Whats just not there.

[Azz -GUN- 0]

I have been on a lot of servers recently and one thing i have noticed is the lack of actuall teamwork. im not going to name names but i am wondering where has the leadership gone ?

In co-ops there is a certain degree of leadership and tactics but still not much. and yet we have everything we need to do it with.

So whats the Brefing Screen for ?

Giving you a idea of your mission and if it is a good brefing a insight in to what your up-against then you may disucss with your teammates certain tactics and plan your assult.

now yes most mp games are fast paced and lot of action but doing a reconasence if posssible is good splitting your team up in to groups and looking at your objective without engaging so you can plan your attack.

for an EG you can Fire Mortars or Grenades from a far back position without enemy contact by having a spotter or something looking at your objective and guiding your shots.

I have done this with my teammates on occasion and that tactic proves effective if there are for a example 3 MG nest's with a crossfire if you go in gun's a blazing on foot chances are your going to get mowed down, but not if you fire a mort over the hill at them or from behind a wall.

The Spotter sits in his bush with a set of binos guiding your shots and if you practise you can ussal hit your target within 2 shots a tester then the proper one.

So the spotter gets hardly any kills ? big deal it's all about teamwork and tactics.

And on most occasions the people who just rush ahead and pretend there on there own like Rambo end up dying or getting there teammates killed if one guy rushes in ahead and alerts the enemy by the time the rest get here they are all ready for you i think this Rambo style co-op play make the game less fun.

as for CTF I or C&H have seen hardly any tactics here at all everyone just goes off and does there own thing. I do it too but thats mainly because I havent been given any orders for the past 5 minutes and am getting bored.

Treat CTF as a CO-OP i say...and teamwork and tactics will always win out in the end.

if anyone knows of a server where this actually happens please tell me because id love to play there.

I may be just rambling on but oh well I want to see what others think maby evan if a few agree with me we should meet up on a server and play.

[nyles 11]

I'm resonsible for tactics in the gaming clan I'm in, that's why I stress this matter all the time, even during some skirmishes on public servers. Even though I am in contact via VON with my clan-mates, I always take the time to introduce some tactics to the other members of my team via text. The problem however is, that there is always at least one individuual who does not want to listen and goes his/her own way. This has more than often crippled the whole "strategy" decided on for the respective mission. However, I still continue to do so, because there are many many players out there who listen to well thought tactics and help in making them happen in-game. Tactics are the first half of winning a mission, actual gaming skills the second.

[Lt_Damage 0]

After a while good leadership and tactics will become more and more appealing to players because at they end of the mission, they are still alive.

I have lead a group of guys through several missions, e.g 12_C_Intervention and at first everyone went nuts, and promptly died, however my team survived, and after we replayed more and more wanted to join my team, so they could make it through the mission.

What this game needs is leaders. If you see a better way to do something, step up, start giving orders, they may not respond at first but you might get through to them in the end.

[Azz -GUN- 0]

How about we start a thread of tactics.

like say it's a C&H Mission instead of setting up base at the flag setup a front line between the enemy and the flag. with MG Crossfires Maby Mines inplaces AT Guys a Spotter up ahead to tell them whats comming so they can be prepared.

Using the map is a great asset looking at the map and seeing where is a good place to setup your front line and such.

I think it might be a good idea to throw some tactics up and the air and see what happens.

[Azz -GUN- 0]

Heres an example:

Objective here is to hold all 3 Towns from the enemy.

Now heres the common problem you have say 10 on 10 game right.

if your the west (green).

You may just have 2 Gaurding Objective 3.

5 garuding Objective 1

and 3 Gauriding Objective 2

ruskies come along and take objective 3 from you then west respawns

One guy might go off to objective 1 while the other is trying to retake objective 3.

so now there is 6 Gaurding obj1 and only 1 trying to retake 3 and 3 on obj2.

which is complete madness.

now if i was doing it and people follower orders i would as soon as possible take obj1 with my whole squad then take obj 3 then Obj2 and advance slightly north of Frymburk then i have a lot less ground to actually hold as i only have to stop the Ruskies moving South past Frymburk. get a guy with some binos in the woods to watch what the ruskies are doing get some AT guys back and on high ground with ammo next to them because in resistance this is now easy since you can drop stuff so move a few RPG's in the bushes next to the AT peeps then have spotters watching your flanks and MG's against infantary. you have a much higher chance of keeping the objectives.

and when they send there guys in one by one they dont have a chance.

anyway you get the drift.

[LT.Schaffer 0]

Hi all,

I totally Agree with you Azz!

i think teamwork is very much needed to complete any game type,but my favorite is Co-op so i have found maybe 2 people online who play with teamwork,and when i join they're server it's awesome until some "Rambo" like person joins and wants to play Deathmatch that the server becomes lame to play on,and it ruins the gaming experience!So teamwork is awesome!what server do you play on? i might have to join and play a few coop games with you! Cool!

Hope to be able to play with you some time!

By the way my online name is Sgt.Snake Eyes

[Azz -GUN- 0]

I play different servers.

007's co op server.

Battlefeilds.

Stoners House of Pancakes.

I used to always be on gamesdomain(3).co.uk

untill it vanished was best server on the net for us UK peeps.

My Team The[GUN]fighters are hoping to get a server of our own sometime soon and im not just saying this cause im in the team but they really all are a great bunch of guys!

When I play with them i just know it's gonna be a good game.

But yes on the odd occasion you do find a few peeps who play well

[LT.Schaffer 0]

Any Chance i could join your squad?

i will try and join as often as possible to those servers also

i hope i get a chance to play with your squad as team mates!

[Azz -GUN- 0]

Sorry mate :c)

Membership is Invite Only.

But you can easily drop in past our forums and say hi.

when we play as a team it's quite often in a private IP game but we can be seen on servers too.

Oh the website.

www.the-GUNfighters.com

[Azz -GUN- 0]

All this talking has got me in the mood for a nice co-op.

I must go comandeer a server for myself

007vet's co-op server 1 Ah it looks nice.

Time to frag a ruskie or two.

[AngusHeaf 0]

It's exceedingly rare to find a public server where people plan. It's even rarer still to find a server where people can manage to have the patience and skill to execute a plan that they come up with before the game. I'm speaking of multiplayer 2 team games by the way, not Coop. I'm sure the case is the same with Coop, but I don't play Coop except with my squad to warm up before tournaments. Anyways... I've found one server where the patrons are skilled and motivated to work together. The place is frequently filled to the max and 75% of the people who log on are regulars. Place is called MTCO. Good server, look for it on the server list some time and if you can manage to get in, say hello.

The biggest problem with public play is that there's always too many cheifs and not enough indians. No one wants to be told to guard some patch of land and not move, even if the action is elsewhere. I'm afraid the only true way to experience good human vs. human play is by joining a well organized squad that participates in the larger tournaments and ladders. I was SHOCKED at the amount of skill present in these tournament teams. They put even the best skilled public players to shame. Squads like USMC, 1/8th, MOD, SHoP, are all teams that will amaze you with their overall team skill.The games are all a person could dream about in terms of teamwork. To illustrate the level of commitment these teams have for the game, I'll use my own squad as an example.

My squad takes planning for games very seriously (and does so in private) and starts usually a week before a match. We prepare formal OPORDS (OPerational ORDers) and put out detailed maps, illustrations, assignments, and so on. We usually run a couple of formal practices to recce and rehearse for the match. Actually, quite a bit of time goes into that stuff, and you just can't do it for public play. No one would care and just go off playing Rambo. When I've put together materials for our plans they have often taken me a few hours to do, and that's on top of the couple hour long practices.

Here's an example of what sort of graphic materials we might release with our plan before a match. I did these about 3 months ago for various tournaments....

Disclaimer: These plans have been editted in order to be declassified. The first image is not the plan we used tonight to defeat DK in the WarGames ladder. Crafty little spies! ;-)

http://www.mphasemedia.com/extranet/flashpoint/wg_july_fullplan.jpg

http://www.mphasemedia.com/extrane....ial.jpg

Overall if you want to experience the thrill of playing OFP the way many of us want to play it; filled with teamwork and strategy and military gusto, then you need to join a competitive squad. And you may not even find the good sort of teamwork in any ol' squad. It usually helps if the people aren't ego-maniacs all looking to be General Patton, or some cowboy out to punch a few nazis in the face. Join a squad and play with them often, and over the course of months you will start to mesh. And the final note... Friendly-play squads are all fine and good but nothing works out the kinks and flaws in a plan like playing against an opponent when something is on the line in a tournament.

[ralphwiggum 6]

I have to agree with the statement that it is hard to find teamwork on public servers. one time, I was playing 'Bridge to Freedom(coop from Killikilli)' and some Rambo messed it all up. on another instance, when few of survivors like me got to bridge, there were some guards, and suddenly every one started going their way. and result was that noone crossed the bridge.

it is really hard to set chain of command in public servers. so it is not surprising that there is some problem with incoherent players/tactics. basically, you are on your own, and make best decision for yourself on public servers. so it is highly recommended that someone who is looking for a good teamwork should look for a clan that matches their style.

[iNeo 0]

On public servers, why not bring a friend or two and you can be 2-3 guys with good teamwork, perhaps using RW or TS... But yup best way to get some teamwork is to join/create a squad.

[JRMZ 0]

Yes I agree.

Participating in a team and playing maps with def / attack strategies, teamwork, good tactics is the best gaming experience you will ever have.

Not only with OFP, but with all MP games.

I have to admit that OFP is the best game ever in tactical/strategic warsimulation

[Azz -GUN- 0]

Dammned, thats planning !

hehe.

in a team thats the thought and effort like that should be put in.

But more genearraly on the server outwith team and ladder matches the problem exists.

The people who dont give orders are just as bad as the people who dont follow in my book.

[RED 0]

I couldn't agree more that tactics need to be used more in games, to many games have been ruined because people just get in their big tank and get blown up.

Another problem is communication between teams it is bad as it is but if you log on to a foreign server you don't usually have a clue what they are saying.

When I play I like to find a server when I know people will play the game with tactics. I like the idea of the tactics suggestions Azz.

RED

[JRMZ 0]

right

[The_Captain 0]

Surprisingly, my mutliplayer OFP map/mod actually forces teamwork.

It's weird.

but it happens.

It's not because I beat it into people's heads in the briefing, or anything like that... But after a few games, teams start to work together and cooperate, because their immediate success and teamwork decides the next round. If someone f*cks up, the team is at a later disadvantage.

The mod plays similar to counter strike, with multiple rounds in a game, where players rack up kills and win objectives during the rounds, and in between they are forced to review a map screen and then buy equipment while they shuttle to battle in a chopper. The only objective as of yet is to protectyour leader adn kill the enemy leader, and that's where things get interesting, because the positions of both leaders are marked on the map in real time.

What happens, is if a team splits up and goes off, and their leader dies, they don't get much cash, and the enemy team starts racking it up... Eventually, if you don't plan a litle bit and communicate, you're going to lose. However, if you start planning during a mission, it's very possible to some back and win.

The games I conducted were not with clan members, just random OFP players at about 2 am.

I brought this up only because I too have noticed the severe lack of teamwork in normal MP games. I'd like to atribute this to the fact that mission success has no bearing on later performance, and that the network of options is unlimited to every player -> They don't have to rely on each other, because they have ultimate freedom. Good game design relies on complexity in the network of options. In normal OFP MP maps, you have all the options available at the start, so you don't have to work to unlock anything. The resources are just about unlimited, so there's no real conservation, ebcause all crates have a billion guns, and the vehicles all respawn "to keep the gameplay fast paced". I'm not bashing CTH and CnH, I like to play them every now and then, though I did eventually get burned out playing *all* the time on SHoP.

Anoether interesting part is that the map only supports up to 12 pople, 6 on a side. There are also 5 different classes, but you can only afford special class equipment if you do well, win objectives, and make kills.

Players only get one life per round, but that's no huge penalty, because they have a spectator mode to view their teammates, and they can play again within 5 minutes during the next round.

Weapons on bodies of course carry over, so you don't nesscessarily have to go buy new ones... you just have to hope no one did a "hide body" on your body or already took your guns...

The classes all compliment each other, so on most maps it's good to have an officer, commando, sniper, demo, heavy and recon.... but you don't *have* to. You could easily have six snipers, and maybe a team might like to practice full sniper tactics, but a well balanced team usually wins.

It's nesscessary to often rely on teammates in maps. IE, if there's a sniper on a roof, call in demo boy to blow up the building with a satchel. If the enemy leader is hiding in a building, send a few commandos with XM/shotgun combos to sweep the rooms and snipers to cover the windows and exits. If you want to know enemy locations within about 100 meters, get a recon guy to turn on his gps locator. If you want to hold an area, get a heavy weapons guy to set up a machine gun nest. There's a lot of strategies buried in here.

I've even seen people do flanking

A lot of the tactics arise from the fact that both sides can pinpoint the leaders, and that yours *needs* to be protected. It doesn't matter if your leader's a dumbass, he still needs to survive long enough for the enemy leader to be taken out. Therefore, some players have to play guard duty if they want cool equipment in the next round, and other players have to be very good hunter killers.

All maps are also dynamically generated, meaning that the insertion points of the leaders/teams change every round. In future objectives, the objective points will also be generated.

Current objective:

1) Assassination - Each team has a designated leader, whom they must protect for the duration of the round. They win by eliminating the enemy leader. Winning team gets 1 point and $750

I'm going to add new objectives in the future, including:

2) VIP Escort - Counter Terrorists have an invincible AI VIP, and they have to escort him across the map to a point both sides know. Terrorists have to steal him away, and escort him across the map as well. Eliminating the other team does not guarantee victory, you still have to get the vip and escort him, but you do get a $$ bonus for wiping out the enemy team. Winning team gets 1 point & $750 for winning.

3) Assault/Defend - One side is presented with a set of randomly generated points to defend, and the opposing team has to rush these points and recapture them. Capturing all the points results in immediate victory, but a team can also win by holding the majority of the points by the end of the 5 minute time limit. Each team gets 1 point and $500 for the number of points they control by round's end.

4) Bomb placement/defusal - Terrorist leader has a bomb, and a few randomly generated choices of where to place it. Counter terrorists must either take down the leader and confiscate the bomb, or wait till the bomb is placed and disarm it. After the bomb is placed, the CT's have X number of seconds to defuse it. Winning side gets 1 point and $750

5) Hostage rescue - Each terrorist starts with a hostage who follows them around. The counter terrorists must rescue as many hostages as possible by killing their terrorist captors and evacuating them to the recue point to win. Each side gets one point and $200 for each hostage they control at round's end.

Each objective can be selected at the player assignment screen in the param box, and that objective will last for all 6 rounds. A random option can also be selected.

I haven't put the new ones in yet, because I need to balance the current set of weaponry and pricing before I add any new variables.

There are also up to 10 maps from which one can be selected at the player assignment screen. This put the mission at one of these 10 points around the island of nogova. Server admins can also select random (default option) for some spice. Each round, weather and time are cycled. (Don't forget the NV goggles!

The map is limited to 12 players both for gameplay and technical reasons. Most servers are too slow to support the amount of data that needs to fly back and forth, and if you have too many people on a team, they don't need to rely on each other very much, and death rates skyrocket.

Fun map, and a no addon beta is coming soon. (Gotta get the dedicated up and running)

My map/mod is great for team play and matches, so I'm hoping in the future it could be a clan map or tourny map.

[Azz -GUN- 0]

Map Sounds interesting. would like to try it sometime.

I have been trying to make a MP Map for Months now ever since i got the game. It's nothing to do with lack of editing skills because if i once know what i want i have no problem doing it. it's just making the mission realistic and fun.

im not good at.

I think hmm i could put a MG nest here but then why...what good will it do ? i could make them take this town here but why whats the point ? it has not much strategic value.

I dunno i am just not good at it:)

[JRMZ 0]

sounds very interesting.

maybe its a good tournament map for EFL?

Do you have a link to the map so I can view it?

[The_Captain 0]

The public beta will be released in a few days. I haven't worked on the beta because I have been too busy working on the retail version. (Yes, it's a retail expansion)

I'll even have a 40mbit server dedicated just for the beta version as well, which won't require any addons.

PM me if you'd like a preview version.

Retail's got new units, 4 shotgun based weapons, and will also have a new island, as well as a coop mode.

[Azz -GUN- 0]

Sounds like you have put a lot of work in to this and if it forces teamplay i might evan buy it.

fund are a bit low at the moment, my dammned car is playing up.