New to modelling - need some advice on my model

[[evo] dan 79]

Hi all,

 

I'm newish to (computer at least) modelling. So I've decided to make some simple models to start with and so i'm doing some static objects. I've been making it in Blender and have been exporting it into Arma thanks to the toolbox.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9loahls0ake8nt5/Oil%20Container%20Pic%201.png?dl=0

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hcd1oya20qxj8b6/Oil%20Container%20Pic%202.png?dl=0

 

I've got a couple of questions about this as I move the model forwards:

 

1) With a model like this, would I need to bother with any other (visual) LOD's besides a destroyed LOD?

 

2) Related to no.1 would the number of poly's on this model be visually acceptable up close or would a more detailed model be better?

 

3) Does anybody have an good resources on doing texturing? I'm not particular good at colouring in real life on models but just about manage to get by. I've got paint.net and gimp 2 but i'm never happy with the results.

 

Thanks in advance

[Jackal326 1181]

1) You'd want at least 4 or 5 "visual/resolution" lods, each halving the poly-count of the one before it (1000, 500, 250,125, ~60 etc as an example)

2) Seems fine but it depends on how much detail (if any) you plan on adding via normal maps.

3) I can't help you on that front I'm afraid, but Adobe have quite a few tutorials knocking around (though they obviously relate more to Photoshop but many principles would translate to other applications).

[[evo] dan 79]

Thanks for getting back to me about this, i'll try and make some more lower poly LOD's to put into the model. Just need to figure out how to do decent textures now.

 

I've been talking to my clanmate and have managed to get this render out of blender, seems a lot better but he recommended that I sohlud probably do a model that is higher poly then the current one.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/noq6c3jwgd613yp/oil%20container%20bump%20map%20render.png?dl=0

[Macser 776]

You picked a good object to start on.

 

Regardless of hardware, it's a good practice to only use as much geometry as you need. If the model looks like what it's meant to be, then your job is done. Shovelling more polys into that particular model, isn't really going to do much to change the appearance.

 

If you start with a subsurf modifier you'll get a more refined mesh for baking. It's especially good for hard surface work. For something like that, a low level would be good. You can duplicate it when your happy and turn off the subsurf to use the base as a target for baking. It might need some tidying up before-hand though. Once you get rid of the triangle end caps, the subsurf modifier should work well with it.

 

Adding something else might help generate some interest though. What visual effects artists would call "greeblies". They don't necessarily do much. But they look cool. Piping that runs out of the drum that could be positioned next to a building. Or runs down into the ground. Some valves or pressure gauges. Some labeling. That kind of thing. Nothing excessive.

 

One other important thing. Invest some time in UV unwrapping. Reduce your seam count and try to hide them as much as you can. Sometimes normal maps can refuse to behave at seams. So putting them out of view is the simplest way to get around it.

 

If you want to improve lighting across cylinder caps, try using grid fill after extruding in from the edges. It usually responds better than triangle fans. :)

 

I quickly outlined grid filling here:

https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/180240-wip-halo-covenant/page-12#entry2875671

[[evo] dan 79]

Never mind, seems you cant call containing folder the same thing as the model.

I managed to get it in game, could probably do with some more poly's for close up. Also, my bump map doesn't seem to be working, do I need to do something to add it in via the rvmat or is it somewhere else?

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9s095g45chlz39a/20160503211607_1.jpg?dl=0

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3y5afdx13208u9x/20160503211600_1.jpg?dl=0

 

My texture could do with a bit of work but I don't think it was too far off at least.

[Macser 776]

I won't go into any lengthy descriptions as there's plenty of resource material on the wiki and here on these boards. But yes, you need to apply an rvmat to have your normal map rendered. If you want to get rid of those "lines" (flat shaded faces) then select the entire object in Object builder and set the edges to smooth. You can do the same from blender. On the properties panel in the 3d view window look for "Shading".

 

 

If you need sharp edges you're better off adding them manually. Just be sure to enable autosmooth for the object. This acts like the edge split modifier. It will make any sharp edges you define visible in the viewport and mark them for the exporter. Just use them sparingly.

 

 

If you need the mesh to look a little "smoother", cut in some extra loops near the end caps, using CTRL-R. I'll let you find the rest. Just look for anything relating to rvmats. Good job so far. Keep at it. :)

[[evo] dan 79]

so a normal map = bump map?

[Macser 776]

Essentially. Although in technical terms a normal map is more advanced.

 

http://blog.digitaltutors.com/bump-normal-and-displacement-maps/

 

That should give you an idea of what you're dealing with.

[[evo] dan 79]

With smoothing on, it looked a lot better in game. Still need to try to get a normal map to work. Going to have go do some googling to see how to do it in gimp or paint.net.

[[evo] dan 79]

I don't think my bump map is working quite right, doesn't seem to be showing up in game or is it that I haven't set enough depth or something?

 

Here are some pictures from ingame:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wnedutozx7o2y3b/20160508170938_1.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9s095g45chlz39a/20160503211607_1.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3y5afdx13208u9x/20160503211600_1.jpg?dl=0

 

And here is a .rar copy of all the stuff that I have put together:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zh352r4h7252wxh/RandomObject.rar?dl=0

 

Heres the .pbo for anyone who wants to try it ingame to see if its just my eyes:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/go0kf0k0pql7yqc/%40RandomObjects.rar?dl=0

[Jackal326 1181]

I don't think my bump map is working quite right, doesn't seem to be showing up in game or is it that I haven't set enough depth or something?

 

Here are some pictures from ingame:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wnedutozx7o2y3b/20160508170938_1.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9s095g45chlz39a/20160503211607_1.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3y5afdx13208u9x/20160503211600_1.jpg?dl=0

 

And here is a .rar copy of all the stuff that I have put together:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zh352r4h7252wxh/RandomObject.rar?dl=0

 

Heres the .pbo for anyone who wants to try it ingame to see if its just my eyes:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/go0kf0k0pql7yqc/%40RandomObjects.rar?dl=0

Downloading the RAR now to take a look.

While I wait for it to download, you'll want to smooth out that cylinder, a great many sharp edges all the way around  :blink:

 

EDIT: Its done downloading, and the first thing that jumps out at me is the file names. Try not to have any spaces in there, as that could be causing issues, so change 'Oil Container 2 bump_NOHQ.paa' to 'Oil_Container_2_bump_NOHQ.paa' or similar. The RVMAT will also need to be adjusted accordingly to name use of the new file names.

 

EDIT 2: OK, just tried changing it myself and it didn't work. However, in editing the rvmat I found that IT could be the cause.

 

EDIT 3: OK, I re-did the RVMAT and the normal works fine now:

class StageTI
{
	texture="#(argb,8,8,3)color(0.5,0,0,0,TI)";
};
ambient[]={1,1,1,1};
diffuse[]={1,1,1,1};
forcedDiffuse[]={0,0,0,1};
emmisive[]={0,0,0,0};
specular[]={1,1,1,1};
specularPower=5;
PixelShaderID="Super";
VertexShaderID="Super";
class Stage1
{
	texture="RandomObject\Oil_Container_2_bump_NOHQ.paa";
	uvSource="tex";
	class uvTransform
	{
		aside[]={1,0,0};
		up[]={0,1,0};
		dir[]={0,0,0};
		pos[]={0,0,0};
	};
};
class Stage2
{
	texture="#(argb,8,8,3)color(0.5,0.5,0.5,0.5,DT)";
	uvSource="tex";
	class uvTransform
	{
		aside[]={1,0,0};
		up[]={0,1,0};
		dir[]={0,0,0};
		pos[]={0,0,0};
	};
};
class Stage3
{
	texture="#(argb,8,8,3)color(0,0,0,0,MC)";
	uvSource="tex";
	class uvTransform
	{
		aside[]={1,0,0};
		up[]={0,1,0};
		dir[]={0,0,0};
		pos[]={0,0,0};
	};
};
class Stage4
{
	texture="#(argb,8,8,3)color(1,1,1,1,AS)";
	uvSource="tex";
	class uvTransform
	{
		aside[]={1,0,0};
		up[]={0,1,0};
		dir[]={0,0,0};
		pos[]={0,0,0};
	};
};
class Stage5
{
	texture="#(argb,8,8,3)color(1,1,1,1,SMDI)";
	uvSource="tex";
	class uvTransform
	{
		aside[]={1,0,0};
		up[]={0,1,0};
		dir[]={0,0,0};
		pos[]={0,0,0};
	};
};
class Stage6
{
	texture="#(ai,64,64,1)fresnelGlass()";
	uvSource="none";
};
class Stage7
{
	texture="a3\data_f\env_land_co.paa";
	uvSource="tex";
	class uvTransform
	{
		aside[]={1,0,0};
		up[]={0,1,0};
		dir[]={0,0,0};
		pos[]={0,0,0};
	};
};

[[evo] dan 79]

Thanks for looking at that for me!

 

So, was it the rvmat, or the filenames themselves, i'm kind of confused now.

[Jackal326 1181]

So, was it the rvmat, or the filenames themselves, i'm kind of confused now.

Changing the file name didn't fix it on its own, so I edited the rvmat and that seemed to do the trick. I kept the changed file name as I couldn't be arsed top change it back :P

[[evo] dan 79]

Guess it just needed the extra stages then or something.

[Jackal326 1181]

Guess it just needed the extra stages then or something.

I'm not 100% sure but I seem to remember reading somewhere a long time ago about it being related to the

PixelShaderID="Super";
VertexShaderID="Super";

part, but I could be wrong. Your old RVMAT didn't use the "Super" pixel/vertex shader, which may or may not have been related.

[[evo] dan 79]

Its works ingame now, so now its time to go and do some proper modelling!

 

Thank you so much all!

[[evo] dan 79]

Quick question guys, i've noticed this in game as a way BIS get 2 cylinders to meet up, is this an acceptable way of doing it as I assume they've just hidden the base of one cylinder through the other and then just joined them in the software rather than trying to graft it on.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m7xn9x3zc0dwblx/20160515180830_1.jpg?dl=0

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0twkid6r74lx512/20160515180838_1.jpg?dl=0

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rstf4haglsiaozm/20160515180857_1.jpg?dl=0

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rstf4haglsiaozm/20160515180857_1.jpg?dl=0

[Jackal326 1181]

Its the most economical/efficient way of doing it. Its ~10 faces (or more) of the intersecting cylinder, but if they "grated it on" it would be more faces having to account for the curves and contours of the two cylinders merging..

[[evo] dan 79]

Its the most economical/efficient way of doing it. Its ~10 faces (or more) of the intersecting cylinder, but if they "grated it on" it would be more faces having to account for the curves and contours of the two cylinders merging..

That's good to know, was planning on doing something to add little bits of pipework to my model to make it a bit less bland.

[[evo] dan 79]

I've made another object, a basic oil drum. Now, i'm planning on making several using the same model but with a different texture on each one, also each one will have a different function such as being able to fuel cars or fuel aircraft etc. Would I need to have multiple p3d's of my model to be able to achieve this or could it be done with a single config file with multiple defined classes in? Also how would I go about telling it which texture to use as a replacement.

 

Heres a picture of the first texture (yes I know the top is a little bugged because the normal is the wrong way around).

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hadrzwcsc651f9b/Oil_Drums.pbo?dl=0

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/th1m6vgm140e1ax/Oil%20Drum%20Early%20Render%201.png?dl=0

[six_ten 208]

I've made another object, a basic oil drum. Now, i'm planning on making several using the same model but with a different texture on each one, also each one will have a different function such as being able to fuel cars or fuel aircraft etc. Would I need to have multiple p3d's of my model to be able to achieve this or could it be done with a single config file with multiple defined classes in? Also how would I go about telling it which texture to use as a replacement.

You can use one model with "with a single config file with multiple defined classes in" and the corresponding scripts for fuel, water, etc.  In your model, select the parts of the barrel whose textures you want to change and create named selections.  I might do something like Camo_Lid, Camo_Label, Camo_Body (I usually preface the tex selection names with Camo so they're easy to distinguish, but they can be called whatever you like).  In your config you then have a HiddenSelections entry and you list all of those IN ORDER, even if you're not going to change one or two of them, and then you wind up with something similar to:

		hiddenSelections[] = {"Camo_Breeches","Camo_Coat","Camo_Hose","Camo_NeckStock","Camo_Overalls","Camo_Shirt","Camo_Waistcoat","Camo_Z"};
		hiddenSelectionsTextures[] = {"ART\ART_Character\Clothing\Breeches_Linen_CO.paa","ART\ART_Character\Clothing\Coatee_2dVA_1777_CO.paa","ART\ART_Character\Clothing\Hose_Linen_CO.paa","ART\ART_Character\Clothing\NeckStock_Black_CO.paa","ART\ART_Character\Clothing\Overalls_Linen_co.paa","ART\ART_Character\Clothing\Shirt_Linen_CO.paa","ART\ART_Character\Clothing\Waistcoat_Linen_CO.paa","ART\ART_Character\Clothing\Z_co.paa"};

Using the above I'm able to change out for example Breeches_Linen_CO.paa for Breeches_Wool_CO.paa and so on.  If you think you'll only ever want to change one texture on a version you can simply select the entire model, add a named selection like "Camo" and be done with it.

 

I have a lot of barrels and would like to have one version that supplies drinking water -- what script are you using for that?

[[evo] dan 79]

You can use one model with "with a single config file with multiple defined classes in" and the corresponding scripts for fuel, water, etc.  In your model, select the parts of the barrel whose textures you want to change and create named selections.  I might do something like Camo_Lid, Camo_Label, Camo_Body (I usually preface the tex selection names with Camo so they're easy to distinguish, but they can be called whatever you like).  In your config you then have a HiddenSelections entry and you list all of those IN ORDER, even if you're not going to change one or two of them, and then you wind up with something similar to:

		hiddenSelections[] = {"Camo_Breeches","Camo_Coat","Camo_Hose","Camo_NeckStock","Camo_Overalls","Camo_Shirt","Camo_Waistcoat","Camo_Z"};
		hiddenSelectionsTextures[] = {"ART\ART_Character\Clothing\Breeches_Linen_CO.paa","ART\ART_Character\Clothing\Coatee_2dVA_1777_CO.paa","ART\ART_Character\Clothing\Hose_Linen_CO.paa","ART\ART_Character\Clothing\NeckStock_Black_CO.paa","ART\ART_Character\Clothing\Overalls_Linen_co.paa","ART\ART_Character\Clothing\Shirt_Linen_CO.paa","ART\ART_Character\Clothing\Waistcoat_Linen_CO.paa","ART\ART_Character\Clothing\Z_co.paa"};

Using the above I'm able to change out for example Breeches_Linen_CO.paa for Breeches_Wool_CO.paa and so on.  If you think you'll only ever want to change one texture on a version you can simply select the entire model, add a named selection like "Camo" and be done with it.

 

I have a lot of barrels and would like to have one version that supplies drinking water -- what script are you using for that?

Thanks for that advice. I'll just make the barrel just a single hidden selection because of its simplicity.

 

I've not put any scripts into the config yet as I've been busy with work. Going to do a couple of reskins first before putting some scripts in but I don't think the model is too far off.

 

I'm probably not going to do water as we don't use any survival mods, but who knows if someone tells me how to interact with their mod I might add it in.

[[evo] dan 79]

I've just created a second texture for the unit and modified the cfg file appropriately. However, even when I select the 2nd object in the editor, it still leaves the original skin on it. I've created a named selection within object builder and the name matches without giving me any errors. Can someone point me to where I am going wrong?

 

Here is the code from my config.cfg:

class CfgPatches
{
	class dan_skydrol_drum
	{
		units[] = {"dan_skydrol_drum"};
		weapons[] = {};
		requiredVersion = 0.1;
		requiredAddons[] = {};
	};
	class dan_water_drum
	{
		units[] = {"dan_water_drum"};
		weapons[] = {};
		requiredVersion = 0.1;
		requiredAddons[] = {};
	};
};

class CfgVehicles
{
	class Static;
	class dan_skydrol_drum : Static
	{
		scope = 2;
		model = "\Oil_Drums\Oil_Drum.p3d";
		displayName = "Skydrol Drum";
		vehicleClass = "small_items";
	};
	class dan_water_drum : Static
	{
		scope = 2;
		model = "\Oil_Drums\Oil_Drum.p3d";
		displayName = "Water Drum";
		vehicleClass = "small_items";
		hiddenSelections[] = {"CAMO_All"};
		hiddenSelectionsTextures[] = {"\Oil_Drums\Oil_Drum_Water_Texture.paa"};
	};
};

And here is as link to the project folder if anyone is interested:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1xxrms1wfy5171h/Oil_Drums.rar?dl=0

 

And the prebuilt PBO:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hadrzwcsc651f9b/Oil_Drums.pbo?dl=0

[Jackal326 1181]

Is "CAMO_All" defined in the CfgSkeletons section of your model.cfg?

[[evo] dan 79]

No. I only have what is in the pack above and no model.cfg only a config.cfg. I'll have to go into the object builder and get it to create one later I guess or create the config based on the sample pack.