Please add fog vision to enemy GameMaster in Zeus!!

[Japo32 17]

Hello!

I Have been watching the features and video presentation of Zeus. It is GREAT! but I miss something that maybe is already think to include.. but I didn't see.

The fog vision of enemies movements.

Imagine we are 20 preople that want to make a cooperative mission against the AI. Ok.. And there is another human player that takes the Game Master as general of the AI. If he can see all our movements then he is in a really clear advantage managing his units.

The idea is to make like a real time strategic game, so the enemy game master could manage better the AI troups he has.. BUT he could not see our position until his units can see us.. so, our 20 players could appear in his vision only when his AI troups would watch us.

That would give us a great battle experience with the best AI we could have. The human one.. BUT the game master would not be God. Just a general.

Please include that. Of course as an option to activate or not.

Thanks!

[djotacon 190]

Not required.

Only needs to limit the movement of the camera to the viewing distance of the troops.

By the way the game already has fog.

The aim of the module is to create roleplaying D & D style not to do a strategy game in real time.

For that there are other much more powerful and designed for that module.

see this video ->

__________________________________________________________________________________

Spanish translation:

No es necesario.

Solo se necesita limitar el movimiento de camara a la distancia de visión de las tropas.

Por cierto el juego ya tiene niebla.

El objetivo del modulo es crear partidas de rol al estilo D&D no hacer un juego de estrategia en tiempo real.

Para eso hay otros modulos mucho mas potentes y diseñados para eso.

pd.- tus videos de partidas son muy largos, acorta las caminatas y ponles algo de musiquita.

[moricky 211]

There's possibility to limit Zeus camera movement - mission designer can choose to restrict it to specific area and height (see addCuratorCameraArea)

[djotacon 190]

Isn't the problem.

If we have a GM vs GM scenario the enemy GM can see the your own troops and position.

To make a GM vs GM mission we need dinamic camera movement restrict to a distance to see the enemy scout position (or relative position), add to this we need restrict the "powers" of the both GM or we have a "deus irae" gameplay with a lot of rays.

And.. I ask something more:

To make the this game mode a full GM mode is necessary make roll dice and impersonate system for the GM. - I put this in the "whishes" thread -. There's similar sandbox maps with some of this features (roll dice).

[iconoclastdx 5]

Please include some kind of GM units restricted fog of war!

Restricting camera movement and editable area to each unit seems unsatisfactory. Primarily because this doesn't capture what the units know about. Plus, Zeus has a number of great graphical features which could be put to good use once an enemy unit is revealed. And saying that zeus was designed merely to create a roleplaying gametype and not an adversarial one is a bit presumptuous. Arma at its core is adversarial and zeus could definitely be used in that way. Frankly, I thinks its rather dull to play "against" a GM that has all knowledge and power and could defeat the players at any moment. To "win" in such a situation is hollow at best when your adversary lets you win. Cinematic or not.

[Japo32 17]

That high command doesn't substitute what I want. I know exactly what I want.. and is that... with the "fog of war" (nothing to do with the fog of the game) the game would be like a strategic one.. yes.. I know that.. BUT that is what I would like to see. That way a bunch of people would make cooperative missions against an AI, that this time would not managed totally by the computer, BUT by a human.. that is totally more intelligent than any computer (well.. sometimes... :P).

But the "fog of war" would make the adversary more real. The enemy wouldn't see like a god.

And of course that would be an option to activate or not, for people that don't like it. And really I think it is really easy to implement! of course I am not talking of creating a continuous fog (visually) but make us (the players) disappears from his eyes in the map until his AI units spot us. No graphical fog as I said (that can be included in the battle landscape as an option, of course).

[Lucasmnunesk 2]

I new to scripting but i believe it can be accomplished with some commands like lineIntersects and knowsAbout, but i'm not sure since i'm new to scripting and i get confused with arrays, maybe when zeus reach stable branch i could try script this. But you could try looking for yourself and see what you can achieve.

For hiding the units the command should be hideObject it runs locally.

I don't play on devbranch but if it isn't developed when Zeus reach stable branch, i'll try it.

[lev 21]

Not required.

Only needs to limit the movement of the camera to the viewing distance of the troops.

By the way the game already has fog.

The aim of the module is to create roleplaying D & D style not to do a strategy game in real time.

For that there are other much more powerful and designed for that module.

see this video ->

__________________________________________________________________________________

Spanish translation:

No es necesario.

Solo se necesita limitar el movimiento de camara a la distancia de visión de las tropas.

Por cierto el juego ya tiene niebla.

El objetivo del modulo es crear partidas de rol al estilo D&D no hacer un juego de estrategia en tiempo real.

Para eso hay otros modulos mucho mas potentes y diseñados para eso.

pd.- tus videos de partidas son muy largos, acorta las caminatas y ponles algo de musiquita.

And why would this feature not be required? I can imagine tons of things that can be done with this even in the context of a D&D gameplay mode. Not to mention it would be awesome for those modders who want to make an RTS mode for A3.

Have you watched the video you linked to? That is the High Command Module and it doesn't represent any aspect of what the OP is asking for.

Limiting the requested functionality only cripples the Zeus game mode before it even has a chance to take off. Don't limit your imagination because the devs mentioned it was made to be a D&D gameplay mode. Great things came to Arma because modders pushed the boundaries of what was possible and created great new things for us to enjoy. If you don't want to use the type of functionality requested, that is fine but don't try to keep it out just because you can't think of ways to use it. We have tons of talented and imaginative contributors in the Arma community that could take that feature and bring us innovative gameplay and would love to use that.

In fact I've personally been struggling with this feature even within the context of the High Command Module and would be great if the devs could just natively implement a function to take care of that.

[djotacon 190]

Is not necessary.

The fog of war was used in older computers to hide units and because the memory was reduced.

Now to limit the scope of the camera view of the troops and not draw enemy troops is sufficient and more effective resource.

That's how it is now done in the game of modern real-time strategy.

"Have you watched the video you linked to? That is the High Command Module and it doesn't represent any aspect of what the OP is asking for."

Well, I think so otherwise.

This module (high command ) is specifically designed to provide those specific needs.

Here we are not talking about limiting anything.

But that in my opinion there is already such functionality.

In any case the module will be open to programming so you can make a custom strategy game you own.

Also this game has volumetric fog adapted to the contour of the land.

We'd have to see if other unnecessary for a game of modern strategy has a negative impact on performance.

Edited February 18, 2014 by djotacon

[Japo32 17]

Of course I am not saying that the fog of war has to come as a real volumetric fog fx. No no!! that would be worst for performance. I am saying that the Game master could see everything in the map, but not the enemy troups (us playing) when his units don't see us. Just that.

And I think is necesary because I want that feature inside the functions and 3D environment that is in Zeus. If some people don't want to use it, then just deactivate it. Easy. All happy. For me is necesary.. For you djotacon, no. I respect that.. but please respect my opinion. In the high command video I don't see the same features. Similar but I would loose the 3D environment and features in Zeus... and I wouldn't like that.

Hope Bohemia think to include in Zeus.

Thanks!

[djotacon 190]

It is not about respect or opinions.

Basically the fog of war no longer used. The modern games no longer use those thing. The games now have free camera and enemy units are not drawn.

Simply we have a free camera but the enemy is drawn up within sight.

And ask for the module in order to convert a war game having a module dedicated to it is superfluous for me.

I've seen some of your videos asking things like change the login the game and now this.

I think you have some time with the game and hence these requests.

And I would like to add that this is a forum and people can have opinions different from yours and has nothing to do with respect, honesty or any other moral value.

Edited February 19, 2014 by djotacon

[iconoclastdx 5]

Wow, you really have it in for this feature. Has a fog-of-war implementation taken advantage of you in the past? If so, my regrets. We've always enjoyed such features for numerous reasons and are simply lobbying the devs to consider its implementation. Savvy?

[Japo32 17]

It is not about respect or opinions.

Basically the fog of war no longer used. The modern games no longer use those thing. The games now have free camera and enemy units are not drawn.

Simply we have a free camera but the enemy is drawn up within sight.

And ask for the module in order to convert a war game having a module dedicated to it is superfluous for me.

I've seen some of your videos asking things like change the login the game and now this.

I think you have some time with the game and hence these requests.

And I would like to add that this is a forum and people can have opinions different from yours and has nothing to do with respect, honesty or any other moral value.

What videos are you talking about? I think you are mistaken with another person. i make videos of Arma.. but in spanish.. and are only playing them.

I don't care if it is called fog of war or hidding the enemy. What I prettend is just don't let have all the vision to the game master enemy person playing. I think there was a misunderstood with the language barrier.

[edfathead 10]

Defiantly Would be a major bonus to not be able to see the enemy's positions in ZUES. I like to add Zues to my ALIVE games and use it to call in reinforcements from the edge of map. The trouble is As Japo points out, it instantly destroys emersion when you see every enemy position. just a drop down box Blufor, Opfor, Ind, Civ, Animals & All. Easy, In theory.

[Magirot 14]

Is not necessary.

The fog of war was used in older computers to hide units and because the memory was reduced.

You do realise that even very recent games like XCOM: Enemy Unknown (2012) employ fog of war? That is because it is a very important strategical element not to see into areas where you do not have units present. In Arma 3, even if you restrict the camera, unit spotting does not factor into the system.

Well, I guess this is due to misunderstanding that fog of war would need to be literal fog, as said previously.

Edit: welp, didn't notice the thread was quite old.