TIE Fighter addons

[Macser 776]

I can only speak for myself, but I think it's more realistic to keep either of our projects small. I think that's part of the reason Acacyn didn't make it to releasing all he wanted to. It's just practicality. Limited time and manpower.

 

Nothing wrong with being ambitious. But our imaginations often get the better of our practical ability.

[Lenyoga 326]

2 hours ago, revan9190 said:

Oh man, I'm really anxious to try this out! Would love to make a machinima/trailer with these at some point (attacking/bombing a Rebel base). In addition to Macser's X-wing and A-wings (when he eventually releases them - I wonder if he's going to take the UT-60D U-wing into account from the most recent movie), this is definitely going in my CWA install. The footage is really making me excited! The quality alone is outstanding. The performance really shows you what you can do with CWA. When Macser made the C&C units and buildings for me, it really shows graphically what the engine can handle. And the effects too - such as the Obelisk. With you and him modeling and doing all sorts of amazing Star Wars things, we can probably expect a wide range of Star Wars units at our disposal. With the Hoth addons out, it's been really fun doing the Battle of Hoth, or at least a battle ON Hoth. The way the AT-AT and AT-ST's work is an amazing workaround for the engine and looks amazing to boot! Why I remember flying my T-47 Airspeeder right into the side of an AT-AT and destroyed it, animation of falling down and everything!

 

Not sure if you're eventually going to make the TIE Striker (atmospheric fighter) and TIE Reaper (essentially a TIE line Dropship) from RO? Since I assume you and Macser both are focusing primarily on official 'canon' material, and with the recent movie being 'canon', you guys are working within the confines of that. Of course, there are several other TIE variants from Legends you could probably do, but sticking with the movies only is a bit less overwhelming. You already made a lot of progress with this pack and it looks amazing to boot.

 

OFP/CWA definitely needs more Star Wars addons. It's a shame that Acacyn's GAW units never saw the light of day and are probably lost now. Troop transports would definitely be an essential addition to the game - such as the Lambda-class and Sentinel-class shuttles. But of course you guys want to do it one step at a time and just cross the bridge once you get there. Again, great job!

 

I don't think I'm gonna go for the TIE Striker or Reaper (they don't seem to be that widely used, and most combat roles are already filled with other TIEs, and I'm also lazy), but the Lambda and Sentinel would be essential indeed - I'm gonna take a closer look at those after the TIEs are done for good.

We're probably also gonna need a few planetary bases, space stations and maybe hidden asteroid bases - but those wouldn't be too hard to do if they consist basically only of an exterior, hangar and command bridge.

I had some thoughts on how to construct a static Quasar Fire cruiser, that one would need 23 separate pieces plus a few cannons to work correctly in the engine (64x64x64 meters limitation in object size for geometry and so on) - that wouldn't be too hard if I did it in Blender correctly, cut it up and bake the individual textures. I've also had thoughts about ISDs, but that's low priority right now, since it would be 5 or 8 times the pieces of the cruiser. Plus too many turbolasers.

[Revan9190 132]

Yeah, that makes sense. I know for a fact that the Imperials would need some XX-10 Turbolaser Towers (groundbased versions of the XX-9). But yeah, I get just wanting to focus on the TIEs. I myself try not to overwhelm myself with ideas that I want to do, but that often fails for me, because I end up wanting to get more things done than actually working on getting small things done at a time, which would lead up to a larger release.

 

I don't blame you guys for wanting to keep the releases small. It's best not to get overwhelmed and run out of motivation. :)

 

I think that's why I get frustrated and then take a long break - I don't pace myself enough. Also I'm lazy, admittedly. If I actually took the time to properly learn Blender's functions, I might be able to provide for myself, and save a lot of frustration for all parties involved. So I'm going to do that this week, and probably make a couple of buildings/props and/or weapons, which are likely easier compared to things like tanks, aircraft, and humanoid models.

 

If I get around to making some Star Wars models, I might try and contribute to the project myself. But I suppose I'll focus on my C&C mod for now.

 

Keep up the great work, you two! Limited time and manpower, man I know that feeling.

[Lenyoga 326]

12 hours ago, revan9190 said:

Yeah, that makes sense. I know for a fact that the Imperials would need some XX-10 Turbolaser Towers (groundbased versions of the XX-9). But yeah, I get just wanting to focus on the TIEs. I myself try not to overwhelm myself with ideas that I want to do, but that often fails for me, because I end up wanting to get more things done than actually working on getting small things done at a time, which would lead up to a larger release.

 

I don't blame you guys for wanting to keep the releases small. It's best not to get overwhelmed and run out of motivation. :)

 

I think that's why I get frustrated and then take a long break - I don't pace myself enough. Also I'm lazy, admittedly. If I actually took the time to properly learn Blender's functions, I might be able to provide for myself, and save a lot of frustration for all parties involved. So I'm going to do that this week, and probably make a couple of buildings/props and/or weapons, which are likely easier compared to things like tanks, aircraft, and humanoid models.

 

If I get around to making some Star Wars models, I might try and contribute to the project myself. But I suppose I'll focus on my C&C mod for now.

 

Keep up the great work, you two! Limited time and manpower, man I know that feeling.

When I was at home, I've used the TIEs in demo missions against some old turbolaser towers I've made a few years ago, it wouldn't be too much trouble to redo them. Since they're basically just ... towers with gun barrels.

And yeah, the small stuff approach works better for me, although I can't keep the ideas at bay either. Well, at least I'm not doing everything at once and take a year off like with the Shock mod. That one will still take a few decades I guess...

Blender really is a good idea - creating the pure 3d models is really easy once you get the hang of it, and by using the materials you can just bake textures, ambient occlusion or full renders to how many files you'd need for the final object. It just takes some time and trial and error to get the workflow and all the details down. But the only real downside is forgetting all the O2 controls...

[Lenyoga 326]

Okay, the XX-9 wasn't too hard, now it just needs some textures for all the detail. I should rename this to "various random Imperial Navy assets"...

 

[Lenyoga 326]

So, those things are done and ready for action (maybe some low res LODs for shadows would be good, though...)

 

 

And I've thought about how to combine the need for troop transports and the need for not wanting to do too much work - I think I'll go for the TIE boarding shuttle, as it's just a TIE bomber without the bombing chute.

[Macser 776]

I look forward to blasting the bits out of 'em Len. 

 

I didn't even know the tie shuttle existed until you mentioned it. 

[Lenyoga 326]

2 hours ago, Macser said:

I look forward to blasting the bits out of 'em Len. 

 

I didn't even know the tie shuttle existed until you mentioned it. 

 

I used to think those were simply bombers. There was one scene in Empire Strikes Back where that Captain took one to attend his execution, and I think there were two at the end of Rogue One as well.

[Revan9190 132]

9 hours ago, Lenyoga said:

 

I used to think those were simply bombers. There was one scene in Empire Strikes Back where that Captain took one to attend his execution, and I think there were two at the end of Rogue One as well.

Yeah, Captain Needa took his TIE Shuttle to the Executor. It's basically yeah, a TIE Bomber, but the wings/panels are inverted. I could probably get a better shot of that for you.

 

Here:

 

Take note also how angular these wings are when compared to the TIE/sa.

[Lenyoga 326]

4 hours ago, revan9190 said:

 

Take note also how angular these wings are when compared to the TIE/sa.

 

Oh, strange - I could never make out the inverted wings in the movie. But that VIP shuttles was also just 10 pixels wide... strangely enough, many of the sources I found depicted it as identical to the bomber.

Do you have any leads on the TIE boarding shuttle? If I got that right, those were basically just concept art similar to the bomber, just with differently placed pylons - they made an appearance in Rogue One though and were only seen from behind (and looked identical to the bomber from that angle.) These would make for acceptable transports for at least smaller groups of troopers.

[Macser 776]

Well there is some arguable evidence for the inverted wings. If you look at the sequence when Needa is going to his last meeting, ever, the wings would appear to be inverted. I say arguable, because it's so small in the shot it's not obvious.

 

All these years I never actually noticed for some reason, that it was a bomber variant. It was just a grey blob to me. 

 

Here's the example being presented for the inverted wings. I suppose it does fit, combined with the storyboards. Although some concept work does have it with the usual setup.

 

I'd say it's open to interpretation. But that's just me. 

[Lenyoga 326]

1 hour ago, Macser said:

Well there is some arguable evidence for the inverted wings. If you look at the sequence when Needa is going to his last meeting, ever, the wings would appear to be inverted. I say arguable, because it's so small in the shot it's not obvious.

 

All these years I never actually noticed for some reason, that it was a bomber variant. It was just a grey blob to me. 

 

Here's the example being presented for the inverted wings. I suppose it does fit, combined with the storyboards. Although some concept work does have it with the usual setup.

 

I'd say it's open to interpretation. But that's just me. 

 

I've also done some digging, that concept art piece with the inverted wings is good enough for me I guess. Those TIEs keep multiplying, next on the list - TIE VIP shuttle, TIE boarding shuttle. I'm just glad I don't have to adapt any more cockpits. The passenger compartment should be easy enough. I shouldn't say this. Every time I say this something goes wrong.

[Revan9190 132]

As a modder of Battlefront 2, my partner in crime has modeled tons of TIE Variants, including the above variant and also another variant that was only seen in one of the old comics. If you would like some reference photos, I'll provide some from SWBFMSHviewer. The latter variant in question was a TIE Bomber but it had a huge compartment for Stormtroopers on the ventral side of the craft. I've always wondered, however, how exactly pilots got into the TIE Bomber. I'll have to reference a cross section. But if you'd like to keep to what you saw in Rogue One, that's perfectly understandable.

 

Edit: upon closer inspection, I never realized that the TIEs in Rogue One were actually boarding craft. But then again, it wouldn't make sense to bomb the ship again after it was disabled, with your own forces on board. Haha. Yeah, I'd go with this variant. Of course add a few tiny modifications to the bottom so we can differentiate? That's your prerogative.

Edited July 21, 2017 by revan9190
Realization

[Lenyoga 326]

12 hours ago, revan9190 said:

As a modder of Battlefront 2, my partner in crime has modeled tons of TIE Variants, including the above variant and also another variant that was only seen in one of the old comics. If you would like some reference photos, I'll provide some from SWBFMSHviewer. The latter variant in question was a TIE Bomber but it had a huge compartment for Stormtroopers on the ventral side of the craft. I've always wondered, however, how exactly pilots got into the TIE Bomber. I'll have to reference a cross section. But if you'd like to keep to what you saw in Rogue One, that's perfectly understandable.

 

Edit: upon closer inspection, I never realized that the TIEs in Rogue One were actually boarding craft. But then again, it wouldn't make sense to bomb the ship again after it was disabled, with your own forces on board. Haha. Yeah, I'd go with this variant. Of course add a few tiny modifications to the bottom so we can differentiate? That's your prerogative.

 

The bomber has a top hatch too, but it's shaped differently from the rest of the TIEs (I used that cross section as a reference: https://i.warosu.org/data/tg/img/0332/40/1404778888065.jpg)

I almost wanted to ask, "What's the Imperial campaign in the new Battlefront 2 like", but then I realized my mistake...

I think for the boarding shuttle I'll simply remove the bombing chute and replace the front section of the ordinance pod, if I go for the VIP shuttle too, it'll get the inverse wings.

[Lenyoga 326]

The TIE boarding shuttle exterior is as done as I'll do it I guess. I cut a few corners, but the result looks alright to me. It's pretty much identical to the bomber, but the passenger pod has a few elements changed, most notably the added access hatch on the bottom (I will probably add an animation for cutscene purposes). Its capacity is about 12 pieces of man and it can be entered/exited from below. I'll try to come up with some interior that makes sense soon.

 

 

The VIP shuttle is about the same, except for the wings. The cargo capacity has been limited to 4 persons and the laser cannons have been removed. I added some more more armor, so anyone forcing "escort the shuttle" missions onto the players isn't a complete monster.

[Revan9190 132]

Looking good. Can't wait to drop troops & high ranking officers off in those. :D

[Lenyoga 326]

1 hour ago, revan9190 said:

Looking good. Can't wait to drop troops & high ranking officers off in those. :D

Troops for combat, officers for, well, assuming full responsibility. I got a little repulsorlift land and takeoff feature done a few days ago, so you don't have to crash land those things. That's also fairly useful for a quick exit. I'll see if I can get a mission friendly script handling this for the AI too.

[Revan9190 132]

11 hours ago, Lenyoga said:

Troops for combat, officers for, well, assuming full responsibility. I got a little repulsorlift land and takeoff feature done a few days ago, so you don't have to crash land those things. That's also fairly useful for a quick exit. I'll see if I can get a mission friendly script handling this for the AI too.

I would love that. Otherwise you have pilots crashing into trees...or each other, thinking they're going to take down a capital ship by ramming into the bridge.

[Lenyoga 326]

3 hours ago, revan9190 said:

I would love that. Otherwise you have pilots crashing into trees...or each other, thinking they're going to take down a capital ship by ramming into the bridge.

When flying with a TIE flight group, your friends and enemies are you worst enemies. The AI really is not afraid of mid air collisions.

 

I'm at a point where official information is conflicting, too - some newer sources say standard TIE Fighters do have repulsorlift technology for VTOL, some say they don't, so they don't get any ideas of taking off and landing somewhere they're not supposed to. I added the feature for all of them and it just seems to make more sense for planetary operations.

The other thing are ejection seats - some sources say only TIE Bombers have those, newer sources say all TIEs do. I guess I'll let them all have their parachutes since you can't prevent AI from bailing if the ship takes too much damage. The option to add different effects in a pseudo-space combat is still there anyway.

[Macser 776]

I think you'll be fine sticking to your own interpretation. It's nice being accurate. But the engine and the game style are going to get in the way at some point. At least with some kind of take off sequence, they can get going without having to have a clean flat runway.

 

Same with chutes and ejection I suppose. Unless someone comes up with a bright idea in the meantime.

 

And yeah. The AI do love playing chicken. 

[Revan9190 132]

In all my extensive knowledge of Star Wars technology from research over the years and watching the movies and shows, it never made sense for any of the craft to not have VTOL. While in many cases we can see fighters just launching like missiles out of hangars, having VTOL capability in universe is, in my eyes, an absolute must.

 

As far as ejector seats go (as they are called in universe), many craft did possess that feature. But like you said, some newer sources said that all TIE/ln starfighters did indeed have them, but some say certain models. I even read that the A-wing had such features. However, like Macser said, the game engine is bound to get in the way here. I'm not sure as to the solution to this problem, because I'm not sure if you can remodel the base game chutes to be more sci-fi-esque. And even then, I'm not sure how to make it so such things only apply to these addons. Again, my knowledge of the engine is very limited, so I don't know. I've always thought the TIE series could detach the cockpit as a sort of escape pod or something. Like the wings could be propelled from the craft and the cockpit could deploy a chute. Not sure if that sounds weird or not, but the engine can only handle so much.

[Lenyoga 326]

With a bit of dirty work, ejector seats are possible. I've thought about implementing those specifically for TIE bombers. All you have to do is add a GetOut eventhandler, check if the unit that got out is in a vehicle or on its own, if it's in one, you can delete it and substitute it with a custom one. I'm not yet sure if custom parachutes are a possibility, but I'll probably try when all of the necessary work is done.

I've had a little cleanup day today, so some of the unnecessary scripts are gone now, other have been simplified. My idea was to keep it to a minimum, now everything's already running 5 eventhandlers.

[Macser 776]

Quote

My idea was to keep it to a minimum, now everything's already running 5 eventhandlers

 

Same here. 

 

We're fighting uphill. So  there's plenty of "imperfections" to be sure. But it's hard to get around certain things.

[Lenyoga 326]

Raw sketch of the passenger pod, with some pilots for scale:

 

 

It really isn't the most comfortable transport ever, but the TIE shuttle version will at least get some chairs.

[Revan9190 132]

The actual troopers wouldn't get comfortable seating anyways. The shuttle variant would obviously have them because officers are high maintenance snobs. :p