Heavy water

[cybrid 0]

My question is "what is heavy water and what is its role in nuclear weapons?"

All I know about it is that its denser than regular water, very expensive and takes along time to make. Also the british (Or Americans?) destroyed some nazi heavy water druing the war.

[Warin 0]

Here you go!

Heavy Water (D2O) is a compound of an isotope of hydrogen called heavy hydrogen or Deuterium (D) and oxygen. Deuterium has an atomic mass of 2, as against 1 for normal hydrogen (H) due to presence of an extra neutron in the nucleus. Deuterium is present in hydrogen and hydrogen bearing compounds like water, hydrocarbons, etc. and has a small natural occurrence (D/D+H) of about 140 to 150 ppm. So it is necessary to process large quantities of the low concentration feed stock to produce the final product which is enriched to the reactor grade i.e. 99.8 mole %. Heavy Water has great similarity in its physical and chemical properties to ordinary water. But its nuclear properties display a significant variation which makes it an extremely efficient material for use as moderator in a nuclear reactor.

edit:

I think heavy water has very little to do with actual nuclear weapons. What is more likely is that it is required in the reactors that can be used as breeders to produce plutonium for weapons.

[cybrid 0]

Damm, I though I was through with chemistry, its a blast from the past for me.

But thats used for reactors right? as a coolent is it? (sorry i'm too tired to read throughly).

What does it do in the weapons?

[Mister Frag 0]

The heavy water is used both for cooling and to control the nuclear chain reaction. It isn't really water, it is deuterium oxide.

There is a funny anecdote about heavy water floating around on the Internet, I'm not sure if it is true:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Nuclear physicist Niels Bohr was rescued in the nick of time from German occupied Denmark. While Danish resistance fighters provided covering fire he ran out the back door of his home stopping momentarily to grab a beer bottle full of precious “heavy waterâ€. He finally reached England still clutching the bottle, which contained beer. Perhaps some German drank the heavy water…

<span id='postcolor'>

(From http://www.5ad.org/AmazingFacts.htm)

[edc 0]

Why do you want to know? Trying desperately in your basement to build one??

[FallenPaladin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ Nov. 01 2002,04:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Heavy Water has great similarity in its physical and chemical properties to ordinary water.<span id='postcolor'>

Does it freeze by 0°C ?

If I would see heavy water, I couldn`t tell any difference to normal water, right? But what if I would drink a bottle of it?

[Mister Frag 0]

Nope, the Melting Point is 3.8C, and the Boiling Point is 101.4C.

You can drink it, it isn't poisonous. Just a bit 'different' at an atomic level.

[Guest]

If I remember correctly heavy water is also used as a moderator in reactors (slows down the fission by absorbing neutrons).

Edit: Ok, so I didn't read Warin's post properly I see now that he has already mentioned that.

[advocatexxx 0]

Deuterium along with Tritium (radioactive isotope of water) is also used at the experimental nuclear fusion plants, where these two compounds are pressurized and heated to conditions surpassing those at the core of the sun.  When man manages to develop and sustain a stable nuclear fusion reaction, it will very much solve all the energy problems of this planet.  I think they managed to stabilize the reaction for about 4 seconds ? Here in New Jersey at the Princeton plasma physics lab.  Problem was the reaction consumed more energy than it generated (the plasma has to be "levitated" in a magnetic field, so the energy needed to generate such a strong magnetic field has managed to surpass the energy generated by the reaction)

Deuterium is also used as fuel on the starship Enterprise.  It is dispersed into a myst and blasted in a stream at the dilithium crystal at which point another stream of anti-deuterium meets it, resulting in a annihilation which generates energy driven through the warp coils in the nacells that generate the proper warp field that drives the ship at super-luminous velocities.

That last paragraph by the way was fictitious, for those who aren't exactly the "brightest pennies in the fountain"

[JAP 2]

I once saw a documentary about a us/british ( can t remember, could ve been other nationality too ) squad that had to attack a heavy water facility of the germans during WW2. Don t know where it was, think switserland or something like that.

It was very interesting.

If anybody remembers anything about that mission plz post, could be a good mission to make with Kegetys' winter Nogojev + WW2 pack.

Cheers

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (JAP @ Nov. 04 2002,13:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If anybody remembers anything about that mission plz post, could be a good mission to make with Kegetys' winter Nogojev + WW2 pack.<span id='postcolor'>

The Dam Busters. They attacked with with Lancaster bombers and specially made round bombs that rolled across the upper dam wall or something like that.

[JAP 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Nov. 04 2002,13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (JAP @ Nov. 04 2002,13:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If anybody remembers anything about that mission plz post, could be a good mission to make with Kegetys' winter Nogojev + WW2 pack.<span id='postcolor'>

The Dam Busters. They attacked with with Lancaster bombers and specially made round bombs that rolled across the upper dam wall or something like that.<span id='postcolor'>

Ty for that response Avon.

But it wasn t that one.  Was a 8 (?) men squad ( specops i think ) and they skied to the facility.

What i can remember is that the facility was on a mountain with pipes running down ( to get the right pressure on the water i think )  Also something with a lake and a boat ( civil ).

Damn, so long ago, my memory is letting me down here ...  <!--emo&

/edit

Aha, found it

http://www.lawzone.com/half-nor/haukelid.htm

And it were resistance fighters from Norway.

Is a cool story for a mission

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ Nov. 01 2002,08:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Nope, the Melting Point is 3.8C, and the Boiling Point is 101.4C.

You can drink it, it isn't poisonous. Just a bit 'different' at an atomic level.<span id='postcolor'>

But I may assume that it is de-salted so if you drink it you might actually die!

[WhoCares 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Nov. 04 2002,13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (JAP @ Nov. 04 2002,13:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If anybody remembers anything about that mission plz post, could be a good mission to make with Kegetys' winter Nogojev + WW2 pack.<span id='postcolor'>

The Dam Busters. They attacked with with Lancaster bombers and specially made round bombs that rolled across the upper dam wall or something like that.<span id='postcolor'>

These are two different missions.

The 'Dam Busters' blew up a Dam near the Ruhrgebiet, assuming that it would have drastical influence in the productivity of Germanys biggers industrial center. They used a special bomb that jumped on the water surface of the lake, because Torpedos would have failed because of nets in the water. Wonder wether Keg' can model such bombs  <!--emo&

About the Heavy Water facility I only remember a movie ('Dirty Dozend'-like; no documetary). IIRC, the facility was located in Norway. Yepp, just made a Google Search and found a National Geographic reference. The facilities name is 'Norsk Hydro'.

German NG reference

English Reference

Another reference, with a reference to the movie, 'The heroes of Telemark', starring Kirk Douglas. Has also images of the facility, so mapmakers and modelers, what are you waiting for?

[Stag 0]

It's the Telemark raid that destroyed the heavy water plant. The country was Norway, and the raid was conducted by Norwegian Resistance supported by Britain.

[JAP 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WhoCares @ Nov. 04 2002,13:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">with a reference to the movie, 'The heroes of Telemark', starring Kirk Douglas. Has also images of the facility, so mapmakers and modelers, what are you waiting for? <span id='postcolor'>

I m ready to start.

Just waiting on .... uhm .....

WW2 winter soldiers + skis + Equipment

Civil boat

Heavy water facility ( or at least some pipes )

I could do a modern version though using Nogojev from Kegetys and the (damn what s it called ? ) ... snowscooter.

[vade_101 0]

Its an absolutely extraordinary story. The mission was an SOE one. "Operation GUNNERSIDE". it was the second attempt by the SOE to destroy the Norsk Hydro plant at Vemork. The first attempt "Operation FRESHMAN" where 2 Horsa Gliders containing 41 Royal Engineers from 261 Airborne Squadron RE  and 9 Airborne Squadron RE was a failure. The gliders both crashed, killing many of the soldiers the remainder were tortured and killed by the Gestapo.

It was decided that for smaller, better trained group would have more chance of sucess and 5 Norwegian commandos were selected for the task (along with the 4 man intellegence group from FRESHMAN who were still in place). Because security at the plant had doubled following the earlier raid the GUNNERSIDE team were dropped 40 miles away and had to ski for a week, carring all the weapons and explosives just to reach the plant. They then climbed down a 500ft cliff, entered the high concentration room via a cable shaft (keeping a Norwegian night-watchman at gunpoint until the charges were layed, when he was released) leaving behind a Tommy Gun to show it was British forces that had sabotaged the plant. The charges destroyed only the heavy water tanks, and were not heard over the factory noise and the sabotage was undetected until the following morning, no shots were fired and there were no casualties to the operation. The team then escaped down a railway line and back into the mountains. 5 Members of the team then spent 18 days Skiiing the 500km to sweden.

By April 1943 the production of heavy water started again. Attacks continued on the Norsk Hydro, and America despatched 150 B-17s bombers to destroy the plant, but the mission failed, although Vemork was put out of action for the rest of the war, the high concentration plant had survived.

Berlin, frustrated with the constant sabotage, decided to move the stock-pile of heavy water out by rail ferry.

London instructed SOE to do everything possible to destroy its valuable cargo. Only one SOE commando remained at Vemork, Lieutenant Knut Haukelid,

In February 1944, Haukelid and two others stowed away on board the Hydro ferry and they set to work laying a ring of eight Kilos of plastic explosives, set to blow a hole out of the boats keel.

At 10.45am on Sunday, February 20, 1944, just as she was crossing the deepest part of Lake Tinnsjo, the Hydro ferry exploded, destroying the last of the German’s heavy water supply.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WhoCares @ Nov. 04 2002,14:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Nov. 04 2002,13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (JAP @ Nov. 04 2002,13:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If anybody remembers anything about that mission plz post, could be a good mission to make with Kegetys' winter Nogojev + WW2 pack.<span id='postcolor'>

The Dam Busters. They attacked with with Lancaster bombers and specially made round bombs that rolled across the upper dam wall or something like that.<span id='postcolor'>

These are two different missions.<span id='postcolor'>

Parity check error.

[JAP 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Nov. 04 2002,14:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WhoCares @ Nov. 04 2002,14:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Nov. 04 2002,13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (JAP @ Nov. 04 2002,13:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If anybody remembers anything about that mission plz post, could be a good mission to make with Kegetys' winter Nogojev + WW2 pack.<span id='postcolor'>

The Dam Busters. They attacked with with Lancaster bombers and specially made round bombs that rolled across the upper dam wall or something like that.<span id='postcolor'>

These are two different missions.<span id='postcolor'>

Parity check error. <span id='postcolor'>

You need some ECC memory