War on iraq

[advocatexxx 0]

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/11/13/iraq.un/index.html

There may be no war after all if Iraq keeps its promise it made today

[sseagle 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 12 2002,19:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Nov. 13 2002,00:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm still shocked they got an

I am however surprised that they downed so few aircraft. I don't have the figures in my head but it was something like 15 F-16's a couple of Tornados two Awacs birds some F-15's (don't remember how many) and of course the famed F-117. These are of course numbers given by NATO. The Serbs claimed something like 300 planes downed, which should be regarded with great scepticism.<span id='postcolor'><span id='postcolor'>

When did they shoot down an AWACS? Anyone gotta link to a story?

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Would you like to have sea-view or land-view. The guys in the front didnt need a slide, cause they could have simply jumped into the water, but the guys getting out in the back they needed one not to fall on the rocks! But hell the slide is in the front!

[BaronVonRed 0]

Here is the proposal reworded for OFP fans:

Saddam: you can let us inspect the buildings, or we can inspect their ashes, whichever you prefer....

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (sseagle @ Nov. 13 2002,12:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 12 2002,19:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Nov. 13 2002,00:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm still shocked they got an

I am however surprised that they downed so few aircraft. I don't have the figures in my head but it was something like 15 F-16's a couple of Tornados two Awacs birds some F-15's (don't remember how many) and of course the famed F-117. These are of course numbers given by NATO. The Serbs claimed something like 300 planes downed, which should be regarded with great scepticism.<span id='postcolor'><span id='postcolor'>

When did they shoot down an AWACS? Anyone gotta link to a story?<span id='postcolor'>

I think the media cut you guys out again... I don't want to go off topic again today, but this is a prime example of homeland war strategies at work. Make the whole operation look like an immediate success and cover up as many losses as makes sense. (This is looking at the war plan from US perspective)

For example, John Walker (you know who), before he was taken in he was stuck in the basement of that prison complex, ran out with a bunch of guys who were fighting coalition forces... threw his grenade, killed one soldier and wounded several others. Actually I belive Walker got hit before his frag exploded.

Wouldn't that tick off the public if they knew his frag injured those soldiers?

At least that's what I'v heard.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (sseagle @ Nov. 13 2002,18:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">When did they shoot down an AWACS? Anyone gotta link to a story?<span id='postcolor'>

I can't find a link but the report is called "Report on Political and Military Objectives of NATO Action with Regard to the Crisis in Kosovo" and was issued by NATO-Russia Permanent Joint Council (PJC) in August 1999.

It is public information, so you can order it from NATO press office. The report is pretty good and seems to be objective at least about number of enemy kills and friendly casulties. You can't trust it however on the estimates of civilian casulties.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (BaronVonRed @ Nov. 13 2002,19:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Here is the proposal reworded for OFP fans:

Saddam: you can let us inspect the buildings, or we can inspect their ashes, whichever you prefer....<span id='postcolor'>

corresponding to the iraqi ambassador the choice has the taken: UN inspections!

[OFPunk 0]

Link I found some stuff here that says alot of crap was shot down but I dont see anything about an AWACS. Are you talking about the E-3 Sentry AWACS? becuase that is basically a modified Boeing 707, I find it hard that they could hide something that big shot down.

[Sam Samson 0]

I'm rubbing my chin, looking up...

If I were an average iraqi joe, what would I do?

publicly protest, of course, but secretly pray that an invasion happens soon.

hey, centcom's tommy franks as tommy pasha would be just fine with me for a while. better than saddam in any case.

I'm sure franks would at least get rid of those distusting door frame sized gallows with dead people hanging on them on many sidewalks in baghdad.

I'd wave my ak as long as saddam looked. and were I separated from his watchful eyes, say by an advance from westerners, I'd surrender to the next best western tv-crew around.

come to think of it... didn't that already happen once?

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (OFPunk @ Nov. 13 2002,23:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Link I found some stuff here that says alot of crap was shot down but I dont see anything about an AWACS. Are you talking about the E-3 Sentry AWACS? becuase that is basically a modified Boeing 707, I find it hard that they could hide something that big shot down.<span id='postcolor'>

It could have been E2's, I don't remember and I don't have the report. It has been over a year and a half since I was current on that. Those are just things that I think that I remember.

About the link: A lot of bs and some truth. NATO acknowledged about 30-40 manned planes lost in the report I was refering to. It was declassified in late 2000 or early 2001. Ayhow the official figures given to the media were a factor 10 smaller, but they changed that later. The reason why it was never discussed in media was that there was no more publicity around Kosovo anymore and nobody was interestsed. These are however public records that can be ordered from the nato press office at any time.

This is nothing unusual, it is how its always done. Nobody gives accurate loss reports during a conflict. Exaggerations are the principle. Post conflict analysis usually gives a better picture.

More interesting then the NATO losses were the Yugoslav losses that were minimal. The only military element that took a real pounding was the SAM sites. The Yugoslav airforce had been evacuated to northern Yugoslavia and were under roof and escaped almost all damage. Out of about 150 tanks that were in Kosovo 4 were destroyed and about 10 damaged.

The biggest problem is Kosovo was not assessing the military damage, but civilian. Different KFOR studies have shown that there was several orders of magnitude larger collateral damage and civilian casulties then what NATO presents in its official figures.

[Supah 0]

The best way to fight the americans is to not fight at all! They cant kill saddam, US laws ban the US secret services from overthrowing foreign regimes and/or killing foreign heads of state. So they capture saddam .... send him to the hague's war crimes tribunal and after that have him extradicted to the US to stand trial for something or everything ... its not like he is gonna be thrown in some prison cell along with joe the crackhead and jimmy the carjacker. He would go to some high security semi holiday resort prison like thing. No more stress of leading a country which doesnt really like you ... no more intrigue. Come to think of it being captured by the USA might be the best thing for saddam's health ...... SADDAM SURRENDER MAN !!!! ITS FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! ;D

[OFPunk 0]

The last place I would want to go anywhere here in the US is a prison of any sort. It would only be good for Suddams health if he were a uh fudgepacker, seriously prisoners get raped by the same sex in our prisons all the time.

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (OFPunk @ Nov. 14 2002,06:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">seriously prisoners get raped by the same sex in our prisons all the time.<span id='postcolor'>

And you know this how?

[Cloney 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Nov. 14 2002,03:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (OFPunk @ Nov. 14 2002,06:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">seriously prisoners get raped by the same sex in our prisons all the time.<span id='postcolor'>

And you know this how?<span id='postcolor'>

Experience... Lots and lots of experience. I remember hearing that "experience is the only way to learn".

[FSPilot 0]

I think it's just a sick joke turned into a rumour.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Nov. 14 2002,04:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think it's just a sick joke turned into a rumour.<span id='postcolor'>

Ah the naivete of the young!

I hope for your sake you never meet the Tossed-Salad Man .

[OFPunk 0]

This is making this go more off topic but I cant help it, go ahead and take a look here., here , and here. Its no rumour, I always thought most people knew this was true, its probably the main reason why I never want to go to prison.

[ralphwiggum 6]

plz. stay on topic.....