Iao

[Bart.Jan 0]

I read about IAO (Information Awarness Office) at Zvedavec - czech web page.

It's about near future system that can monitor all interenet communication.

There is another english web page about it : http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/11/18/10722/984

And official IAO web page : http://www.darpa.mil/iao/

I do not have enough words to describe my very bad feeling about it. It's like from Orwell's 1984.

How it's possible to have John Poindexter as leader of this project ? (some information about him at english page above) I think this project must be leaded by someone responsible and trustworthy. How can I trust to something that is leaded by "criminal" ? Is this project really necessary ?

Isn't the whole idea of this project against US law ?

I read that USA Patriot Act destroyed about 15 laws about freedom. Is this another step or something new how to cancel more rights ?

I don't have much informations about US generally but from informations I gathered I think that it's the end of US freedom. That there will be no democracy but democratism.

DARPA; all seeing eye = sign of illuminati ? It also looks like Deus Ex scenario.  

[Assault (CAN) 1]

I heard about this on the news yesterday. I hear some governments want to implemnt it but the info would only be stored temporarily. It would be used to catch 'cyber criminals'.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I read that USA Patriot Act destroyed about 15 laws about freedom. <span id='postcolor'>

After the attacks of September the eleventh, some scared and stupid people actually said that they would give up some personal freedoms in order to be more 'secure'. Has anyone known of a government that has willingly given up acquired power?

The national I.D. stuff scares me too. Hey why bother with a card, just tatoo a barcode on our foreheads at birth! Might save some money.

Remember, governments don't have the power to grant people freedom, (it is theirs from the moment of birth) it can only take freedom away.

Tyler

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Nov. 28 2002,21:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Remember, governments don't have the power to grant people freedom, (it is theirs from the moment of birth) it can only take freedom away.<span id='postcolor'>

I wouldn't agree to that. The 'human rights' are social constructions. They are not in any way dictated by nature or our biological functions. Also we have all been educated (brainwashed some would say ) that these civil and human rights are the greatest things in the world. That is questionable.

I would for instance gladly give up my right to run for office for a right to get a shitload of chicks and money Why don't we have a right like that?

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I wouldn't agree to that. <span id='postcolor'>

Coming from a socialist background, I'm not surprised that you disagree.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why don't we have a right like that?<span id='postcolor'>

Because if you took all the hot chicks and money for yourself, you would be infringing on other peoples right to have the same thing. Besides, being succesful isn't a right. You have to work towards it like the rest of us.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

Scary.

[edit - damn, I had to copy and paste six different images just to get that]

Some of the technologies under development include:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

-Collaboration and sharing over TCP/IP networks across agency boundaries

-Large, distributed repositories with dynamic schemas that can be changed interactively by users

-Foreign language machine translation and speech recognition

-Biometric signatures of humans

-Real time learning, pattern matching and anomalous pattern detection

-Entity extraction from natural language text

-Human network analysis and behavior model building engines

-Event prediction and capability development model building engines

-Structured argumentation and evidential reasoning

-Story telling, change detection, and truth maintenance

-Business rules sub-systems for access control and process management

-Biologically inspired algorithms for agent control

-Other aids for human cognition and human reasoning

<span id='postcolor'>

If this doesn't cause concern to a large amout of people in the U.S., then they are in trouble. Maybe even the rest of us as well. Other governments might use this program as a precedence to start their own.

Very scary.

Tyler

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Nov. 28 2002,22:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Coming from a socialist background, I'm not surprised that you disagree.  <span id='postcolor'>

I think this is quite amusing, since by Swedish standards I am fairly right wing

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Besides, being succesful isn't a right. You have to work towards it like the rest of us.<span id='postcolor'>

You might say the same for freedom. That you have to earn it. That you should have no say on how the country is run if you don't do anything for it.

Now, I don't necessarily agree with that, but I think it is good to keep in mind that these notions are all social constructions that can be one way or the other and not absolute truth.

Now as for the topic, I wouldn't worry to much. The ability of processing information is countered by the enourmous information growth. Even if they could tap every phone line and read every e-mail, they would have no real way of processing it all and much less to interpret it to weed out the real stuff from irrelevant.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 28 2002,22:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Even if they could tap every phone line and read every e-mail, they would have no real way of processing it all and much less to interpret it to weed out the real stuff from irrelevant.<span id='postcolor'>

True. I already have this problem with my email accounts

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Nov. 28 2002,22:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Some of the technologies under development include:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

-Collaboration and sharing over TCP/IP networks across agency boundaries

-Large, distributed repositories with dynamic schemas that can be changed interactively by users

-Foreign language machine translation and speech recognition

-Biometric signatures of humans

-Real time learning, pattern matching and anomalous pattern detection

-Entity extraction from natural language text

-Human network analysis and behavior model building engines

-Event prediction and capability development model building engines

-Structured argumentation and evidential reasoning

-Story telling, change detection, and truth maintenance

-Business rules sub-systems for access control and process management

-Biologically inspired algorithms for agent control

-Other aids for human cognition and human reasoning

<span id='postcolor'>

Very scary.<span id='postcolor'>

I don't call that scary. I call it job opportunities (my field is adaptive algorithms and neural networks, which are used for these things)

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 28 2002,22:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't call that scary. I call it job opportunities (my field is adaptive algorithms and neural networks, which are used for these things)<span id='postcolor'>

Great! Next thing you know denoir'll be moderating the entire Internet!

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think this is quite amusing, since by Swedish standards I am fairly right wing <span id='postcolor'>

Well, by my standards, your a card carrying commie.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Even if they could tap every phone line and read every e-mail, they would have no real way of processing it all and much less to interpret it to weed out the real stuff from irrelevant.<span id='postcolor'>

Really?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">-Entity extraction from natural language text<span id='postcolor'>

Give em' time.

[Bart.Jan 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 28 2002,22:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now as for the topic, I wouldn't worry to much. The ability of processing information is countered by the enourmous information growth. Even if they could tap every phone line and read every e-mail, they would have no real way of processing it all and much less to interpret it to weed out the real stuff from irrelevant.<span id='postcolor'>

It means that system can not work effectively in general. But if they catch some little info about you, they can monitor effectively all your communication.

It can be bad threat-tracking tool, but it can be very good spy tool. Spying and blackmailing people on high posts, industry and military espionage.

And there are some interesting technologies that will be used in the project. I think project can be successly finished even there will be enormous amount of informations to filter.

[Sam Samson 0]

did you guys never hear about echelon?

echelon was/is used to monitor all telecommunications traffic in europe. has been for years and the info about it is unclassified.

you don't know half of what the US government can do and already does.

...and it's still not all-powerful as 9/11 proved.

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Nov. 28 2002,23:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">...and it's still not all-powerful as 9/11 proved.<span id='postcolor'>

It isnt about being all powerful.

It's about exposing the hypopcrisy of a government that talks about how wonderful freedom is, when they pry into peoples privacy in a way that makes the east german stasi look like a bunch of boy scouts.

Not America bashing... just point out that some governmental groups dont seem to think that privacy is a vital component of 'freedom'

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Nov. 28 2002,23:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">...and it's still not all-powerful as 9/11 proved.<span id='postcolor'>

Echelon's primary function is business espionage, not military.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

It's a problem, because 'security' and 'freedom' are almost mutually exclusive terms. We want the ability to keep America secure, but how do we do that without destroying the freedom we are trying to protect? These are problems that America's security organizations have to deal with every day, and I don't know if I can completely blame them for erring on the side of caution. But in this instance, I am bothered by the new security bill, because I thought I was pretty safe to begin with, and dont feel like they need to be able to track my law abiding ass with a satellite just to make the country safer.

[second_draw 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Nov. 28 2002,23:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">did you guys never hear about echelon?

echelon was/is used to monitor all telecommunications traffic in europe. has been for years and the info about it is unclassified.

you don't know half of what the US government can do and already does.<span id='postcolor'>

did you hear what denior said

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Even if they could tap every phone line and read every e-mail, they would have no real way of processing it all and much less to interpret it to weed out the real stuff from irrelevant.<span id='postcolor'>

echelon only reads/scans plaintext for keywords, although if you are mentioning bomb and stuff like that ,it will then record your message. Essentally if you call a bomb denior's pet or send your message in a simple cipher, then your can cause problems for echelon. Although don't quote me on that, i do not know how echelon works other then some reports.

EDIT: spelling

[Balschoiw 0]

Yes. In my opinion governments use fear within public (not only US ) to get themselves even more control of the people.

What about the NSA in this context ?

Their building is not emitting ANY waves or electronic traces like buildings, comps, phones....do .

It is also protected against EMP (Electro magnetic pulse) weapons.

I guess they are doing real secret jobs there. Aren´t they said to check most telecom transmissons on the planet ?

Anyone knows more ?

Besides that I am always tempted to hang my a** out of the window when a IR Tornado comes low over the hill I live on.

They go in 15 - 20 m height so they should get nice pic´s

[NurEinMensch 0]

10 of the 13 DNS-root-server are located in the US. And are controlled by Icann and (especially the A-root-server) the US government.

The other 3 are located in Stockholm (I-root), London (K-root) and Tokio (M-root).

Europe needs to build own structures. Right now the whole internet is far too centralized.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (second_draw @ Nov. 29 2002,00:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">echelon only reads/scans plaintext for keywords, although if you are mentioning bomb and stuff like that ,it will then record your message.<span id='postcolor'>

Amusing way to spend American tax money :

Call a random number in USA via satellite phone. In four or five different languages say "Kill, president of the united states, osama, big bomb, nuclear, allah is great".

It will trigger the following events:

1) Your talk will be recorded and flagged by Echelon.

2) A junior NIO at NSA will listen to the message and conclude that he doesn't understand it.

3) Four or five linguist will be brought in to translate the text.

4) One or several senior analysts will try to figure the message out.

The downside: the next day you might get an unexpected visit from a tomahawk cruise missile

[madmedic 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 28 2002,21:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I would for instance gladly give up my right to run for office for a right to get a shitload of chicks and money Why don't we have a right like that?<span id='postcolor'>

Umm,...last I checked, you DO have the right to get a shitload of chicks and money....That is a question of ABILITY, not RIGHT he he

A Government has only so much power as the people will allow it...and Any man who would give up rights, does not deserve them in the first place.

[second_draw 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 29 2002,00:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (second_draw @ Nov. 29 2002,00:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">echelon only reads/scans plaintext for keywords, although if you are mentioning bomb and stuff like that ,it will then record your message.<span id='postcolor'>

Amusing way to spend American tax money :

Call a random number in USA via satellite phone. In four or five different languages say "Kill, president of the united states, osama, big bomb, nuclear, allah is great".

It will trigger the following events:

1) Your talk will be recorded and flagged by Echelon.

2) A junior NIO at NSA will listen to the message and conclude that he doesn't understand it.

3) Four or five linguist will be brought in to translate the text.

4) One or several senior analysts will try to figure the message out.

The downside: the next day you might get an unexpected visit from a tomahawk cruise missile <span id='postcolor'>

lol, exactly

[second_draw 0]

Just like to note that most/all western countries have agreed to this as they will gain infomation theselves. USA ain't involved in a stupid conspiracy. When you think about it, echelon is basically just one big global phone tap.

[Balschoiw 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just like to note that most/all western countries have agreed to this as they will gain infomation theselves. <span id='postcolor'>

Not true. Germany insist on opening echelon protocols, cause there are several patent pendings that have been stolen. We have an assumed echelon dish here near munich and the government is not happy about it.

[second_draw 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ Nov. 29 2002,01:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just like to note that most/all western countries have agreed to this as they will gain infomation theselves. <span id='postcolor'>

Not true. Germany insist on opening echelon protocols, cause there are several patent pendings that have been stolen. We have an assumed echelon dish here near munich and the government is not happy about it.<span id='postcolor'>

[Bart.Jan 0]

I found another "pearl" : TIPS - The Terrorism Information and Prevention System

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/14/1026185141232.html

It worked well in communistic Czechoslovakia.

I found almost no information about TIPS in czech media.