Car Left and Right [Analog] won't steer tracked vehicles

[rangoon 0]

In Arma 2, using my HOTAS to steer tracked vehicles works fine. However, in Arma 3, the same controls steer wheeled vehicles but not tracked vehicles. My only work-around presently is to use keyboard/mouse for tracked vehicles (keyboard for left/right and mouse for more left/right). Everything works fine for wheeled vehicles. Is there a way to fix this presently?

[ratszo 17]

Yeah, tracked units clutch to turn, hence the difference.

My JS has a 'twisty', so x-axis for steering wheel & twist for tracked.

A quick remap in-game is maybe the easiest way to go.

Got pedals? I remember driving a small d-4 cat. It had clutch pedals for 'hands free' driving.

[Edit] --forgot to mention: If you map an axis to more than one function, the range of the axis will split.

So 2 functions on one axis will decrease the range 50% on each.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Ratszo

[darkcochon 10]

HI,

Good tip for twist!

If you bind analog and "classic" steering on same axis, the vehicule will end very bad indeed.

[rangoon 0]

Yeah, tracked units clutch to turn, hence the difference.

My JS has a 'twisty', so x-axis for steering wheel & twist for tracked.

A quick remap in-game is maybe the easiest way to go.

Got pedals? I remember driving a small d-4 cat. It had clutch pedals for 'hands free' driving.

[Edit] --forgot to mention: If you map an axis to more than one function, the range of the axis will split.

So 2 functions on one axis will decrease the range 50% on each.

Tnanks, Ratszo. This isn't a problem in A2 (regardless of the IRL difference between track/wheel) and I guess I don't get the impression this is a realism feature. I do use pedals, and they work fine for acceleration deceleration (toe brakes) and infantry lean (pedal axis). I suppose I could try the pedal axis for tracks, but I think all the other steering axes interplay, so it gets messy fast. I don't want compounding inputs. I want what A2 had, which is the simple ability to steer wheel/track all the same. From a sim engine and control input standpoint, I don't see any logic in making these different.

[phazoneater 10]

I've asked me the same question: Is it possible to use the same input method for track and wheel based vehicles ? Actualy i am using my gamepad to drive wheeled vhicles and the keyboar for tanks.

It would be nice if i could use the pad for both.

[ratszo 17]

Yesterday, drove a tank in the 'Rolling Thunder' event. Changed the left/right from the twisty to the X-axis.., quick & easy.

Inputs are nice and smooth.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Ratszo

[phazoneater 10]

Yes, you can map the controls for tracked and wheeled vehicles on different axis or input devices and control then analog. But as soon as you bind them on the same axis, you get weird behavior.

I hope i got the topic right, else just ignore my post.

[rangoon 0]

Yes, you can map the controls for tracked and wheeled vehicles on different axis or input devices and control then analog. But as soon as you bind them on the same axis, you get weird behavior.

I hope i got the topic right, else just ignore my post.

You got it right. And I have confirmed this behavior, too. It's like what you and Ratszo have said about losing full travel recognition on an axis which is bound to multiple entries in the control configuration.

[doveman 7]

So if I bind my stick to helos and planes, let alone any ground vehicles, I lose full travel for both? If so, that just sucks!

[rangoon 0]

So if I bind my stick to helos and planes, let alone any ground vehicles, I lose full travel for both? If so, that just sucks!

I don't think so. I believe it's only within the same group. I have HOTAS axes bound across groups and haven't noticed this; only within one group.

[doveman 7]

Phew, that's a relief. Thanks.

[ratszo 17]

So if I bind my stick to helos and planes, let alone any ground vehicles, I lose full travel for both? If so, that just sucks!

I got a trick using the 'reduced range' feature that works very well:

Both the X-axis and the twisty Z-axis are mapped to 'Left/Right analog' function.

What that does is split the range of each axis 50/50 --with only 50% range on the X-axis, driving is very smooth, no over-correcting.

For a sharp, full turn, use X-axis AND twisty axis for a max turn --much like hand-over-hand turning. Works great on the road.

[doveman 7]

I thought the problem manifested when binding an axis to multiple controls, not when binding two axes to the same controls, as you're doing???

[ratszo 17]

I thought the problem manifested when binding an axis to multiple controls, not when binding two axes to the same controls, as you're doing???

Per function. Say i bound X-axis, twisty, and Pedals to left/right analog -- each will travel 33%.

I tried that on a cart roadrace mission..., was sweet handling at high speed.

Also use the trick on helos.., left/right collectives, half/half deadens the pitch for smaller inputs.

Could try it on fixed-wing too --say one wanted less rudder authority?

[rangoon 0]

Also within the same group, though. For example, if I bind Car Left to X- and Car Right to X+, then also car analog left to X- and car analog right to x+, I get this:

get in a tank. Nothing happens for the first 50% of travel in either direction, then it starts steering

get in a wheeled vehicle. I can steer for 50% then it gets jumpy and stutters as it approaches full steering deflection (seen in tires 3D view or hands on steering wheel 1st person view). It's at full steering by 50% of input, and stutters until I hit full input on the controller. Then on the way back to center, steering returns to center 50% out from controller center.

So it's both on the same bind as well as other binds within the same group. Maybe not consistently, but certainly in this particular case. But I've never seen it across groupings like between car, helicopter, and fixed-wing. X+ and X- can be bound to car analog left/right and cyclic left/right and aileron left/right without problem.

Of course the helicopter AFM vs. BFM collective input situation is still a problem, but I digress.

[ratszo 17]

Also within the same group, though. For example, if I bind Car Left to X- and Car Right to X+, then also car analog left to X- and car analog right to x+, I get this:

get in a tank. Nothing happens for the first 50% of travel in either direction, then it starts steering

get in a wheeled vehicle. I can steer for 50% then it gets jumpy and stutters as it approaches full steering deflection (seen in tires 3D view or hands on steering wheel 1st person view). It's at full steering by 50% of input, and stutters until I hit full input on the controller. Then on the way back to center, steering returns to center 50% out from controller center.

So it's both on the same bind as well as other binds within the same group. Maybe not consistently, but certainly in this particular case. But I've never seen it across groupings like between car, helicopter, and fixed-wing. X+ and X- can be bound to car analog left/right and cyclic left/right and aileron left/right without problem.

Of course the helicopter AFM vs. BFM collective input situation is still a problem, but I digress.

Yeah, binding both actions creates conflict. Tho with tanks, they don't use analog. So, one only needs to input x-axis for turn left/right without needing to delete the analog x-axis input.

So, the easiest thing for driving tanks is to add axis to turn, then delete when finished. No need to look at the analog setting.

[rangoon 0]

Yeah, binding both actions creates conflict. Tho with tanks, they don't use analog. So, one only needs to input x-axis for turn left/right without needing to delete the analog x-axis input.

So, the easiest thing for driving tanks is to add axis to turn, then delete when finished. No need to look at the analog setting.

Right, I realize that, but as a case in point, if you do bind both, you get the 50/50 behavior. Having to change control binds is fine when you're just starting a mission, or out of mission, of course, but to go through that during a mission with multiple vehicle types is just the luck of the draw whether or not you have time to do it. So it's an unfortunate glitch in A3 right now. I have to use m+kb for tanks and HOTAS for wheeled vehicles. I don't like using mouse for steering (the car more/left steering is okay with mouse but not ideal).

[ratszo 17]

Well, am thinkin' of another way....

Ok, on my js i can bind key presses to axis' --even with key presses, arma still sees the axis. It sees both.

So say you used A/D left/right turn (or any keys that don't conflict). X-axis acts as keystrokes in a tank, and as a normal axis in analog.

Thats to say your software can do that.

[rangoon 0]

Well, am thinkin' of another way....

Ok, on my js i can bind key presses to axis' --even with key presses, arma still sees the axis. It sees both.

So say you used A/D left/right turn (or any keys that don't conflict). X-axis acts as keystrokes in a tank, and as a normal axis in analog.

Thats to say your software can do that.

I use CH controls, and the Control Manager software can do almost anything you can dream up. The keypress thing wouldn't work for me because then you only have full deflection, and I can just as well use the keyboard for that (I don't use the throttle controller for wheel/track driving, only aircraft). But you're on the right track. What I can do is something I've already done to make up for A2 and A3 control shortcomings. I have several buttons on my HOTAS which adjust how the axes are scaled or output, and even which controllers feed which digital axes. I can make another axis, then have a HOTAS button select it like a mode, such that the old axis is replaced with the new one. And speaking of that, I also have noticed that assigning a HOTAS axis to car left/right only seems to work on the outside 50% of x+/x- (or whatever) regardless of whether you have x+/x- assigned elsewhere. So I guess it's just those keybinds and the tracks that are generally uncooperative (well, take your pick which one is). But back on topic, that would be the way to work around this. And I've done that already for A3: I have infantry, helicopter, and fixed-wing modes. I just need to add a tracked-vehicle mode as well, then adjust the scale so that it skips the entire inside 50% of the range (remind anyone of Arma 2 flight controls with the undefeatable deadzones? - that's how you defeat them, skipping 10-20% of the axis travel in your HOTAS software) and assigned to car left/right.

EDIT: I created another mode script as described above and it does work fine. If I don't remember to switch them, tanks won't steer and wheels only get half of their range, but by selecting the proper modes now I have full analog steering on tracks and wheels. Ratszo, thanks for prompting me to just do this; it had crossed my mind, but I really didn't want to go through the extra hassle. In the end, it really only took a few minutes and now it's working fine. Hopefully they will address this properly.

Edited April 22, 2015 by rangoon

[doveman 7]

I tried out the various settings and didn't find anything using the stick/pedals that worked for me driving wheeled vehicles. I find I can drive fast and stick to the road much easier just using the keyboard and mouse. I tried binding both my joystick (MS Sidewinder FFB2) Y axis to forward/backward and the X axis and my pedals to car left/right. Whilst this does give more control, as it dampens down both the X axis and pedals, so using one alone doesn't steer much and you have to use them together to make anything more than minor adjustments, it just makes it far more complicated than using the mouse and keyboard. I might try with my Xbox360 gamepad later though, that might be better suited to wheeled vehicles.

I tried the same with tracked vehicles and it seems a bit more suited to those but it's still probably going to be easier to use M&KB or gamepad. I think there needs to be separate tabs for wheeled and tracked vehicles (I think UAVs should have a separate tab as well, so they don't have to use the helo mappings), so that for wheeled we could map the pedal toe brakes to accelerate and brake/reverse and the joystick X axis (or mouse) to steer, (Y axis wouldn't be used), whilst for tracked we could have the toe brakes unmapped, the pedals mapped to track left/right and the joystick Y axis to forward/backwards.

Forward/backward is confusing terminology, as is having left/right together with left/right (analog). I think of all stick/pedal axis as analog, in the sense that they're not simple binary on/off controls, so it would be natural to map my stick or pedals to anything labelled (analog) but then we find that anything mapped to these doesn't control tracked vehicles at all.

We shouldn't have to map two inputs to reduce the sensitivity of both and use both inputs to have decent control and there should be sufficient settings in-game to be able to adjust the sensitivity, etc of each input. We could probably do with separate settings for the various types of vehicles, as we might need one set of sensitivity/deadzone/saturation settings when using the stick to control wheeled vehicles, another for tracked vehicles, another for helos and another for planes.

[tvamvarg 0]

I also see no reason why wheel shouldn't work for tracked vehicles: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?173087-Analogue-steering-(dev-branch)