oxmox 73 Posted October 3, 2014 Hongkong Protests 2014 In September 2014, pro-democracy advocates in Hong Kong protested outside the government headquarters and occupied several major city intersections soon after the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress (NPCSC) announced its decision on proposed electoral reform. The Hong Kong Federation of Students and Scholarism began protesting outside the government headquarters on 22 September 2014. When Occupy Central with Love and Peace declared the launch of the campaign, many protesters came out with the purpose of supporting the students. Furthermore, the occupation phase of the campaign was organised neither by the the Hong Kong Federation of Students nor Occupy Central with Love and Peace. Occupy Central (Chinese: ä½”é ˜ä¸ç’° or ä½”ä¸) is a civil disobedience campaign initiated by Benny Tai Yiu-ting, Associate Professor of Law at the University of Hong Kong, and advocated by Occupy Central with Love and Peace (organisation; OCLP; è®“æ„›èˆ‡å’Œå¹³ä½”é ˜ä¸ç’° or 和平佔ä¸). In the course of the 2014 Hong Kong electoral reform, OCLP intends to pressure the PRC Government into granting an electoral system which "satisf[ies] the international standards in relation to universal suffrage" in Hong Kong Chief Executive election in 2017 Around noon on 28 September, protesters led by Civic Passion marched onto Harcourt Road and proceeded to occupy Queensway as well, blocking both east-west arterial routes in northern Hong Kong Island. After a several hour standoff, police attempted to disperse crowds with pepper spray, tear gas, and water cannons, and held signs reading 'Stop Charging or We Use Force'. Background In the Sino-British Joint Declaration of 1984, the governments of the United Kingdom and China agreed Hong Kong would revert back to Chinese control in July 1997 and stated the basic policies under which the city would be governed after the handover. Under the principle of "one country, two systems", Hong Kong would enjoy "a high degree of autonomy, except in foreign and defence affairs" for 50 years after the transfer of sovereignty.Annex I of the treaty states the Hong Kong's leader, the Chief Executive, would eventually be selected by election or through consultations and the legislature would be chosen through elections. Stated goals by Hong Kong Federation of Students and Scholarism: *Universal suffrage *Resignation of Chief Executive CY Leung *Withdrawal of the decision by the National People's Congress Standing Committee What is your opinion about the demonstrations ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted October 3, 2014 Taking away freedom from an educated people isn't an easy task. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spooky lynx 73 Posted October 3, 2014 "Senator McCain visited Hongkong and met with protest leaders Yay Tse Nyuk and Tya Gni Bok"© Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted October 3, 2014 Taking away freedom from an educated people isn't an easy task. +1 Some thought that China would evolve with the good examples of Hong Kong, Macao and the free trade zone of Shanghai... But seems that only economically. The aurhoritarism is still alive and growing in militarism ( check the vetoes in the UNSC, strengthening of the PLA, the incidents in the Sea of China, etc. ). But yeah, it's a good example of how educated people used to democracy feels when authoritarism tries to bend them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) +1 Some thought that China would evolve with the good examples of Hong Kong, Macao and the free trade zone of Shanghai... But seems that only economically. The aurhoritarism is still alive and growing in militarism ( check the vetoes in the UNSC, strengthening of the PLA, the incidents in the Sea of China, etc. ). But yeah, it's a good example of how educated people used to democracy feels when authoritarism tries to bend them. Well if the country is ready for it and such a movement is motivated by their own people this sounds fine, but there are already some infos in the air that this is just another "color revolution" with interferences from abroad. At the moment I dont see that the main country China is ready for a total change. We will see what will happening and if it is really only about Hongkong or about building a steppingstone to destabilize main China. The aurhoritarism is still alive and growing in militarism ( check the vetoes in the UNSC, strengthening of the PLA, the incidents in the Sea of China, etc. ). We should let em alone and not provoke the dragon. Any action has a counteraction. Edited October 3, 2014 by oxmox Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted October 3, 2014 Well if the country is ready for it and such a movement is motivated by their own people this sounds fine, but there are already some infos in the air that this is just another "color revolution" with interferences from abroad. I repeat, economically Hong Kong is completely open to foreign interests ( as are Macao, Shangai, etc. ), so all the foreign actors are happy as it is. The only ones who can find desperation are the inhabitants that saw how a supposed to be fully autonom region is being pushed into authoritarism. Check the agreements between UK and Portugal when they ceded the rule to China ( the communist regime one, not the traditional China, now mostly known as Taiwan ). We should let em alone and not provoke the dragon. Any action has a counteraction. No one is provoking the Dragon. It's the Dragon that woke up after a long sleep, and discovered that both US and Russia are weak; so now the Dragon wants to take their position and become a superpower. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) I repeat, economically Hong Kong is completely open to foreign interests ( as are Macao, Shangai, etc. ), so all the foreign actors are happy as it is.The only ones who can find desperation are the inhabitants that saw how a supposed to be fully autonom region is being pushed into authoritarism. Check the agreements between UK and Portugal when they ceded the rule to China ( the communist regime one, not the traditional China, now mostly known as Taiwan ). No one is provoking the Dragon. It's the Dragon that woke up after a long sleep, and discovered that both US and Russia are weak; so now the Dragon wants to take their position and become a superpower. I dont know enough yet what is the real background in the HongKong protests, you have to look if the current politics in HonKong interfere with international economical interests. Maybe it is just about some students protesting, but maybe there is more. In the meanwhile I wish the protesters good luck and especially peaceful demonstrations. China will become a superpower, thats natural watching the amount of people living in the country and the economic growth. Their political and economical system is much more structured and has an advantage in comparison to western nations, if someon like it or not. But there is a current superpower who is trying to fight for their own influence and keeping in power. If Russia and China would unite stronger it would be probably a nightmare. Instead of taking Russia closer as an economical partner they push them to Asia. Are these really european interests, from where they want to get their energy ? Shipped from Canada/USA or from Israel/Greece since they did find huge shale oil fields in front of their coast line ? Russia is already building pipelines to China, after the current mess in Europe and after the EEU* (Eurasian Economic Union) seems not developing like Russia thought. This was one of the major controversials in the Ukraine, signing the EEU custom union or the EU association agreement. Russian-China Pipeline http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/09/01/uk-russia-gazprom-china-idUKKBN0GW2CH20140901 *EEU-Eurasian Union http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/06/russias-eurasian-union-could-endanger-the-neighborhood-and-us-interests Edited October 4, 2014 by oxmox Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted October 3, 2014 If Russia and China would unite stronger it would be probably a nightmare. Instead of taking Russia closer as an economical partner they push them to Asia. China laughs at Russia, its already stealing all the military intelligence they can from them. Also the "trick" of the aircraft carrier that Russia sold to China so they could transform it in a Casino... And the Chinese turned into a functional military one... The Dragon wants to rule alone. ( Pravda ) China shamelessly steals fighter jet technology from Russia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spooky lynx 73 Posted October 5, 2014 Someone desperately tries to save its economy from Great depression 2.0, so more chaos abroad - more chances to escape the collapse and get a boost like during WW2. China is just another in the list. Ukraine plan "a" becomes slow, so plan "b" is started. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted October 5, 2014 (edited) Someone desperately tries to save its economy from Great depression 2.0, so more chaos abroad - more chances to escape the collapse and get a boost like during WW2. China is just another in the list. Ukraine plan "a" becomes slow, so plan "b" is started. Written by Steven SpielbergTM. Every people seeking for freedom and democracy is a CIA agent, that's a well known fact. Edited October 5, 2014 by ProfTournesol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cozza 24 Posted October 5, 2014 damn west. don't screw up China. We in Australia have some pretty good trade going there. (or did. I forgot what the situation is atm) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spooky lynx 73 Posted October 5, 2014 Written by Steven SpielbergTM. Every people seeking for freedom and democracy is a CIA agent, that's a well known fact. Suddenly every people seeking for freedom in Qatar or Saudi Arabia get overrun by tanks and nobody cares. I wonder why? And this mess looks too similar to Ukrainian one. Even that chick performing English-speaking appeal in teh internet. Again some color symbols and peaceful protests at the beginning quickly escalated by protesters, together with quick reaction from some politicians. Too many similarities among that 'searches of freedom' for me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted October 5, 2014 Suddenly every people seeking for freedom in Qatar or Saudi Arabia get overrun by tanks and nobody cares. That may be in Russia, but at least here in Europe people care a lot of that freedom movements, and I also have read a lot of support to that movements in the USA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spooky lynx 73 Posted October 5, 2014 That may be in Russia, but at least here in Europe people care a lot of that freedom movements, and I also have read a lot of support to that movements in the USA. O RLY? And how many weapons and equipment were transferred to Qatari or Saudi opposition from EU or US? Or how many combat sorties were performed against those countries? Or maybe will you be so kind to list some heavy sanctions that were applied to that countries by EU and US? My glorious state's propaganda may not show them so maybe you will show it? Or maybe you will show at least any western higher politician that visited Qatari protesters and openly declared the support like at maidan in Ukraine? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted October 5, 2014 Spooky you confuse internal opposition, pro-democratic protests with an external orchestrated invasion ( like the Russian one in Ukraine ). Sanctions against Russia were precisely to deter its Gov from keeping invading forces and creating chaos. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spooky lynx 73 Posted October 5, 2014 Oh sure... Their ones are spies, ours are recons...© I ask again: why nobody among EU&US political establishment expressed open support to internal opposition and 'pro-democratic' protests in Qatar but does the opposite in Hongkong and Ukraine? Why Qatari opposition was openly smashed and their camp had been deomlished with army heavy vehicles (and Saudis ordered their army to help and driven it to Qatar) without any reaction like sanctions, weapon supplies or airstrikes (like in Syria and Libya) but Ukrainian, Syrian (earlier - Libyan) and Hongkong one is openly supported? Is it because Qatari protesters were Putin's agents? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sgt.Spoetnik 10 Posted October 5, 2014 And we might see the "sanction"trick on china mayby,depending on their(indirect action in hong kong) and how they will treath the protests. let me ask you this(again): who willl benifit if the police and mayby some army units start to go heavy handed against the protesters and students,and so they can blame those red chinese?! It will depend on how far some "forces" have already infiltrated the protest top and how well they will get these leaders at their side(with money and perks) and push their agenda(you know hyjack the protest, start violence and wath not agains police, so they will respond harder) and then start a propaganda piece on those violent police forces(and mayby their leaders,mayby even to the top of the party) sounds familiar no? but we will see in a couple hours wat the police will do when the ultimatum from the goverment runs out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lesscubes 1 Posted October 5, 2014 The straw man argument is so, so popular... Spooky, does Russia have a dog in this fight? That you know of? Also, you do realize that McCain kind of does his own thing right? Not every action by a US politician is actual sanctioned US policy. Kinda crazy right? That kind of thing happens when you have a multi-party democracy instead of... Whatever the hell the Russian Federation is. (Read as, Barack Obama doesn't have complete control, of the Government or even his own Party, like Vladimir Putin) Also worth noting McCain's personal history, if you want some kind of insight into his actions. You're entirely right that the US may not have levied sanctions against the Saudi or Qatari governments. You also know exactly why- only you'll ignore it because it doesn't fit your narrative. (That the US and EU specifically back movements that are anti-Russian in nature only, and have no other reason to do so.) All those things said, a lot of Americans don't care for supporting the House of Saud, or the Pakistani government, or any number of other US backed regimes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted October 6, 2014 Is support for the Hong Kong protests waning? With just a few hundreds pro-democracy campaigners camped in the streets, the student-led protests in Hong Kong seem to have subsided. It is hard to say what the majority of Hong Kongers believe as they remain silent. While the recent subdued scenes have left many wondering whether the movement has lost momentum, Rebecca Liao, a corporate attorney and writer specialized in Chinese politics and culture, says in a DW interview that there are no indications that public support for the pro-democracy movement in the territory is waning and that the current calm may be just a temporary retreat. http://www.dw.de/is-support-for-the-hong-kong-protests-waning/a-17975979 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted December 26, 2014 Hong Kong official warns protesters: leave or face arrest (nov. 2014) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/hongkong/11222315/Hong-Kong-official-warns-protesters-leave-or-face-arrest.html Arrests as Hong Kong protests return (26th december, 2014) Dozens taken away by police as pro-democracy movement adopts mobile tactics to block roads after break-up of encampments Hong Kong police said they arrested another 37 people as pro-democracy protesters returned to the streets in a second night of resurgent demonstrations demanding genuine elections for the city’s chief executive. The police said in a statement that protesters blocked five roads over Thursday night in the Mong Kok neighborhood and disobeyed police orders to disperse. Those arrested were aged from 13 to 76. Police arrested 12 protesters in the same neighbourhood on Wednesday night, also after they had blocked roads. A police statement said authorities “respect the public’s freedoms of expression, speech and assembly†but warned that protesters “should refrain from conducting public meetings and processions by way of the so-called ‘mobile occupation’â€. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/26/more-arrests-as-hong-kong-protests-return Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cptprice 10 Posted December 26, 2014 china and russia are in many aspects "good friends", however, i bet that the dragon would bite the bear (russia) if its for the own interest or other cases. ---------- Post added at 23:44 ---------- Previous post was at 23:38 ---------- "Senator McCain visited Hongkong and met with protest leaders Yay Tse Nyuk and Tya Gni Bok"© ohoh, that does not means anything good: libya syria ukraine after he went there, chaos started ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChronoZX 10 Posted January 6, 2015 China invade Hong Kong like they did with Tibet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
