Cold war

[ran 0]

i'm born in 1966 , i started to be interested by the world around me at 16 , i've lived the end of the cold war like some of you did , i'd like to share my feels about this period with you , and so can you do

it was cold only by its name , this period was one of those wich can decide of the fate of the hummanity

i live in some kind of military familly , a conflict would have surely affected me or my familly , although some of the members of my familly did believe in some aspects communism like almost everybody else but , they didn't want of it in europe , some of them already lived 1 invasion of their country by people who wanted to impose them their own thoughts , almost every evenings , we were talking about the world politic around the table , talking about our interpretations of soviet and usa speeches and different conferences , these talks weren't really biased , but depicted some of our fears , our lives were in the hands of the leaders of two countries who could start a conventionnal or a nuclear war at any moment , my father spent some times in the french sector in berlin , he was officer , the one in the familly who knew the most about strategical interests , but he always feared some unconsidered decision from the superior powers , but what we all feared didn't happen , mainly because of the intelligence of the two block's leaders , but some words in some leader's mouth really could frighten us such as reagan saying that he was protecting us , protection wich could have led to a transformation of the europe into a battle field or worst , into wastelands

many russian leaders were aggressive in their speeches , i think it was some kind of dissuasion method : aggressive in a conference = aggressive on the field for normal people such as me and my parents

the only really important events i've seen were the fall of the berlin's wall and the disintegration of the soviet union

the first one made me fear for the east-german populations , seeing how the red army repressed the "independance movements" like they did in czechoslovakia and hungaria for exemple , but they didn't do so

the implosion of the soviet union made useless all the politic , terrorist etc .. organisations useless , both sides (one unintentionally and the other because it didn't need them anymore) abandonned these groups and guerillas responsible of a fear climate today in some regions of our world

the cold war is a period that changed the face of the world , it shown us the level of power the human being reached , being able to wipe all living species on this planet , it shown us the extremities governements can reach to reach their ends , it shown us how near we were of the annihilation , it shown us the differences between two political , economical and social systems

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

I was born in 86, so I was 5 when it ended, does this count?

[ran 0]

lol ...... not

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Aug. 18 2002,16:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I was born in 86, so I was 5 when it ended, does this count?<span id='postcolor'>

No. You were mostly in training at the time, soldier.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

I thought something was odd.

[ran 0]

allthose who where more than 12 at the end of the cold war i wanna know your thought about it

[theavonlady 2]

It was a very dark spot in what should otherwise have been bright times.

The world was advancing in the sciences, cultural diversion, air and space travel. And there are these two gigantic represive regimes who seemed game on indoctrinating, by force if necessary, whole countries into their sphere of influence and control.

I'm not talking about the US and Russia. I'm talking about China and Russia. When names line Lenin, Marx, even Stalin, Mao and a few other ghosts were worshiped in these countries, you couldn't help but have that feeling that these countries were the evil empires of their times.

The collapse of the "Iron Curtain" was a tremendous miracle. The Soviet Union, as it was until then, just disappeared with the wind.

[Guest]

I was born in 1977, so I was basically only aware of the very last part of the cold war.

@Avon:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It was a very dark spot in what should otherwise have been bright times.

The world was advancing in the sciences, cultural diversion, air and space travel. And there are these two gigantic represive regimes who seemed game on indoctrinating, by force if necessary, whole countries into their sphere of influence and control.<span id='postcolor'>

I think you are making a mistake in separating those two. I think the cold war was one of the motivations for the advances of our civilizations.

I also think that when you look back at it you see that it was inevitable. USA and USSR were very similar in many ways. Both very expansive and imperialistic. Their history after WW2 was very linked and you can see many similarities. The problem was that the world was not big enough for both of them; hence the conflict. In the end the Soviet Union failed, not because of that conflict or because of the imperialistic ideas, but simply because their economic model was defunct from the beginning (plan economy).

[Col. Kurtz 0]

My birth began the beggining of the end. I am the true anti-christ! Anti-Christ, your just a cheap stoined rip off! I am authentic!  As per usaul Denoir is right, in their quest to end communism, the American public and goverment started to become a fascist regime in their own right. LOOK AT HOOVER!(Edgar J.. or J. Edgar....) Half those people wouldnt have got in if they didnt have an anti0communist line, that goes to show most Americans were happy to go on Communist 'whitch hunts' and viewed all Communists as some evil virus, so they were just like the Soiets been taught that all westernt people were rich imperialists that cared nothing for the people. The American Goverments history has as many black spots as any Soviet goverment minus Stalins. All you Americans, you know its true! You  know thta only you can deliver true peace! You must over throw your slef serving leaders! They care for nothing but their realection prospects! The cold war was all about Paranoia. Becasue both sides never knew the truth about each other, and had diffrent beliefs, they always were afraid and distrustful of each other. they saw that the only way to be safe was hide behind a massive nuclear arsenal. Anything the other side said they automaticly discredited! I MUST STOP! I AM 13! I AM GIVING A BIAST VIEW! IT WAS REALLY MY FAULT!

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Aug. 18 2002,09:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I was born in 86, so I was 5 when it ended, does this count? <span id='postcolor'>

Oh this explains alot!

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Aug. 18 2002,10:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm not talking about the US and Russia. I'm talking about China and Russia. When names line Lenin, Marx, even Stalin, Mao and a few other ghosts were worshiped in these countries, you couldn't help but have that feeling that these countries were the evil empires of their times.

The collapse of the "Iron Curtain" was a tremendous miracle. The Soviet Union, as it was until then, just disappeared with the wind.<span id='postcolor'>

Gee I guess the US was just too perfect, had to exclude the truth.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Aug. 18 2002,09:32)

I was born in 86, so I was 5 when it ended, does this count?

Oh this explains alot! <span id='postcolor'>

Whatsoever do you mean?

The U.S. was alot better than teh Soviet Union, they did not allow religous freedom, and that is not something that will work.

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Aug. 18 2002,13:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Aug. 18 2002,09:32)

I was born in 86, so I was 5 when it ended, does this count?

Oh this explains alot! <span id='postcolor'>

Whatsoever do you mean?

The U.S. was alot better than teh Soviet Union, they did not allow religous freedom, and that is not something that will work.<span id='postcolor'>

Oh what can I possibly mean?

Nah, the crisis was between the US and USSR. Don't try to change the past. China simply had it's own issues INSIDE, not really bothering anyone.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

You tell me.

Didn't Russia not allow religon? I do believe I am right, but who knows?

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Aug. 18 2002,13:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You tell me.

Didn't Russia not allow religon? I do believe I am right, but who knows? <span id='postcolor'>

Probably right, but that's not a world crisis. I mean, worse than US or not it was between the 2 of them.

You and religion... boy.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

Wether you are religous are not, you should still believe in religous freedom, and having the goverment as strong as the Soviets did is not good, but the U.S. national goverment may be to strong.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

That aint the reason the Soviet Union collapsed DOR. If the government had kept everyone fed clothed and housed like they promised, then there would still be a Soviet Union today. However, the Soviet government saw it as more important to use all their funds to keep up with America in the arms race, and that strain eventually broke their economy, and then when the illusion that Marxism/Leninism did indeed have the perfect economic model was shattered, the communist state imploded.

You need to learn to stop oversimplifying things, DOR

[Guest]

Officially religion was allowed in the Soviet Union, but it was not supported. Marx said that religion is opium for the people and the Soviets followed that line of thinking. Communism & religion don't mix too well since both are absolutist systems that both claim to represent the 'real' truth.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

Did everybody make the same amount of money?

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Aug. 18 2002,14:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Did everybody make the smae amount of money?<span id='postcolor'>

Where is this going? You know the answer.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Aug. 18 2002,21:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Did everybody make the same amount of money?<span id='postcolor'>

For the answer, read "Animal Farm".

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Hint: All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Aug. 18 2002,20:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Did everybody make the same amount of money?<span id='postcolor'>

No, and that was never the goal either. It is one of the common misconceptions of communism. It was never meant that everybody should get equal pay regarless of their contribution.

The idea behind plan economy (as opposed to market economy) is that you instead of business competing with each other, making the same products, that you plan ahead for what needs to be produced and in what amounts. The benifit of that is that you make more efficient use of the work power. Instead of having 20 producers of shoes you have one and the people that would have worked for the 19 others can do something else. To ensure the quality of the products produced by that one producer the business was government owned and was to work for the benifit of the society and not the individual business owner.

The problem is that while it is in theory a good model it is not very compatible with human nature. We are simply not willing to work as good for the benifit of others as we are for our selves. Another problem is that the society becomes very dependant on the sole producer of each product. If the single shoe producer doesn't manage to meet the demands then you get no shoes. Also it is very hard to predict demands in the future and to adjust the production to fill future needs.

[bn880 5]

Exactomondo, but the benefits when it worked well were pretty high.

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Aug. 18 2002,20:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">4--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Aug. 18 2002,204)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Did everybody make the same amount of money?<span id='postcolor'>

No, and that was never the goal either. It is one of the common misconceptions of communism. It was never meant that everybody should get equal pay regarless of their contribution.

The idea behind plan economy (as opposed to market economy) is that you instead of business competing with each other, making the same products, that you plan ahead for what needs to be produced and in what amounts. The benifit of that is that you make more efficient use of the work power. Instead of having 20 producers of shoes you have one and the people that would have worked for the 19 others can do something else. To ensure the quality of the products produced by that one producer the business was government owned and was to work for the benifit of the society and not the individual business owner.

The problem is that while it is in theory a good model it is not very compatible with human nature. We are simply not willing to work as good for the benifit of others as we are for our selves. Another problem is that the society becomes very dependant on the sole producer of each product. If the single shoe producer doesn't manage to meet the demands then you get no shoes. Also it is very hard to predict demands in the future and to adjust the production to fill future needs.<span id='postcolor'>

the communism is an utopia , and if one day it would ever work correctly , it would rock