Ukraine General

[Tonci87 163]

IMHO all governments should keep their filthy hands away from the internet. However a closed off, seperate state controled internet is the absolutely worst thing you can get. Just look at the chinese and how happy they are with it. Will you still be happy if one day your president decides to take down the internet or deploy some really heavy filters? You might not be able to read this page here since BI is somewhat affiliated with BIS and they are affiliated with western militarys.

[arttem 1]

IMHO all governments should keep their filthy hands away from the internet. However a closed off, seperate state controled internet is the absolutely worst thing you can get. Just look at the chinese and how happy they are with it. Will you still be happy if one day your president decides to take down the internet or deploy some really heavy filters? You might not be able to read this page here since BI is somewhat affiliated with BIS and they are affiliated with western militarys.

You specialy don't read what i'm posting? No problem, it's your right.

<Only we have to make sure we do not have any excesses here; we should not impose any bans.>

[Tonci87 163]

You specialy don't read what i'm posting? No problem, it's your right.

Yeah I´ve read it, but the chinese were using the same arguments as he does and he did little so far to prove that he isn´t a powercrazy controlfreak.

[arttem 1]

Not directly related, but somehow important to see the nature of some of the characters:

Not directly related to your post. :)

"he was beaten, blindfolded and hands tied at first, but then treated well"

After one hour from release. Beated Simon so beated.

[mistyronin 1181]

"he was beaten, blindfolded and hands tied at first, but then treated well"

After one hour from release. Beated Simon so beated.

For now we don't have his personal account of what happened, so we can only speculate, but he could perfectly have been beaten but not in the face.

I've been in a bunch of fights, and almost never been injured in the face ( just a few darkened eyes, a broken tooth, a cut from my right ear to my mouth and a deep cut in my chin ).

Edited April 25, 2014 by MistyRonin

[Tonci87 163]

Well I´m looking forward to the next dispatch. Do you think he was able to film inside?

[mistyronin 1181]

( RT ) Series of explosions rock Kramatorsk airfield in eastern Ukraine

An Mi-8 airplane has exploded at Kramatorsk airfield, with no victims reported. A pilot managed to jump [from the plane],†Dmitry Tyimchyuk, the head of the Center for War-Political Investigations told Kramatorsk.info news, “The preliminary theory is that the airplane caught fire during a warm-up before a flight.

As far as I know the Mi8 is a helo, but if RT says that is a plane...

Well I´m looking forward to the next dispatch. Do you think he was able to film inside?

Unlikely, probably his equipment was taken or broken.

[Tonci87 163]

Old Equipment, not maintained properly for a long time :j:

[mistyronin 1181]

The clashes go West:

( The Guardian ) Explosion injures several at pro-Ukraine checkpoint near Odessa

Seven people were injured overnight at a pro-Ukrainian checkpoint near Ukraine's Black Sea port of Odessa when an explosive device blew up, local police said.

Residents in the town have built several checkpoints near the town aimed at stopping pro-Russian separatists entering from Moldova's breakaway territory of Transdniestria.

"It was an explosive device. It happened at around 4am at a checkpoint set up by a local self-defence organisation," said a regional police spokesman.

Interfax news agency quoted witnesses as saying a bomb was thrown at the checkpoint from a passing car, though this was not confirmed by police.

---------- Post added at 13:32 ---------- Previous post was at 13:27 ----------

( The Guardian ) Russia wants to start third world war, says Ukraine

Prime minister Arseny Yatseniuk accuses Moscow of acting like a gangster by aiming to occupy Ukraine 'militarily and politically'

---------- Post added at 13:34 ---------- Previous post was at 13:32 ----------

Looks like CBC guys think "separatists capital" Donetsk is much safest place to be now in Ukraine. Well, hard to blame them...

RT doesn't think the same. :rolleyes:

( RT ) Russian news crew 'attacked and abducted' by 30 masked men in Donetsk

[arttem 1]

The clashes go West:

( The Guardian ) Explosion injures several at pro-Ukraine checkpoint near Odessa

..."It was an explosive device. It happened at around 4am at a checkpoint set up by a local self-defence organisation," said a regional police spokesman...

Aha. Yeap. Self-defence. :)

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?173470-Ukraine-General&p=2674605&viewfull=1#post2674605

[mistyronin 1181]

Aha. Yeap. Self-defence. :)

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?173470-Ukraine-General&p=2674605&viewfull=1#post2674605

It was the Local Police who said it. I still think, as I said previously in other posts, that any kind of armed civilians must be unarmed, no matter what side.

Only official forces ( Police & Army ) should bear weapons, unless they started a genocide then people should be able to defense ( but that hasn't happened yet ).

[arttem 1]

It was the Local Police who said it. I still think, as I said previously in other posts, that any kind of armed civilians must be unarmed, no matter what side.

Only official forces ( Police & Army ) should bear weapons, unless they started a genocide then people should be able to defense ( but that hasn't happened yet ).

And it was made in Crimea. Fast, clear and polite. Yes, yes i know it was international break of the law. We are bloody agressors. And other bad things. But Crimea was open for anybody all the time. Simon was working there without problems. And i repeat there was 600 international reportes from all over the world. And only Simon was posting info about. And where was others i wanna to ask? Ooooh, referendum was going not by way that you need? So if it goes wrong way it not interesting for CNN and BBC, okay... But sorry guys no blood, no victims. If you need blood in reports - moar, moAR, MOAR - it's not our problems. To be honest. Referendum was going quite and peacefully. Now people who was against it or was refusing it, absolutely free refuse Russian citizenship, it doesn't mean that they now will be kicked off from that territory.

P.S. It wasn't addressed personally to you Misty.

Edited April 25, 2014 by ArtTem

[mistyronin 1181]

And it was made in Crimea. Fast, clear and polite. Yes, yes i know it was international break of the law. We are bloody agressors. And other bad things. But Crimea was open for anybody all the time. Simon was working there without problems. And i repeat there was 600 international reportes from all over the world. And only Simon was posting info about.

On one side, it's true that the Crimean invasion by Russian Forces was almost bloodless and if you want "clean" ( I already praised the self control and discipline of the Russian invaders ).

But that a crime is done in a nice and polite way doesn't change much the fact that is a crime ( you could ask to any woman that was raped "in a polite manner" ). The fake referendum has already been considerate invalid and illegal by most of the world countries in the UN.

I'd support, as I said previously a hundred times, a real free and clean referendum in Crimea and in Eastern Ukraine ( with the UN observers from all over the World as warranty ). But seems that Putin was afraid of losing them, as he preferred to use military force and control the vote.

The BBC had quite much a wide coverage of the Crimean invasion, same with The Guardian, Le Monde, etc. About the US media, I don't use to read them much, as to me the only worth newspapers there, are the Washington Post and the New York Times. Obviously sensationalist media prefer blood, as it sells more.

IMOs more journalists like Simon would be good for the world journalism.

Edited April 25, 2014 by MistyRonin

[ProfTournesol 956]

On one side, it's true that the Crimean invasion by Russian Forces was almost bloodless and if you want "clean" ( I already praised the self control and discipline of the Russian invaders ).

I'd say the most disciplined were the Ukrainian soldiers, surrounded, humiliated, sometimes abandoned by their officiers, and who avoided at all costs any blood bath.

[arttem 1]

On one side, it's true that the Crimean invasion by Russian Forces was almost bloodless and if you want "clean" ( I already praised the self control and discipline of the Russian invaders ).

But that a crime is done in a nice and polite way doesn't change much the fact that is a crime ( you could ask to any woman that was raped "in a polite manner" ). The fake referendum has already been considerate invalid and illegal by most of the world countries in the UN.

I'd support, as I said previously a hundred times, a real free and clean referendum in Crimea and in Eastern Ukraine ( with the UN observers from all over the World as warranty ). But seems that Putin was afraid of losing them, as he preferred to use military force and control the vote.

The BBC had quite much a wide coverage of the Crimean invasion, same with The Guardian, Le Monde, etc. About the US media, I don't use to read them much, as to me the only worth newspapers there, are the Washington Post and the New York Times. Obviously sensationalist media prefer blood, as it sells more.

IMOs more journalists like Simon would be good for the world journalism.

It's very sad, but you will be waiting UN there for the end of the world days. Like we was waiting UN and OBSE in Crimea. Our information and vision how UN works is absolutely different. I know your point of view in that question. And respect it. But ok. Let's just wait for news.

Just a remark.

(ITAR-TASS)The Russian foreign Ministry calls on the OSCE leadership to take part in the observation of the referendum in the Crimea.

http://itar-tass.com/politika/1045309

Edited April 25, 2014 by ArtTem

[mistyronin 1181]

Simon account of what happened to him:

( Vice News ) ‘I Had It Pretty Easy, Because I Was Let Go’: Simon Ostrovsky On His Detention in Sloviansk

On Thursday, armed gunmen who held me prisoner for four nights and three days released me into the streets of Sloviansk, in eastern Ukraine. My release was as unexplained as my capture.

On Monday night I was pulled out of a car at a checkpoint, then blindfolded, beaten, and tied up with tape. After spending hours alone on the floor of a damp cell with my hands tied behind my back and a hat pulled over my eyes, I was led into a room where I was accused of working for the CIA, FBI, and Right Sector, the Ukrainian ultra-nationalist group.

When I refused to give the password to my laptop, I was smacked in the arm with a truncheon. When I was asleep on the floor, masked men came to wake me up and tell me how no one would miss me if I died, and then kicked me in the ribs as they left.

But as it turns out, I had it pretty easy, because I was let go.

In the four nights that I was held captive, a dozen other nameless detainees were ferried in and out of the cellar of the Ukraine state security (SBU) building by the pro-Russia militants who had taken it over. Some were journalists, some were drunks, and others were Ukrainian activists stupid or brave enough to visit what’s become a stronghold for Russian nationalists within Ukraine.

Edited April 25, 2014 by MistyRonin

[arttem 1]

Simon account of what happened to him:

( Vice News ) ‘I Had It Pretty Easy, Because I Was Let Go’: Simon Ostrovsky On His Detention in Sloviansk

Yeah. Like i thought. That's why i'm telling that Putin now in trap without his desire. It's an absolutely chaotic and uncontrollable group of separatists. And as i see in different sources, they calling and calling: Kremlin, Putin, God for help. But only the silence is the answer.

[ProfTournesol 956]

I can't believe that FSB cannot do anything about it :)

[Tonci87 163]

Just a glimpse at stuff on the russian side of the border

Does this still qualify as regular exercise?

[arttem 1]

I can't believe that FSB cannot do anything about it :)

Remark - GRU. FSB work mainly on internal tasks.

Yes they can. But it's a not Arma. You can't react fast on everything, just because you see bad picture on TV. Kremlin keep silence. I guess they now think very hard about that problem and what to do. If you use GRU operatives to kill heads of separatists, who gives you a guaranty that situation didn't go deeper in bad meaning?

Like Churkin said ones: ... I'm telling him, give me proofs. And he gives me link to internet site. Shit, they are kidding? And it was big official. With whom we are dealing?.... :)

Edited April 26, 2014 by ArtTem

[ProfTournesol 956]

It's true that it's sometimes hard to stop a fire that you have started and fueled.

[arttem 1]

It's true that it's sometimes hard to stop a fire that you have started and fueled.

/wonder/ How Maidan belongs to Russia? But, yes, i see it's a new course of west media. Let's say trend. :)

[ProfTournesol 956]

I'm not naive enough to believe that what happened in eastern Ukraine - exactly simultaneously with what happened in Crimea - was 100% spontaneous. And give me a break with "western media", i'm 44 and able to think on my own.

[arttem 1]

I'm not naive enough to believe that what happened in eastern Ukraine - exactly simultaneously with what happened in Crimea - was 100% spontaneous.

It's absolutely logical. Yes they see the Crimea, they see Aksenov in Kremlin. And want the same. But.

1. If you are so Russian go to Crimea. And live there in happiness.

2. If you don't want go to Crimea or to Russia, switch on your brains and look careful whom you choose as the head of your region or social minority/majority.

Remark about point 1.

It's more effective for Ukrainian Russian (if he feels himself Russian) go to Crimea. And not to stay in Ukraine. Because in any version of situaion final, Russian in Crimea will have:

- lump-sum benefit for first child birth 400$;

- 12000$ payment for the birth of second child (me and my wife used that moneys when we was buying second flat);

- monthly payment to care for children 100$;

- monthly payment to care for second and subsequent children 200$;

- minimal retirement pension ~300-400$ (Ukraine ~150-200$), but it's a minimal, for example retired Rus army mens have 520-650$ per month (officers have much more);

- if you are young Russian and wanna go to Army, minimal salary for soldier is 1000$ without benefits. (Ukraine 200$);

I realy can't understand them. If you are so Russian, that you can't sleep calm, go to Crimea (not to Russia). Because prices for flats lower in Crimea in compare to Russia mainland. :):):) And soon, very soon, prices for flats and houses in Crimea will rise in to the sky. :/ So, they have some time to react and make some good buisness. :)

Edited April 25, 2014 by ArtTem

[mistyronin 1181]

( BBC ) 'International monitors seized' in Sloviansk

On Friday, Ukraine's interior ministry said armed separatists had seized seven representatives from the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), as well as five Ukrainian army personnel and a bus driver.

The German foreign ministry confirmed 13 people had been detained.

( The Guardian ) Ukraine pro-Russian separatists hold European military observers captive