Some day, all wars will be fought like this?

[Balschoiw 0]

Only wanted to add a little detail to this discussion.

Northern Nigeria : Christian religion

Southern Nigeria: Muslim religion

The newswriter said that even Mohammed would choose one of this ladies as his wife. This was a direct slap into the faces of the muslim inhabitants. So no wonder they make a fuzz.

If you have ever been to Africa and know that a man´s life isnt worth a cent there you would understand that a total bill of 80 deads isnt that much. They kill complete families for technical goods they even cant use afterwards cause the village has no electricity, but that´s the way it is.

We are not in the position to judge if it is right or wrong we have to accept it as fact cause we dont live there. One thing I learnt over the years is that I will not be able to understand most cultures as they are but I have to accept their motives and lifestyle. If I go to Singapore I wont have chewing gum in my luggage as I know there is a 500 $ fine on chewing gum in Singapore. I simply have to take this as fact and try to live with it. BTW Singapore is a great place to be. Check it out someday, you´ll love it. But dont have any drugs with you, cause you will be executed in public. They have 2 to 5 executions weekly and they are well visited by Singapore citizens.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Nov. 23 2002,00:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ Nov. 23 2002,00:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This is the sort of thing why I'm an atheist .<span id='postcolor'>

Don't look at the actions of man instead of the religion istelf.<span id='postcolor'>

And what if the actions of the man are based on religion? Don't get me wrong, I have lots of religious friends, from most of the major religions, and I don't respect any them any less for it. As a matter of fact, after I came to Canada I started going to church every day and did so for about five years, but a few life experiences, disagreement with some of the things the priests were preaching, and knowledge of events such as these in the end made me decide it wasn't for me. Heck my mom's still pissed somewhat at me over it

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ Nov. 23 2002,01:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If I go to Singapore I wont have chewing gum in my luggage as I know there is a 500 $ fine on chewing gum in Singapore.<span id='postcolor'>

i heard it is soon to be changed

[Supah 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ Nov. 22 2002,19:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It's not the point if they see it or not. In their religion it's considered sinful. They're the majority, and they don't want it happening in their country, especially during Ramadan. It's another example of a government with it's head buried deeply up it's ass.

I'm not saying they're right in the violence they are comitting, it boggles the mind that people keep acting this way in the name of God, but it's not like the Christians there are behaving themselves either. This is the sort of thing why I'm an atheist .<span id='postcolor'>

Very right in their religion its considered sinfull but they think they can ram their religion down the throats of other people yet again. BTW the idiot saying that mohammed would have wanted one of them as his wife in his day should be sued at the very least. Talk about incitement. I am not religious so i dont really care about all that stuff but you are respect to just blanketly respect religious stuff, well it should work the other way aournd. I'd like to see the day that religious people respect my right as a non-believer to swear !

[Sam Samson 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Nov. 23 2002,00:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">...but then again, you are asking for equality, when someone who is suppose to be morally higher acts like the morally inferior person. so stakes should be higher for the morally higher person (just a thought)<span id='postcolor'>

I understand where you're coming from, but with that last statement you're coming awfully close to a double standard...

let's stick with treating everybody the same.

btw, mohammed, islam and women..., just a side thought:

although the koran allows for only 4 women per man, allah made an exception for him and he married 9, his youngest wife being fatima, the daughter of his comrade abu bakr - the first caliph, the one who died of natural causes. she was 9 when they wed.

arabian nights, the collection of stories from around 800 a.d.

did you ever read (or start to read) the real version? not the one for kids?

pretty ummm... juicy. some of that stuff would be classified as porn today. they obviously weren't always prudish.

but then again: the sultan has every one of his brides killed the morning after their wedding, until scheherazade and her sister come in and entertain him for 1001 nights... with stories...

balshoiw is right concerning the murderousness of africa. you literally take your life in your hands when you mess around down there.

why would anybody in their right mind have a miss-contest there? it's bound to become just that.

[Renagade 0]

Can we say a percentage of muslims are stupids or call the ku klax klan idiots too ??

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Can we say a percentage of muslims are stupids or call the ku klax klan idiots too ?? <span id='postcolor'>

Anyone who hates or kills because of what someone is or isn't is an idiot.

Should have clairified that last time.

[Sam Samson 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Renagade @ Nov. 23 2002,21:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Can we say a percentage of muslims are stupids or call the ku klax klan idiots too ?? <span id='postcolor'>

before the moslem world en large subscribed to the notion of kismet - fate, everything is dictated from above, no personal growth possible or desired - they produced some astounding cultural progress, when they weren't busy making war.

I personally think moorish architecture is fabulous.

and their numerals, just thing you'd have to do fractions in roman letters!

but considering all 1400 years of islam, I'm not all that impressed. especially lately.

[Supah 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Nov. 23 2002,21:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">but considering all 1400 years of islam, I'm not all that impressed. especially lately.<span id='postcolor'>

I recently had an article that the town i live in (5000 inhabitants ... broad band internet connection availeble) Probably has more internet connectivity then the entire arabian peninsula put together think that says enough. Though at one time muslim dominated countries did some great things (invented the compas (or its predecessor)) modern mathmatics and alikes ... where it all went wrong .. who knows really... the last 100 (mb even 200) they just kinda stood still. Though looking at some of the crap we have on TV here now i cant blame them BigBrother ...

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Nov. 23 2002,21:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">arabian nights, the collection of stories from around 800 a.d.

did you ever read (or start to read) the real version? not the one for kids?

pretty ummm... juicy. some of that stuff would be classified as porn today. they obviously weren't always prudish.

but then again: the sultan has every one of his brides killed the morning after their wedding, until scheherazade and her sister come in and entertain him for 1001 nights... with stories...<span id='postcolor'>

ever wonder why it's called ARABIAN nights, not Muslim nights

If i remember correctly, that king went nuts after his first wife cheated on him and they didn't have Billy Crystal back then, so I guess he abused his power and tried to *cope* with his shock.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">why would anybody in their right mind have a miss-contest there? it's bound to become just that.<span id='postcolor'>

we are talking about Miss blah blah blah pagent agency. they don't know a shit.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">and their numerals, just thing you'd have to do fractions in roman letters!<span id='postcolor'>

If i remember correctly, India is where they got that from.

[MesserJockel 0]

well, our christian culture spent most of the middle age preserving and copying lots of arabian literature. for instance avicenna (dont know his original name), who gave galen and other christian "auctoritates" a decent forward push in medical knowledge. its a strange fact, that our culture prospered and flourished, while the islamic countries suffered some stagnation actually. i do not have enough knowledge in these matters to suggest some reasons for that, but kinda remembers me of the roman empire in the early middle ages.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Nov. 23 2002,21:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">arabian nights, the collection of stories from around 800 a.d.

did you ever read (or start to read) the real version? not the one for kids?

pretty ummm... juicy. some of that stuff would be classified as porn today. they obviously weren't always prudish.<span id='postcolor'>

LOL my dad got me that one when I was 7 or 8 . I was a bookworm and he didn't know it was "juicy". He apparently found out from a friend or a coworker about it after I was half-way reading it, and jokingly asked me about it (Great read as I remember, all "porn" content aside ). Basically what he said was "If I knew it had that kind of stuff I wouldn't have gotten it for you, just don't let your mom read it" .

[foxer 0]

Those people on that side of the world is CrAzY.Maybe it's just a 3rd country thing,i don't know.But africa has some Problems.Like i was reading today in an south africa jail they was using aids as weapon.How ? Well if you don't go along with them or something the guy with aids would rape you.How bout in 93 with the whole black hawk going down thing.They took dead bodies and just ran up and down the street cheering.

[Balschoiw 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Those people on that side of the world is CrAzY<span id='postcolor'>

They tell the same thing about us. It´s only the point of view.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They took dead bodies and just ran up and down the street cheering.<span id='postcolor'>

...whilst we have focus cleaned TV shows about war and the great effects of modern weapons. Same with us.

We are not that different.

[Sam Samson 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MesserJockel @ Nov. 24 2002,05:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">well, our christian culture spent most of the  middle age preserving and copying lots of arabian literature. for instance avicenna (dont know his original name), who gave galen and other christian "auctoritates" a decent forward push in medical knowledge. its a strange fact, that our culture prospered and flourished, while the islamic countries suffered some stagnation actually. i do not have enough knowledge in these matters to suggest some reasons for that, but kinda remembers me of the roman empire in the early middle ages.<span id='postcolor'>

umm..., wasn't galen pre-christian greek? like hippocrates and his oath?

in any case you're right, roughly around the 10th century the moslem culture had its climax, and the world greatly profited from their thinkers.

about why their culture floundered: it's like i said before: a matter of theology, which around that time started to stifle personal growth and development.

as long as they built on their strengths and used their talents, they moved on. when they took that element out, they mummified.

in my thinking this is also the reason why the west is leading the world today: they believe in personal growth and development, building on your strenghts.

in a free society you'll get somewhere with that philosophy.

the beginning of that tremendous advancement on every level in the west - don't laugh at me - also has its roots in theology.

it started precisely with the reformation, when the syncretism was washed out of christianity.

for instance, follow the line back in the US and you'll find that their capitalist system grew out of the calvinist thinking that wealth is a sign of the favor of God and nothing to be bashful about.

compare that to the mindset of barely-get-along, poverty-is-great medieval christianity in europe...

*forces himself to shut up now*

[brgnorway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Nov. 24 2002,20:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">about why their culture floundered: it's like i said before: a matter of theology, which around that time started to stifle personal growth and development.

as long as they built on their strengths and used their talents, they moved on. when they took that element out, they mummified.<span id='postcolor'>

Well, not realy no... but because of competition (I'll keep this simple instead of writing a scientific paper )....and the next thing you say has something to do with it yes:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">in my thinking this is also the reason why the west is leading the world today: they believe in personal growth and development, building on your strenghts.

in a free society you'll get somewhere with that philosophy.

<span id='postcolor'>

There are many reasons for the muslim world lagging behind in wealth. Both the western and the "arabic/muslim" worlds have expanded because of conquering and trade, both worlds highly succesfull at times as well. The first sign of a change in mentality towards God the almighty was not with calvinists or Marting Luthers reformation but with the city-states of renesaince Italy. It was in the cities of Firenze, Verona etc. that tradesmen and their gilds (is this the correct english word for the norwegian "laug") became more ever more powerfull. This lead to a dramatic change. The church was not more the sole purchaser of art and crafts. The driving force behind this was that the belief of sacrificing oneself to God instead turned into enabeling ones personal abilities as Gods intention. You were all of a sudden supposed to do your best in everything because it was Gods will. You were not longer meant to punish yourself in humiliation.