Weapon texturing workflow

[iamthesux 10]

After porting the Mk48 over from A2, I decided to add a bit more detail to the model. A bit turned into a bunch and now I'm at a point where I need make sure I'm heading in the right direction before I end up wasting my time.

Given that I can no longer use the original textures, do I (in order):

Make the model as detailed as possible (tiny screws and springs etc), and not worry about polycount.

Texture it and make it look nice using blender materials

Create a copy of the high poly model to use as the view pilot lod and decimate it to an acceptable level.

Use that pilot lod to create a uv map.

Use the high poly model to bake the texture, normal, specular and occlusion maps onto the lower poly uv map

Also, what should I be aiming for in terms of poly count when it comes to the view pilot lod? I've read 6k but I've also heard 20k so I'm not really sure. And when considering poly count, should I be counting actual faces, or all the tris that make up those faces?

I apologize if this has been answered a million times, but I promise that if you guys answer all my stupid questions, I will deliver the most accurate and beautiful set of Mk 48's as humanly possible, and that all files will be delivered, open and free to use by anyone and everyone, in any mod pack or for any purpose within the limits of the APL, for all of eternity.

Obligatory pics:

http://imgur.com/p84TeCU

http://imgur.com/2BC7DI6

http://imgur.com/ZzoI5jW

All critiques, advice, suggestions etc are welcome.

[PuFu 4600]

First and foremost, you seem to be confusing some terms and workflows here, so i'll try to explain a bit:

1. You do need to worry about the polycount. SO in short, you cannot just model every little detail and get the mesh in game. That said, you can model everything for your high poly mesh, and bake it down to your low poly model - as in your game mesh.

2. Making it look "nice" using blender materials is a waste of time. The shaders from blender do not translate to RV engine. You will need the textures, but using the RVMat.

3. For weapons, LOD0 and pilot LOD should be more or less (with an emphasis on more - to be read "=") exactly the same.

4. Here is a the weird part: what does and UV map (which you'll need anyways) have to do with the pilot LOD? I really don't understand what you are trying to say here.

5. Again, you can bake everything really (from the diffuse to specular etc). But you'd need first to create (in blender this time) all the shaders (using the textures) on your high poly model then bake it all down. The more efficient way is to bake only the normals and the AO (or as Bi calls it _as map), then simply create the rest manually. It is a lot faster, a you have a lot more control that way.

Polycount: this has been answered numerous times before. Myself have given a pretty explicit answer more than 5 times in the last year, concerning face count, the relation with vertices normals etc etc.

To answer this once more: BI weapons for A3 are about 10-12k tris per .p3d (that does not include the proxy attachments). Your model should be more or less the same.

In short, what i would suggest you doing (or in fact what i would do if i were you): model everything you can that is visible and thus creating your high poly mode. retopology rather then simple reduce/decimate the low poly model on top of your high poly, taking the limits above into account. UV Unwrap it. Bake normals and AO, then create the diffuse, specular , detail maps as you please, taking into account the way they need to be done for the RvMat using the SuperShader. Profit.

PS: in general, my weapons High Poly models are about 3-5 mil polygons using ~3 iterations of openSubD tech (or a similar Catmull-Clark algorithm that is), and the game mesh 9~12k. Just to give you an idea. The most important bake is the normals, since it is something that is not that easy to replicate in 2d environment (photoshop for instance). So you get the chance to smooth all the edges, and create properly looking curves that would later be baked into your low poly model, giving the overall impression that the model has more "depth" and "detail" than it actually has.

After porting the Mk48 over from A2, I decided to add a bit more detail to the model. A bit turned into a bunch and now I'm at a point where I need make sure I'm heading in the right direction before I end up wasting my time.

Given that I can no longer use the original textures, do I (in order):

Make the model as detailed as possible (tiny screws and springs etc), and not worry about polycount.

Texture it and make it look nice using blender materials

Create a copy of the high poly model to use as the view pilot lod and decimate it to an acceptable level.

Use that pilot lod to create a uv map.

Use the high poly model to bake the texture, normal, specular and occlusion maps onto the lower poly uv map

Also, what should I be aiming for in terms of poly count when it comes to the view pilot lod? I've read 6k but I've also heard 20k so I'm not really sure. And when considering poly count, should I be counting actual faces, or all the tris that make up those faces?

I apologize if this has been answered a million times, but I promise that if you guys answer all my stupid questions, I will deliver the most accurate and beautiful set of Mk 48's as humanly possible, and that all files will be delivered, open and free to use by anyone and everyone, in any mod pack or for any purpose within the limits of the APL, for all of eternity.

Obligatory pics:

http://imgur.com/p84TeCU

http://imgur.com/2BC7DI6

http://imgur.com/ZzoI5jW

All critiques, advice, suggestions etc are welcome.

Edited October 13, 2014 by PuFu

[x3kj 1247]

3. For weapons, LOD0 and pilot LOD should be more or less (with an emphasis on more - to be read "=") exactly the same.

Why should they be the same? I would use the viewpilot LOD to make the Rearsight (which sits very close to your eye) a bit higher poly. Because in 3rd person view you wont notice that. Does something speak against this usage? I haven't done it yet, but i plan to.

For polycounts - you can use eliteness to see statistics of binarized A3 models. For each LOD you can see how many faces it has, how many vertices, which materials (and its content), which named properties, see the skeleton and so on. The only thing you cant do is seeing a visual representation or convert it to a readable format (which would be illegal).

[PuFu 4600]

Why should they be the same? I would use the viewpilot LOD to make the Rearsight (which sits very close to your eye) a bit higher poly. Because in 3rd person view you wont notice that. Does something speak against this usage? I haven't done it yet, but i plan to.

For polycounts - you can use eliteness to see statistics of binarized A3 models. For each LOD you can see how many faces it has, how many vertices, which materials (and its content), which named properties, see the skeleton and so on. The only thing you cant do is seeing a visual representation or convert it to a readable format (which would be illegal).

I haven't said "the same", i said more or less the same. Of course you are right, especially about the details that are really close to the players eye. But the difference between pilot LOD and LOD 0 is no where near lod 0 and lod 1 (as in 1/2) is it?

[iamthesux 10]

Thanks for taking the time to answer. It's been very helpful.

However I'm still a bit confused about making the actual texture image(or as BIS calls it _co). Could I not texture it in blender with the understanding that material properties will have to be converted to rvmats, then bake it the same way I would the normal map?

Im thinking of something like the model number on the side of the gun, it would exist in the normal and specular maps as well as the texture. Is the _co texture and this sort of detail usually done in photoshop after you've baked everything?

[PuFu 4600]

have read about the RvMat here: https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Super_shader

have a read about sufix for the texture maps here: https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/TexView_2_Manual#How_to_use_it

Now on your question: i wasn't aware you can create a production ready 2d texture in blender. I know it's got some sort of painting subapp similar to the sculpt one (and similar to mudbox for instance). Yes of course you can use that, at least for your diffuse, but that depends on your workflow. And yes, you can create procedural textures and materials that you can bake into a bitmap just as well (similar to baking the normals).

For geometric details that have been punched in the metal (such as serial numebers etc) you'd need to have in normals map just as well. It is not not mandatory to have it in the diffuse, but it is advisable. It can also be used in the macro map (as i have found out not long ago, by using a second UVset for the faces you have details on, taking advantage of more pixels this way).

For painted sort of details, such as mag numbering, or writting soldier's units name on the side of the stock or what not, you don't need that information in the normals map.

It is very dependent on the workflow: for instance once i am done with the 3d modelling side of things and baking down normals and AO, i switch to a 2d environment such asphotoshop for diffuse, specular etc. You could have those directly painted in a 3d space (for instance using zbrush, mudbox or even blender if it's painting app is powerful enough - sorry i have little knowledge about blender) without the need to go through a 2d application at all. There is no right or wrong way.

[iamthesux 10]

Very informative. Thanks again for all the help.