kegetys 2 Posted July 6, 2002 http://koti.mbnet.fi/kegetys/flashpoint/screenshots/a10boom.jpg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paratrooper 0 Posted July 7, 2002 Its even more fun as you can now literaly blow people away with explosions in resistance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BS87 0 Posted July 7, 2002 i'd download that if it didn't go 4 kps on ym cable WITH DAP Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralphwiggum 6 Posted July 7, 2002 reminds me of a US TV show called "Airwolf" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BS87 0 Posted July 7, 2002 Given the fact that both Choppers are able to carry Air-to-Air missles, i think it would be over quicker than you think. Bassically i'd be up to who locked on and fire at first. Thus, again, giving the Apache the advantages, since the gunner can do all that and the pilot just flys. In the Hokum, the pilot has to do both. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Exodist 1 Posted July 7, 2002 It's VERY stable This pilos made it special for TV operator (voice in movie) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kegetys 2 Posted July 7, 2002 Well, I did a V80 vs 4xApaches dogfight, and I killed all the apaches with the cannon without taking much damage myself... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kegetys 2 Posted July 7, 2002 Hmm they do shoot each other fine on my OFP Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Prof.Wizard 0 Posted July 7, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (BS87 @ July 07 2002,11:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Given the fact that both Choppers are able to carry Air-to-Air missles, i think it would be over quicker than you think. Bassically i'd be up to who locked on and fire at first. Thus, again, giving the Apache the advantages, since the gunner can do all that and the pilot just flys. In the Hokum, the pilot has to do both.<span id='postcolor'> 1st) I was talking about a guns-only scenario. Why you throw missiles in the equation? 2nd) It's NOT only that the pilot is the gunner in Hokum is the same person. Read again my post. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
walker 0 Posted July 7, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I was talking about setting an "AI battle" between choppers in the game. Not manning the heli myself.<span id='postcolor'> Mwahahahahaha! yeah, right dude. Go for it. Arf arf. The AI winning agianst each other Just proves the AI is set to normal helicopter tactics it says nothing about the ability of the different Helicopters. All it tells you about is the AI I guess the real test would be 4 human players playing against each other Over several matches 1 against 2 each match but both teams swap copters to get an average. It would be best tested over a lan otherwise it could be down to lag PaDLa yeh your right the British and German armies want to licence it rather than Apaches. Its a way superior weapons platform better all weather performance faster and the only helicopter that comes near it for maneuverability is the Lynx. The only things the apache has going for it are it electronics so just snafle them and get rid of the single rotor stall copters Regards walker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Prof.Wizard 0 Posted July 7, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (walker @ July 07 2002,18<!--emo&)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> The AI winning agianst each other Just proves the AI is set to normal helicopter tactics it says nothing about the ability of the different Helicopters. All it tells you about is the AIPaDLa yeh your right the British and German armies want to licence it rather than Apaches. Its a way superior weapons platform better all weather performance faster and the only helicopter that comes near it for maneuverability is the Lynx.<span id='postcolor'> Do you know anything about objective testing? Here's what I did: -Two helicopters AI-manned, me on the ground as GI. -Both had waypoint set on one another with mission "SEEK & DESTROY". I don't care how the AI mans the V-80. The fact of the matter is that it lost 8 times on 8 tries against the Apache. Oh, I really like the Ka-50 and I too believe its the meanest heli for the time being. But it IS overwhelming for its pilot. That's why Russians developed the Ka-52 (or 2-pilot Hokum) and the Israelis the Ka-50-2 Erdogan which has two men (pilot/gunner) sitting in tandem. PS. We agree, we just don't know it... Regards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
walker 0 Posted July 7, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Do you know anything about objective testing?<span id='postcolor'> Yeh I am an analyst programer  I also no about the falicy of objective testing Your objective test is skewed towards whatever the AI does It only tests the AI. I reiterate </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The AI winning agianst each other Just proves the AI is set to normal helicopter tactics it says nothing about the ability of the different Helicopters. All it tells you about is the AI<span id='postcolor'> Does not matter how many times you test it  8 times or 8000 your still testing the AI not the Copter. If there was an AI version made for the Hokum and the Apache had to fly with that it still would not tell us anything about the copter It would only tell us about the AI. If there was an AI version made for the Hokum and the Hokum had to fly with that and the Apache flew with a AI set up for the Apache, it still would not tell us anything about the copter; it would only tell us about the AI. Human pilots swapping as i said would be the best test method. Yeh we are both agreed on the relative merrits of the copters in real life but is either of us a pilot? Well I am not. I can only go on the reports from pilots and the specifications of the copters in the public domain. I have a few definite opinions though contra rotating fans mean you dont stall to one side as you speed up so you can fly faster. It also means you gun platform is more stable as the pilot and systems aren't having to compensate for the loss of lift to one side of the copter. You dont have that kludge of a tail fan to worry about turning you copter into high speed merry go round either. PS. We agree, we just don't know it...  Regards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Prof.Wizard 0 Posted July 7, 2002 Human players are NOT an objective method cause NO two pilots are the same. Your catch-22 situation about testing the AI and not the helicopter is unstable too. The AI flies the copters at their best of their capabilities (according to parameters given by the game designer which come close to the real specifications of the copter)... the reason the Hokum went down in flames in my testing wasn't tied to the fact it was less manueverable or less armed... it was because of its inability to score a hit onto the Apache most of times. To hit the Apache the Hokum had to move its axis to face the Apache... instead the Apache had only to fly fast and evading... even at 45-60 degree angles the Apache's flexible turret-mounted machine gun was able to hit the Hokum. One pass. Two passes... and it was just too much for the Hokum. PS. I'm not debating here the air-to-ground and manuevering capabilities of the Hokum which are impeccable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zverushka 0 Posted July 7, 2002 Basically, it is impossible to get an exact way to record if the Apache or Hokum is better. It's impossible, simple? You can get an approximate estimate with two different human players, but it would not work as well with AI. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eviscerator 0 Posted July 8, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Prof.Wizard @ July 07 2002,21:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ July 07 2002,21:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well the hokum in game wont attack other helicopters in the air when it is controlled by ai, thats why it loses.<span id='postcolor'> I read this too in another thread. Are you sure it won't attack an air target if I place its Waypoint on the other target with the "DESTROY" command?! I think it attacks. At least, it showed like it attacked from the ground while I was watching the "dogfight"...<span id='postcolor'> heh actually you read it in this thread Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paratrooper 0 Posted July 8, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (TopCover @ July 08 2002,03:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">thats all nice, esteemed people, but the 1000 dollar question is: If and when the kamov pilot ejects, do explosive bolts get rid of the rotorblades and would the evacutionprocedure be executed by means of an UPward firing ejectionseat? (to my knowledge the first and still only chopper ever with this feature) Personally i always thought that this is, by far, the coolest feature of the werewolf. You get shot down and you still look the bussiness..... TopCover out.<span id='postcolor'> It does in reality, but not in the game unfortunatley... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Exodist 1 Posted July 8, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ July 08 2002,05:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Eviserator is making a better version. The manuverablity is very good for me.<span id='postcolor'> 1) It's UNofficial.... 2) In real KA-50 have bettter manuverablity in all combat chopper ... There BIG demonstration of manuverablity http://www.brazd.ru/video/russia/ka50_24.avi - part 1 http://www.brazd.ru/video/russia/ka50_25.avi - part 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eviscerator 0 Posted July 8, 2002 im not sure how bis have coded the a10 ejection seat i cant find anything about it in the config... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
