GEOLOD compromises..?

[meshcarver 12]

Hey all,

In making my geolod for a house, it seems to be that I have to compromise between making (geolod)walls thicker so your unit can't "step" through them and not too thick because if you throw a grenade say, it'll hit that invisible geolod thick wall?

Is there any way around this apart from mod maker discretion please..!?

It's very limiting if this is the case...

Edited October 5, 2013 by meshcarver

[Sealife 22]

grenade hit is FireGeometry and collision for units is Geometry Lod so there seperate , the Material you place on the Fire geo lod will help stop the Nade going through too but the thickness shouldnt matter beyond 0.1 and cant see your hose being thinner than 10cm ?

also dont forget Phyx lods are not present yet ,my understanding is that Buildings will need one because currently the skids on a helicopter do not recognise roadway lods and sink through roofs of the buildings i have tried so far

[meshcarver 12]

Hi,

Just done a test were I threw a grenade and it collided with the geolod, not the firelod. :(

[[aps]gnat 28]

Hi,

Just done a test were I threw a grenade and it collided with the geolod, not the firelod. :(

??

Object to object collisions = geolod

Fired projectiles = firelod

[meshcarver 12]

I throw a hand grenade/smoke grenade and it bounces off GEOLOD.

I shoot GEOLOD with rifle and the bullet goes though like nothing is there.

I shoot FIRELOD with rifle and it hits correct.

For some reason, thrown grenades "connect" with GEOLODs and bounce off them etc..?

Are thrown hand grenades classed as object to object collision..?

From Mondkalbs addon tut:

"This LOD is responsible for the simulation of projectile hits. If you don't create it, Arma 2 will use the Geolod for this, but no bulletholes will be displayed."

Maybe grenades are not classed as projectiles?

If so, it's a world of pain setting a model up...

Can confirm this now.

After multiple tests, bullets and grenade LAUNCHERS mounted under guns do NOT collide with GEOLOD, but HAND THROWN GRENADES DO.

Edited October 5, 2013 by meshcarver

[Sealife 22]

again its possible now that Grenades interact with a Phsx Lod that we cant yet add to buildings that would be my own guess , i havent come across the problem you are having when i have a FireGeo and Geo lod but i dont confess to have tested purposely.

of course Mass of the Geolod may count too

As for Mondkalns tute i think that was A2 rules with No Physx involved , did you try driving a Physx vehicle at your buildings yet like a tnak ? does it collide ?

[meshcarver 12]

Hi Sealife,

Thanks for your ongoing input- this issue is very problematic.

I have a lot of walls with small holes I'd like to be able to throw grenades out of but because of them hitting Geolod it looks like they hit air and bounce back! :(

This, compounded by the fact it's recommended all geolod are at least 0:5 meters thick makes it even worse..!

Such a pain in the arse this stuff... Stops you from getting on with the real job at hand...

[[aps]gnat 28]

Maybe grenades are not classed as projectiles?

Grenades are NOT projectiles

A grenade is just an object

Exactly what is meant to happen, is happening.

[Sealife 22]

im sure there is easy explanation :)

As always the best thing to do is find Bis equivalent building and see if same problem exists , sometimes O2 can report convexity is ok when it is actually too complex

first check your Binarisation Logs for such convexity problems

second make sure ther actuall is an hole

third up the Mass of the building then check firelod is correct and also same convexity problems dont exist

then check obviously materials on the holes if the exist that the friction restitution density etc are correct if you have indeed any on there at all

generally speaking the FIre lod is exact copy of GeoLOD so its not big issue if you decided to go the Mondkalbs way , even roadway lods can stop bullets too IIRC

maybe if post picture of Geo Lod and also what is your Inheritance like in config ?

dont forget Buildings have hitpoints these have armor and animation sources etc , not sure how complexy your building is of course

As gnat says , it seems everything you report is what is expected

Edited October 5, 2013 by Sealife

[meshcarver 12]

Gnat;2526394']Grenades are NOT projectiles

A grenade is just an object

Exactly what is meant to happen' date=' is happening.[/quote']

Well that is a bit of a problem.

If grenades are meant to bounce/collide off Geolods, and Geolods have to be at least 0:5 thick wall wise for units to not glitch through or get stuck, then when you throw a grenade out a window say, it sometimes catches the edges of the uber thick invisible Geolod...

I got that 0:5 minimum thickness from the LODs wiki btw.

Also, Sealife, here you go mate, obviously the red cube firelod is that shape for testing purposes, the actual one is almost same as geolod, it's justvthe firelod wall parts ate thinner:

http://http://www.meshcarver.com/screenshots/lod.jpg

Edited October 5, 2013 by meshcarver

[Sealife 22]

Hmm the roof slates are very thin and complex for geolod do you get any complaints in Binpbo log

normally Geolod is not so complex that look more like a fre geo to me

[meshcarver 12]

Hi,

No, there's no complaints at all in the log mate.

How would one do the Geolod for the roof then please? It has a lot of planks and holes in it as you can see here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/86890612@N02/9448306423/

So what do I need to do to make it a correct Geolod?

My main problem is that if I just put a large thick Geolod box on the roof, then when you try to throw grenades into or out of the holes, they'll bounce off the invisible Geolod...

I should point out that this is ONLY a problem just because of the throwing grenades issue.

Without that, it's working great.

But, it looks/feels REALLY bad when a grenade bounces back off thin air in the middle of a hole.

---------- Post added at 08:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:00 PM ----------

...after some more testing, the way to think about this then is that:

GEOLODS and ROADWAYLODS block/stop/collide with grenades etc.

It would be so much simpler/convenient if grenades were ONLY affected by FIRELODS... damn...bugger...pants...trousers...bummer...poo.

Edited October 5, 2013 by meshcarver

[Sealife 22]

Exactly :)

in addition about the compexity also , its not good to havbe the components embeded or passing through one another , those planks should be simple boxes on the end not pass right through the larger sections , also with geo you have to make some compromise and maybe not be so precise .

I`m sure we all so sometimes where the object pass through the more finite render detail , that piece is all about saving of the poly and complexity vs gamepaly of course and is down to the individual addon maker.

[meshcarver 12]

Aye mate, I've already gotten a much more thicker and simpler GEOLOD into it instead.

Works better and I can forgive myself the little "inconsistencies" that's created but hey ho- there's only so much you can do with the tools at hand hey..? ;)

I think from now on too, I'll give myself a "minimum room size" in general to stick to, as the thicker GEOLOD walls certainly "shrink" the size of the room in a way...

Also, a little grip is even when I now have my GEOLOD walls 0:5 meters thick, when you "V"/"Step Over" anim against it the unit STILL visually pops outside the wall even though he can't get there. Pretty bad bit of collision programming that I think..?

Either way, this is much more streamlined and better now Sealife and THANK YOU for your help mate..! ;)

[Sealife 22]

the V thing is a complete travesty yes but i guess , they prioritise for now (hopefully) , is it a mistake some try to stepover a solid wall they probably think in the hierarchy of debugging.

I believe its probably to do with Keyframe animation and collisionvertex model for that stance or something that cause it , but i am never shocked with this Engine :).

best thing is to remember Paths for Ai as these Ai will walk exact to them wheter wall in way or not IIRC so make sure they are accurate too if you plan for AI style gameplay.

[m1lkm8n 411]

By .5 I'm assuming you mean 1/2 a meter thick. I have create a few garage doors for some of the buildings we use and the geolod for those is pretty thin and they work fine. I don't see why you can create individual slats for the roof geo and fire lod and have the grenade pass through there.

[meshcarver 12]

Its all the little "unknown"/"glitchy" things like this that are NOT set in stone that really stop this game from being truly great.

I've even V/stepped through buildings in Altis and Stratis... Try it!

You can create nice fine Reslod, but Geolod has to blanket it so thickly it loses its intricacy and practical purpose, ie; throwing grenades through small gaps etc...

Edited October 5, 2013 by meshcarver

[[aps]gnat 28]

It would be so much simpler/convenient if grenades were ONLY affected by FIRELODS...

What!?? This makes no sense at all.

This is not a bug

What you are wanting is BI to BREAK the physics of the game

A grenade is an object like any other object in the game. When thrown it should bounce off walls, the ground, doors, vehicles etc.

[meshcarver 12]

Gnat;2527098']What!?? This makes no sense at all.

This is not a bug

What you are wanting is BI to BREAK the physics of the game

A grenade is an object like any other object in the game. When thrown it should bounce off walls' date=' the ground, doors, vehicles etc.[/quote']

Hi Gnat,

First, thanks for your feedback mate.

The main reason I think it's a bit difficult to bear in mind gaps/holes/slats etc for objects/grenades when putting in Geolods is because if I have a 5/10 cms thick wooden looking Reslod wall, then the Geolod over that would ideally have to be almost 5 times as thick for it to work properly with no chance of glitching through.

Firelod can hug the Reslod, but Geolods have to be like a bouncy castle in effect.

I don't want BI to break the physics of the game.

The physics do need work though- I can step through some walls etc on both stock islands still... Or could two weeks ago, esp those cool looking military outpost towers. You can also find numerous places where you can get your unit to do that strange mid-air shuffle/moonwalk when he gets on top of Geolod with no Raodwaylod- like in some of those cool looking old half destroyed house.

Edited October 6, 2013 by meshcarver

[[aps]gnat 28]

OK, wall glittyness during A3 development I'll give you, certainly happens time to time, but that's not where ArmA2 ended up.

Building an addon to suit current "problems" isn't wise I'd suggest.

[meshcarver 12]

Gnat;2527199']OK' date=' wall glittyness during A3 development I'll give you, certainly happens time to time, but that's not where ArmA2 ended up.

Building an addon to suit current "problems" isn't wise I'd suggest.[/quote']

Hi Gnat,

again, thanks for helping here man. Yes, I'd agree with that as long as it does get fixed.

Do you think it's a good process to just create all these buildings first, then once the glitchyness/problems are sort, THEN start to LOD them up yes?