and uses his voice.  At least IMO.  I've only taken two public speaking courses, I'm positive someone else has taken 8 at this board.

Anyway, if you judge a president by how he speaks and not by his policies, please don't vote.

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Read the freakin' word, Akira:  NU - CLE - AR

Is it really so difficult for you?  Pleanty of people can manage it without special training.  Pronouncing it correctly is not that tough and certainly nothing to be proud of.  What a shame that it's too much to ask of the commander and chief of the US armed forces about to throw the planet into a major conflict.<span id='postcolor'>

Then you completely missed the point of my post.

And this enlightening bit as well:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">nu·cle·ar    Pronunciation Key  (nkl-r, ny-)

adj. Biology. Of, relating to, or forming a nucleus: a nuclear membrane.

Physics. Of or relating to atomic nuclei: a nuclear chain reaction.

Using or derived from the energy of atomic nuclei: nuclear power.

Of, using, or possessing atomic or hydrogen bombs: nuclear war; nuclear nations.

[From nucleus.] Usage Note: The pronunciation (nky-lr), which is generally considered incorrect, is an example of how a familiar phonological pattern can influence an unfamiliar one. The usual pronunciation of the final two syllables of this word is (-kl-r), but this sequence of sounds is rare in English. Much more common is the similar sequence (-ky-lr), which occurs in words like particular, circular, spectacular, and in many scientific words like molecular, ocular, and vascular.<span id='postcolor'>

Your assumption was Bush is stupid for not pronouncing a word as you deemed "correct." Failing to take in account regional accents, among other thousands of consideration for pronunciation.

As I said are New Englanders stupid for adding -r sounds to the ends of words that don't have it? Am I stupid because I may not say a word the way you think it should be pronounced?

There are plenty of reasons to call Bush stupid. I don't think that is one of them. Unless of course you think 90% of the world is stupid.

[bn880 5]

I think "we" should drop this pronounciation discussion, it can only make Americans more defensive, and this way we won't have any real progress.

Personally, I try to stick to the way everything is written, but in English it's completely hopeless. In German, Polish, Czech, and other languages, you know almost exactly how to pronounce everyhting just from reading it, even for the first time. Not so in English.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Mayor Bloomberg and Police Commissioner Kelly are doing the people of New York and the people of Iraq a great service by delaying and obstructing the anti-war protest planned for February 15. The longer they delay in granting the protesters a permit, the less time the organizers have to get their turnout organized, and the smaller the crowd is likely to be.

-- NY Sun<span id='postcolor'>

Welcome to the new dark age of American freedom.  

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Feb. 08 2003,04:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In German, Polish, Czech, and other languages, you know almost exactly how to pronounce everyhting just from reading it, even for the first time.  Not so in English.<span id='postcolor'>

No kidding, I remember back when I was just learning english, I had to read out loud an article about the Niger river in English class.   I'll give you one guess as to how I pronounced it.  

[Cloney 0]

*frustrated*

I'm sure its really easy to pronounce words from those languages if you are rasied speaking them. Lets remember that German and English are closely related. It would probably be hard for anyone learning a foreign language to pronounce words correctly if they've never heard them before in their life.

I'm sure I'd pronounce a word in polish perfectly if I saw it for the first time. Oh hell yea, 3 consonants in a row is real easy to pronounce.

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Feb. 08 2003,04:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Mayor Bloomberg and Police Commissioner Kelly are doing the people of New York and the people of Iraq a great service by delaying and obstructing the anti-war protest planned for February 15. The longer they delay in granting the protesters a permit, the less time the organizers have to get their turnout organized, and the smaller the crowd is likely to be.

-- NY Sun<span id='postcolor'>

Welcome to the new dark age of American freedom.  <span id='postcolor'>

I also read that they are making a Patriot Act II.

Here's the link:

Patriot Act II

And no it ain't got anything to do with Whoopie Goldberg.....

PS The link for the Bill is horribly slow. I got 1K speed on a 12MB PDF.

[Mister 5 0]

Damn, that's a pretty cruel thing for a teacher to make someone who is just learning english read aloud.

And about the languages, I think bn was saying that once a person knows the basic rules of languages like czech and polish, it becomes very easy to pronounce any word based on its spelling. As you know, this is not always so in english, where one configuration of letters is pronounced differently from word to word. English seems to have less consistency in this area than other languages.

Just a slight misunderstanding, I think.

[SirLoins 0]

A little game for our European friends that don't understand English.

1) The bandage was wound around the wound.

2) The farm was used to produce produce.

3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.

4) We must polish the Polish furniture.

5) He could lead if he would get the lead out.

6) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.

7) Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present.

8) A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.

9) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.

10) I did not object to the object.

11) The insurance was invalid for the invalid.

12) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.

13) They were too close to the door to close it.

14) The buck does funny things when the does are present.

15) A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line.

16) To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow.

17) The wind was too strong to wind the sail.

18) After a number of injections my jaw got number.

19) Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.

20) I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.

21) How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?

I never thought you guys would stoop so low as to making fun of a person because they pronounce words different that you.

If you were ever lucky enought to visit Texas (my birthplace) you would find the people there a lot more tolerant, friendly and unbiased towards YOUR pronounciation of the english language.

But then again this IS the fuck George Bush any way, any how, any time forum, is it not?

[red oct 2]

2--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SirLoins @ Feb. 08 2003,062)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A little game for our European friends that don't understand English.

1) The bandage was wound around the wound.

2) The farm was used to produce produce.

3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.

4) We must polish the Polish furniture.

5) He could lead if he would get the lead out.

6) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.

7) Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to  present the present.

8) A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.

9) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.

10) I did not object to the object.

11) The insurance was invalid for the invalid.

12) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.

13) They were too close to the door to close it.

14) The buck does funny things when the does are present.

15) A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line.

16) To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow.

17) The wind was too strong to wind the sail.

18) After a number of injections my jaw got number.

19) Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.

20) I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.

21) How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?

I never thought you guys would stoop so low as to making fun of a person because they pronounce words different that you.

If you were ever lucky enought to visit Texas (my birthplace) you would find the people there a lot more tolerant, friendly and unbiased towards YOUR pronounciation of the english language.

But then again this IS the fuck George Bush any way, any how, any time forum, is it not?<span id='postcolor'>

forgot about how the past and present(hahaha! i made a funny ) tense of read are both spelled the same

Past tense: read (pronounced: red)

present tense: read (pronounced: reed)

don't feel bad gets me sometimes too. also american language always has a increase in vocabulary by at most 10 words every couple of years